[TC] Best M2 Question?

[horaceblegg]

Although the Argon Titan seems to be the most popular- no one even seems to have considered the OTAS Boreas, is it useless or just not worth considering?

[Deadbeat_Spinn]

No it's just overpowered even after getting nerfed. As such many people don't use it.

[EmperorJon]

Yes, everyone consideres it. It was amazingly powerful as it can mount some form of Capital Weapon in EVERY slot. So Egosoft 'nerfed' it. By removing 10,000 laser energy. Real good nerfing there!

I enjoy using the Osaka. Yes, it has 400,000 laser energy and has 12gj of shields, but flying it is still risky. The size and shape of it make you a relatively easy target, it takes days to turn around and can't cover it's rear.

So really it's amazing and not quite overpowered. And a demon to find weapons for.

Many people would also suggest the Boron Ray as a good ship.

Wouldn't go for the Split Python or the Teladi Phoenix to be honest. The Phoenix is slow and underarmed, the Python is fast and well armed, but has low sheilds and CAN'T MOUNT FLAK!



People will also suggest the Akuma and Brigantine, which have low shielding like the Python, however they have good speed, weapons etc.

[Ulan Dhor]

Heh, the Boreas and not worth considering . It's tiny (small target), well armed, well shielded, well... You get the drift.

Wouldn't go for the Split Python or the Teladi Phoenix to be honest. The Phoenix is slow and underarmed, the Python is fast and well armed, but has low sheilds and CAN'T MOUNT FLAK!

You are right about the Python, but allegedly the Phoenix is one of the best M2. OOS it's supposed to be the "last man standing", whereas IS it has another advantage: As it is so huge and the AI calculates distances from and to the center of ships, you can fire your guns long before Betty says that the target is now in firing range, and the opposing ship will not fire back during that time. You might die of old age before you reach the target, though .

[brucewarren]

It's a strange thing but everybody says the Boreas is overpowered and
then explains why their Ray/Osaka etc is a better ship.

Well I'm not giving my Boreas up to anyone.

The only reason I don't fly it all the time is that my Panther is much faster.

One small tip. Don't put it in a wing unless you want to find out the true
meaning of friendly fire.

[Apollo303]

Ok you`ve mentioned the Titan and Boreas, here`s what i put on a different forum thread :-

Argon Titan (M2) Destroyer :

Maximum Speed - 49 m/s
Hull - 500,000
Max Laser Energy - 276,400
Shield Power Generator - 14,400
Maximum Shields - 4x 2GJ
Number Of Turrets - 6
Maximum Cargobay - 10,000
Container Class - XL


OTAS Boreas (M2) Destroyer :

Maximum Speed - 63 m/s
Hull - 400,000
Max Laser Energy - 300,000
Shield Power Generator - 15,840
Maximum Shields - 5x 2GJ
Number Of Turrets - 6
Maximum Cargobay - 8,500
Container Class - XL

I did`nt list the weapons as i saw no point to it as it was a general comapre between the two types of ship, haveing said that, my moneys on the Boreas.... and here`s the stats for the Osaka :-

Terran Osaka (M2) Destroyer :

Maximum Speed - 54 m/s
Hull - 425,000
Max Laser Energy - 450,000
Shield Power Generator - 18,720
Maximum Shields - 6x 2GJ
Number Of Turrets - 6
Maximum Cargobay - 10,000
Container Class - XL

I`ll let you lot decide which be the better of three....

[ogamerdg]

The OSAKAAAAAA

or the VALHALLAAAAA (cheat)

[brucewarren]

With regard to Boreas vs Osaka it's never quite that simple.

The Osaka has more shields, better generaters and packs SSC instead of
flak weapons. SSC owns Flaks and there are more weapons ports you can
put them on.

Whiles its extra cargo space looks better on paper it needs it because
PSPs take up twice the space of PPC. (Its ATF brother the TYR is crippled
for want of space to put the guns in)

Both ships can pack 24 heavy guns on front and sides, although the
Boreas can also pack some on the back at the cost of flak coverage.

It terms of anti-capital clobbering power it depends on whether you
consider PPC or PSP the better gun. I personally prefer PPC but some
folk like to charge up a PSP and let fly.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Ok you`ve mentioned the Titan and Boreas, here`s what i put on a different forum thread :-

Argon Titan (M2) Destroyer :

Maximum Speed - 49 m/s
Hull - 500,000
Max Laser Energy - 276,400
Shield Power Generator - 14,400
Maximum Shields - 4x 2GJ
Number Of Turrets - 6
Maximum Cargobay - 10,000
Container Class - XL


OTAS Boreas (M2) Destroyer :

Maximum Speed - 63 m/s
Hull - 400,000
Max Laser Energy - 300,000
Shield Power Generator - 15,840
Maximum Shields - 5x 2GJ
Number Of Turrets - 6
Maximum Cargobay - 8,500
Container Class - XL

I did`nt list the weapons as i saw no point to it as it was a general comapre between the two types of ship, haveing said that, my moneys on the Boreas.... and here`s the stats for the Osaka :-

Terran Osaka (M2) Destroyer :

Maximum Speed - 54 m/s
Hull - 425,000
Max Laser Energy - 450,000
Shield Power Generator - 18,720
Maximum Shields - 6x 2GJ
Number Of Turrets - 6
Maximum Cargobay - 10,000
Container Class - XL

I`ll let you lot decide which be the better of three....

You neglected to mention the Laser Energy Recharge...

• Titan: 4142 (enough for continuous fire of ~9.86 PPCs)
  Boreas: 4500 (enough for continuous fire of ~10.71 PPCs)
  Osaka: 9000 (enough for continuous fire of 36 PSPs)

Basically if only firing one non-GC turret the Titan/Boreas should be able to sustain fire indefinitly. Where as the Osaka can fire it's 3 PSP equipped turrets forever, with only the SSCs eating into the energy store.

[Ulan Dhor]

You neglected to mention the Laser Energy Recharge...

• Titan: 4142 (enough for continuous fire of ~9.86 PPCs)
  Boreas: 4500 (enough for continuous fire of ~10.71 PPCs)
  Osaka: 9000 (enough for continuous fire of 36 PSPs)

Basically if only firing one non-GC turret the Titan/Boreas should be able to sustain fire indefinitly. Where as the Osaka can fire it's 3 PSP equipped turrets forever, with only the SSCs eating into the energy store.

I agree, one shot every 10 seconds sure is energy conserving .

[EmperorJon]

I enjoy using a PSP, sure it may look bad on paper, but you needn't worry about rate of fire if your opponent is dead in one shot. A charged up PSP volley will kill a Q, based on 8 PSPs.

I love my Osaka, because it's still a challenge to fly. You should try attacking 30-40 M6s at the smae time, only targetting 3 with Capital weapons, and the rest being desperately Flakked by my SSCs

[kurush]

Osaka or Tyr are fine but each of them has its own problem.
Osaka is too big and a bit slow. Tyr can't equip enough anti-capital guns without sacrificing some SB cannons. I don't see any reason to go for anything lower than those three unless you get it for free (like my 50+ Akumas guarding satellites all over my universe). I did a flight test of all these ships plus Valhalla in the Khaak sector where you get M1/2 spawns and Boreas wins so far where safety is concerned.
Valhalla actually got almost destroyed once, Tyr is a bit lame with one side turret armed with SBC and AI also can decide to use this SBC turret on a destroyer for some time. Osaka is Ok but Boreas somehow feels better .
It does not make much sense to put IBL on the FLAK turrets and they don't add much to the firepower. It is just 4 guns / turret anyway and you would not be fighting 4+ capital ships at a time unless you want to reload often...
Tyr is awesome when you don't mind controlling your turrets. It can kill most other ships in 1-2 charged shots.
I also don't understand people saying that SBC is better than FLAK. Stats tell a different story. Flak has a slightly better range and approx. the same damage. 12 SBC is surely better than 4 FLAK though That is if you don't want anybody to bail.
I still have to test Tyr with EMC/SBC combo for fighter defense though. It might be a decent combination.
Speaking of nerfing, X3:R Python got nerfed to death in X3:TC for no apparent reason. It was almost the best M2 in X3:R and could have stayed the same considering that we have those 3 more powerful destroyers now.

[Sawk Backer]

I think,in my personal opinion that Boreas is the best M2(really small sig radius, and great firepower especially against cap ships),even if i got a TYR fitted as the following,its kinda nice too(and much more sexy) :
The tyr is really sexy, i managed to find one without POlarisation Coque Upgrade and after some try i managed to cap it with 4-5 stars mechanic marines.
I spent a lot of time raiding on xenon sectors to drop all the weapons needed to fitt it as i havent finished the HUB part that gives u access to aldrin plot and allow u to make terran complex yet (still 250k ore to deliver )
Here is my fitting :

Front : 8x PSP ( attack capital)
Left & Rigt : 2x PSP/2xSBC/4x PSP/2xSBC/2x PSP > = 8X PSP/4x SBC on each side (attak capital,attack all ennemies,depends on situation)
Bottom : 8xSBC (attack all ennemies)
Up : 10xSBC (attack all ennemies)
Under: 6x SBC (attack all ennemies)

Everything fitts in with around 800 energy cells + upgrades so its a nice ship i have to say, better than the Osaka, even if u cant fitt 12x PSP on each side, u got same as OSAKA (8 on sides8 front,+ 4x free SBC On side to be more efficient and u although got less signature radius that helps u to esquive more shoots. (insta kill M3,m4,m5 which is the real problem for the Boreas even if the boreas is better when u fight only against Q's, K's,and J's.

[brucewarren]

I just took an Osaka into some Xenon Core sectors to see how it faired compared
to the old Boreas in practice.

Against small fry those extra SSC make it a much better fly swatter.

Against Multiple Big Xenon it didn't fair as well. I didn't notice any improvement
in firepower. If anything the Osaka fired less frequently than the Boreas
and did less damage unless I took over a gun turret.

The thing that clinched it was the larger size and lower speed.

In my Boreas if the Ks were on my tail and shields were low, I would
fly evasive relying on small size, speed, strafe, rear guns, SETA and a bit of luck
to run away for a shield recharge.

With the Osaka the wretched things keep up with you, can't miss at close
range and with no decent rear gun, you are a sitting duck.

I may keep the Osaka but will kit it out completely with SCC as a fly swatter
but for IBL hunting I'm going to stick with the Boreas.

Mind you, this might just reflect my lack of flying skills

[Gazz]

Mind you, this might just reflect my lack of flying skills :lol:

Well, probably.
A masterful flyer of awesomeness ( = anyone who uses the strafe keys) can annihilate ridiculous amounts of capital ships with any M2.
And can outrun J/K with even a vanilla Phoenix.

Of course it gets somewhat easier if you use the single most overpowered ship in the game. =)

[brucewarren]

True.

No doubt you can outrun a J in the spacesuit if you strafe in the right direction.

I'll leave that challenge to braver souls than me

I just wanted to test out which ship it was easier to fly against the Xenon in
and in my highly unscientific trial the Boreas won.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

My post here provides a comparison of the main energy based capital weapons (inc. charged mode) based on the quoted theoretical data.

Off the cuff, the Boreas will beat the Osaka on shear damage per second using uncharged weapons (assume 32 PPCs firing continuously for a limited time v. 24 PSPs firing forever) but the Boreas will require time to recharge between engagements.

Versus clusters of capital ships with a handful of fighters the Boreas excels (and possibly v. a bit more than a handful of fighters) and with a rather charge of the light brigade kind of approach.

Versus a spread out group of capital ships with swarms of fighters around the Osaka probably fairs better, providing you fly tactically against the Capitals.

[Blazehack]

Although the Argon Titan seems to be the most popular- no one even seems to have considered the OTAS Boreas, is it useless or just not worth considering?

Between the 2 its a tossup

Titans are better allround fighter(mixs good capital weapon takedown abilities with good antifighter capabilities.

Boreas are the cream of straight kick enemy capitals in the groin, but come up a little short in anti fighter

Osakas best feature really isn't the weapons they mount although the ssc are top notch. The PSP are crap compared to PPC. Osakas power comes from the missiles they can launch with is a major strongpoint for terran ships in general(thier missile are where the power is)

[Nospatris]

hi Guys

I am a Osaka fan for several reasons:
- the main gun is the nastiest in the game
- great shields
- SSC let you just drive through.

The trick with the Osaka is to drive at your J/K from along way out (10K)
At 8 km you stop and begin reversing up, if you want to be nasty offset heading by 10 degrees. At 7.5 km your main guns will engage from three turrets, the j/k will remain coming at you on constant bearing and fly into incoming rounds, closing speed is low. The J/K has to reaches 5 km before engaging, but is usually dead by then.

A J in close will beat you, but at range, not a hope. This also works well for Kark Destoryers. No M1/M2 can drive into a stationary Osaka with full front weapons bearing, No figther/missile can get past SSC in rear.

Those assassin missions with large numbers of M6's, just drop out the gate into the middle of them, select the key target and drive striaght through the fire and let the SSC sort them out.

Money, missiles, and Rep th easy way

[Blazehack]

The PSP slow rate of fire and the fact that PPC do more damage per sec then them. True the shots will hit harder but the PSP takes forever to reload and fire again so does less damage over time(considerably lower)

No trick fighting for me in my Titan. Just strafe towards whatever cap ship needs to die and they all fall down. My CFA/PRG mix on the back/up/down clear the missiles/fighters easily. 24 PPC on 3 turrets just devistate cap ships even several at once.

As an example I jumped into a xenon sector which had 2 Ks, a J, 5 Qs, 3 Ps, a PX and about 30+ assorted fighter trash at the gate and made it thru all of them with still half my shields still up. Try that in an Osaka and you be dead waiting for those PSP to reload and fire again.