[TC] [Q] OFF - Destroy the Hive (What would you do?)

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Ok...

Current assets (not comprehensive list):-

• ~74 million in the bank
  1 Panther (F 6xIBL - Attack Capitals, L/R 1xPALC+1xFBL - Missile Defence, U/D/B 4xISR - Attack Enemies, Missiles: ~250 Wasp, ~10 Hornet, Fighters: None at the moment - being used as temporary garage)
  1 Cobra (nearly bingo on missiles - not enough missiles for use)
  1 Yokohama (M 8x MAML, L/R 2 x MAML - Attack my target, U/D 2 x SSC - Missile Defence, Missiles: not enough to shout about)
  1 Vidar (M 10 x MAML, U/D 2 x EMPC - Missile Defence)
  1 236m/s Hyperion Vanguard (Variable weapon loadout - full ISR/HEPT/PAC/EBC options, Missiles: ~19 Wraith, ~50 Hornets, ~150 Wasp)
  1 224m/s Advanced Perseus

Current Status:-

• Assasin combat rank
  Captain OFF Rank
  All top race ranks
  Just completed defend M148
  Location MB in M148
  7 LTs in Terran Space (5 sector radius from Saturn) covering from The Moon <--> Kuiper Belt <--> Omicron Lyrae
  4 Nividium Collectors in Kingdom End
  Only the Hub for a station
  Ryu bought TL available

Ok... I tried doing the the Hive attack in the Panther but got well and truely pasted (killed)...

Options considering:-

• 1. leaving Hive attack till I have a fully equipped M2 (Boreas or Osaka)
  2. leaving Hive attack till I have a fully weaponed M1 (Tokyo)
  3. buy and equip a Deimos (PSG + Flak probably)
  4. attempt the mission in my Yokohama (with the Wraith missiles from my Hyperion for support)
  5. buy and equip a Shrike (GC + Flak/IPG probably... maybe with EBC forward)
  6. Go back to my original game and forget this one

What would you guys do in my place? Are there any other options worth considering? Does anyone know if there are any consequences to leaving the Hive attack mission for a while before starting it (or docking at the Military Base)

[EmperorJon]

Buy a Deimos and stick PSGs EVERYWHERE! MAWAHAH!

Then get some good missiles, and hit the hive form afar!

I just did the whole thing in a Boreas though.

But the Hive did spawn about 500km off from the centre so it took my years!

[Catra]

i think i see your problem....your lack of niv miners is whats causing your mission failure

as for what id do...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
get an m1, load it enough ecells to jump in and out,remaining cargo hold goes to keris drones, same with panther, load both ships with solano's equipped with 6x PRG, load their cargo bays with fighter drone Mk II's, then show the khaak the real meaning of cluster$%&^

or you could do the same thing with a TL,

load up some freight drones with fighter mk2 drones(theres 100 to 1 freight drone), load up freight drones onto the TL (on a mammoth, its like........erm..........20000 freight drones to 1 mammoth TL without any other wares on it), of course...doing this IS was tedious, as -any- comp would explode when 20000 -anythings- try to appear all at once, so i had to do 1 by 1...for all my atmo lifters (theres 26,666 freight drones to 1 atmo lifter)

but thats my way

with your options, id go with the deimos, as kha'ak absolutely -love- getting uncomfortably close to you, perfect for PSG ownage.

[Reimu Hakurei]

I'd load the Cobra with marines and missiles (build if necessary) and go capture [Commonwealth M2 of your choice here], arm it and use it to take out the Hive.

I used a Brigantine I took from Gaian Star a long time before.
Following my experiences with it, I can tell you that while the IDs are prone to pissing off friendlies as the lightning jumps around all the nearby ships and flak explosions, ID/FAA makes a very strong combination for anti-fighter defence in that even if you can't hit them with damaging shots you can still deplete their shields and burn out some of the equipment, it also seems to slow the ships but that could just be me.
And another thing, tactics-wise. It seems that GKyons have a shortish range for capital weapons, so you can strafe-drive away from a Destroyer sitting just out of its range (use external view) as your heavy guns eat into it.
And lastly, circumstantially, ignore your allies, by all means kill the nearby capitals but apart from that their only task from then on is delaying more Destroyers. I had pirates jump in and join the fight presumably with the intention of finding some goodies, they didn't help me but if you get any, don't gun for them (unless they're coming after you of course) because they may end up a useful distraction.

[TTD]

I just flew in and pasted it with continuous heavy lasers fire.(can't remember which one),and had several support ships attacking enemies ans protecting me.
I actually got in real close...nearly touching the thing.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Some interesting ideas there... I went with option 2 in the end... borrowed the SSC and 8 of the MAMLs from my Yokohama... managed to scrape together 8 PSP and 4 more SSC.

Had a Kha'ak carrier and two destroyers during the mission but managed to toast them... in part using the ramming speed tactic (and ejecting/collecting a spare 25MJ shield I was carrying in order to recharge the shields after dealing with the two destroyers)... The Kha'ak fighter ships were mere flies v. the Tokyo's shields.

Had considered the Deimos plus PSGs but was a little concerned about getting suitable missiles together for the ranged attacks. To support this, I tried to use wraith missiles v. the guardians but they got shot down.

[pjknibbs]

I'd say that's a very odd loadout for a Panther. The ISRs won't be efficient at taking down the fighters--why aren't you using flak?

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I'd say that's a very odd loadout for a Panther. The ISRs won't be efficient at taking down the fighters--why aren't you using flak?

They seem effective enough on the most part (I tend to use ISRs/IPGs alot primarily for range)... Flak has shorter range, costs more energy to fire, and has a slower refire rate (and prior to 2.5 was bugged).

[pjknibbs]

Maybe, but flak simply doesn't miss...not ever. How much energy are your ISRs wasting firing at things they can't possibly hit? When I tried a Panther with a combination of PRG and PAC I found it couldn't hit fighters for toffee.

[Kapakio]

As pjknibbs says, you could have done it with just the Panther using flaks for anti fighter support, and just engage capital khaak if they get too close to run off.

[jwigeland]

I did this mission (although I was a few ranks lower than you) with a Python. I had PPC up front, IBL left and right, and ISR elsewhere. There were two capital ships that I offed at the start. Then, I sat just outside each guardian's laser range and pounded them with PPC fire till they crumpled. I had an occasional fighter swarm to deal with, but nothing to worry the Python to any great extent (ISR is horrible anti-fighter stuff. Will take figther drones next time). It was actually quite relaxing...

[Ulan Dhor]

A somewhat lower fight rank probably makes a big difference. I still don't know who or what took out the Guardians when I did that mission. I just destroyed two of the stations, because the other ships were a bit inefficient in this regard (they flew attack runs and had to make wide turns to get back to the station). But there were many NPC ships present in my game.

[kurush]

I guess the major problem here is a non-optimal loadout for Panther. It should go with 6 IBL "attack capital ships" with the rest of turrets FLAK-only "attack enemies". If you managed to pick up PALC, put them on one of the side turrets. "Missile Defense" is unfortunately not a good command for a capital ship because it does not attack fighters before they attack you and you rarely get a missile that can really hurt you. If you still want missile defense, use it on the PALC turret only. You might need to turn around to bring the missile into coverage but at least you can hit it while it is still 5-6 km away. It can also be used to get rid of Kha'ak capital ships without getting in their fire range.

With this loadout you should be able to take out anything the game throws on you with some clever maneuvering and patience.

[dillpickle]

A somewhat lower fight rank probably makes a big difference....

I've done Final Fury at 0% Harmless, and at Xtreme. To be perfectly honest there didn't seem any difference in difficulty in this last mission.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

As pjknibbs says, you could have done it with just the Panther using flaks for anti fighter support, and just engage capital khaak if they get too close to run off.

I doubt it as even with the Tokyo, my shields were taking a beating under a simultanious attack from a Carrier and a Destroyer!

4GJ of shields aint gonna last under that kind of onslaught regardless of what weapons I am packing... unless we are talking uber weapons that turn X into a game of wack-a-mole.

[EDIT]An M2 with those shields and PPC/IBL and FAA would have probably faired ok... but the Panther is not an M2.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I did this mission (although I was a few ranks lower than you) with a Python. I had PPC up front, IBL left and right, and ISR elsewhere. There were two capital ships that I offed at the start. Then, I sat just outside each guardian's laser range and pounded them with PPC fire till they crumpled. I had an occasional fighter swarm to deal with, but nothing to worry the Python to any great extent (ISR is horrible anti-fighter stuff. Will take figther drones next time). It was actually quite relaxing...

Would have taken a different capital ship to the Tokyo but I was looking at what M2 capital ship I could buy and equip in a short time... I know the Tokyo is an M1 but it qualified on the power-shields ratio... just... I think I would have had a much easier time with a proper M2.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I guess the major problem here is a non-optimal loadout for Panther. It should go with 6 IBL "attack capital ships" with the rest of turrets FLAK-only "attack enemies". If you managed to pick up PALC, put them on one of the side turrets. "Missile Defense" is unfortunately not a good command for a capital ship because it does not attack fighters before they attack you and you rarely get a missile that can really hurt you. If you still want missile defense, use it on the PALC turret only. You might need to turn around to bring the missile into coverage but at least you can hit it while it is still 5-6 km away. It can also be used to get rid of Kha'ak capital ships without getting in their fire range.

With this loadout you should be able to take out anything the game throws on you with some clever maneuvering and patience.

Missile defence works fine on the most part, though I do switch between missile defence/attack enemies/attack fighters on an as-needed basis. I did find during the patrol missions that missile defence was the best option as it allowed me to nuke the clusters with hornets while protecting me from missile spams (and the occasional scout).

[kurush]

I doubt it as even with the Tokyo, my shields were taking a beating under a simultanious attack from a Carrier and a Destroyer!

4GJ of shields aint gonna last under that kind of onslaught regardless of what weapons I am packing... unless we are talking uber weapons that turn X into a game of wack-a-mole.

The trick is not to get in the range of either of them while slowly wearing their shields down. Panther sucks for those who prefer frontal attack PALC turret can shot directly back and still hit a Kha'ak Capitol ship while your Panther is staying out of range. IBL unfortunately cannot due to a shorter range but you can always position yourself properly and put some charged IBL shots on the way of coming destroyer or carrier. For just one ship you can actually take it out with charged shots and still keep like 50% of your shields. If in doubt, turn around, retreat and then repeat. PALC makes it much easier.
Tokyo would have more problems here than a Panther because of fewer anti-cap guns on turrets.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I doubt it as even with the Tokyo, my shields were taking a beating under a simultanious attack from a Carrier and a Destroyer!

4GJ of shields aint gonna last under that kind of onslaught regardless of what weapons I am packing... unless we are talking uber weapons that turn X into a game of wack-a-mole.

The trick is not to get in the range of either of them while slowly wearing their shields down. Panther sucks for those who prefer frontal attack PALC turret can shot directly back and still hit a Kha'ak Capitol ship while your Panther is staying out of range. IBL unfortunately cannot due to a shorter range but you can always position yourself properly and put some charged IBL shots on the way of coming destroyer or carrier. For just one ship you can actually take it out with charged shots and still keep like 50% of your shields. If in doubt, turn around, retreat and then repeat. PALC makes it much easier.
Tokyo would have more problems here than a Panther because of fewer anti-cap guns on turrets.

Tokyo had less problems than the Panther (FACT based on experience)... it may take a little longer perhaps but the Tokyo can take alot more of a beating (and has M2 class power to spare)...

2.5 Times the shields and about 2.5 times the shield regen... plus the PSPs have a greater range than the IBLs and when charged do a greater theoretical DPS (excluding the apparant 50% boost from Flak effect).

[kurush]

Tokyo had less problems than the Panther (FACT based on experience)... it may take a little longer perhaps but the Tokyo can take alot more of a beating (and has M2 class power to spare)...

It all obviously depends on your tactics. I flew both and I prefer Panther for myself. Tokyo can't:
1) Shot straight back with some sort of anti-cap weapon.
2) Shot forward with ----//-----
Panther can do both and can also turn quickly when it is time to run. The only problem for Panther is when it manages to run into an excessive number of Kha'ak fighters. Those b-kyons have a slightly higher range than FLAK and also do a lot of damage. 4 VS 10 GJ would not matter much when you run into a mob of destroyers and on AI Tokyo can't handle a single Destroyer by itself.