So I've got the bonus pack, and I've read all that I can find about these two types of software. For example, a guide to training them up. But what is the practical use of them? Or better yet, a guide to using them properly?
ATM I have two stations, and a bunch of fighters (that mostly stay docked in various places). My two stations each have my own freighters supplying and selling for them already. It seems like CLS just does that. And is CAG even useful to me at this point?
Hrm. I'm not even sure how to phrase this question. I guess I just need a quick run-down of what this softwares' purpose is, and what it does I couldn't do without it.
A slightly unrelated question: I've got all these fighter in docks, bar a few protecting my stations' freighters. I feel like they're going to waste. Should I equip som w/ jumpdrives and have them escort my 3 universe traders? Anything else?
Thanks.
CAG and CLS uses
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Darkwolf_187
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Mon, 23. Aug 10, 01:48
Re: CAG and CLS uses
CLS1/CLS2/CAG are awesome. You can wrangle them into many different scenarios. Take special note, that pilot levels are shared between CLS1, CLS2 and CAG. This means (and this is a good idea) you can train up your CLS pilots using CAG somewhere, then put them to work properly elsewhere.
CAG - Far better than the standard Sell Ware / Buy Ware bot, since CAG can deal with multiple products/resources at once, can dynamically purchase/sell materials that are most required, and can use jumpdrives. With a CAG, you can have it both refuel a factory and sell the products, all from one freighters. Buy/Sell Ware requires at least two.
CLS1 - Handles delivery of products from a factory(ies) you control to other factory(ies) you control. It has priority allocation, so it can intelligently deliver stocks to factories that are in the direst need. It can also use jumpdrives.
CLS2 - Handles scripted waypoints as you determine. You can command CLS2 to run between specific waypoints and do tasks (buy stuff, load things, unload things, refuel jump energy and such). I use CLS2 more than I use CLS1, to be honest, since it's so versatile.
Usage examples
CLS1
Solar Power Plant factory with a CLS1, assigned to ship Energy Cells to a number of complexes. The CLS1 will shift around the eCells as requires to the destination complexes, serving the most desperate factories first.
CLS2
Freighter with a CLS2 script telling it to unload 3000 Energy Cells into a TL, with a 50% minimum delivery requirement. If that TL's jump fuel repository gets below 1500 eCells, the CLS2 will automatically jump to it and refuel it.
Freighter with a CLS2 script telling it to fly between a number of stations, buying up ammunition, and then to a TL where it unloads.
Freighter with CLS2, assigned to load Silicon Wafers from a number of mobile miners, and then unload those into a Crystal Fab complex. The freighter will then handle your mobile mining operation automatically.
CAG
Freighter with CAG, set to maintain a factory. The CAG will automatically obtain needed resources for the factory, and will also sell products the factory produces for best profit where it can find it.
CLS2 On-Demand Refuel
I use a CLS2 waypoint set that I use to do an on-demand refuel of my ships. At the moment it's just ecells, but there's no reason why it couldn't get expanded to include missiles. Here's the script;
1. Waypoint SHIP, unload 500 energy cells
2. Waypoint ECELLS COMPLEX, fly to station, refuel jump energy, load max cargo of energy cells
The first waypoint can be duplicated for as many ships as you want (I've got my two M7's set to 1000 ecells and my Springblossom set to 500 ecells). Set the minimum delivery to 50% and turn on wait for request. Then bind a key to request.
What now happens is I can be flying somewhere, realize I'm low on ecells, and hit the Request key. Within a minute, the freighter jumps into the system, heads up to my ship, refuels it, and jumps out again. Wait until the ship has docked at the ecells complex and gone idle before hitting the request key again to disable the request.
It's pretty sweet.
CAG - Far better than the standard Sell Ware / Buy Ware bot, since CAG can deal with multiple products/resources at once, can dynamically purchase/sell materials that are most required, and can use jumpdrives. With a CAG, you can have it both refuel a factory and sell the products, all from one freighters. Buy/Sell Ware requires at least two.
CLS1 - Handles delivery of products from a factory(ies) you control to other factory(ies) you control. It has priority allocation, so it can intelligently deliver stocks to factories that are in the direst need. It can also use jumpdrives.
CLS2 - Handles scripted waypoints as you determine. You can command CLS2 to run between specific waypoints and do tasks (buy stuff, load things, unload things, refuel jump energy and such). I use CLS2 more than I use CLS1, to be honest, since it's so versatile.
Usage examples
CLS1
Solar Power Plant factory with a CLS1, assigned to ship Energy Cells to a number of complexes. The CLS1 will shift around the eCells as requires to the destination complexes, serving the most desperate factories first.
CLS2
Freighter with a CLS2 script telling it to unload 3000 Energy Cells into a TL, with a 50% minimum delivery requirement. If that TL's jump fuel repository gets below 1500 eCells, the CLS2 will automatically jump to it and refuel it.
Freighter with a CLS2 script telling it to fly between a number of stations, buying up ammunition, and then to a TL where it unloads.
Freighter with CLS2, assigned to load Silicon Wafers from a number of mobile miners, and then unload those into a Crystal Fab complex. The freighter will then handle your mobile mining operation automatically.
CAG
Freighter with CAG, set to maintain a factory. The CAG will automatically obtain needed resources for the factory, and will also sell products the factory produces for best profit where it can find it.
CLS2 On-Demand Refuel
I use a CLS2 waypoint set that I use to do an on-demand refuel of my ships. At the moment it's just ecells, but there's no reason why it couldn't get expanded to include missiles. Here's the script;
1. Waypoint SHIP, unload 500 energy cells
2. Waypoint ECELLS COMPLEX, fly to station, refuel jump energy, load max cargo of energy cells
The first waypoint can be duplicated for as many ships as you want (I've got my two M7's set to 1000 ecells and my Springblossom set to 500 ecells). Set the minimum delivery to 50% and turn on wait for request. Then bind a key to request.
What now happens is I can be flying somewhere, realize I'm low on ecells, and hit the Request key. Within a minute, the freighter jumps into the system, heads up to my ship, refuels it, and jumps out again. Wait until the ship has docked at the ecells complex and gone idle before hitting the request key again to disable the request.
It's pretty sweet.
Not only can mk2 best buy/sellers only do one ware, but more than one can be really dumb and constantly steal each others deals. CAGs dont do that.
For all the technical information you need to use these scripts look at this sticky here:
http://forum.egosoft.de/viewtopic.php?t=276039
Almost every bit of information you need about them is there. In order for them to be useful you have to level them up. Important points to note is that CAG pilots and CLS pilots are interchangeable, and I find it easier to level them up as CLS's and then change them to CAGs.
For a guide to training them up look here:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=277232
For all the technical information you need to use these scripts look at this sticky here:
http://forum.egosoft.de/viewtopic.php?t=276039
Almost every bit of information you need about them is there. In order for them to be useful you have to level them up. Important points to note is that CAG pilots and CLS pilots are interchangeable, and I find it easier to level them up as CLS's and then change them to CAGs.
For a guide to training them up look here:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=277232
The guide I was talking about is here: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=277232
It basically shows you how to train CLS2 pilots quickly, which can then be used in all three roles.
It basically shows you how to train CLS2 pilots quickly, which can then be used in all three roles.
I'm not sure what I did wrong. I have an Ore mine with one supply freighter and one sellr (the ol-fashioned way.) I noticed the mine was filling up faster than the seller could sell, so I tried switching the buyer to CAG duty, but he just sat there. Granted, this pilot hadn't levelled up at all, but I read they were able to sell for their station right from the start.
Did I miss something?
Did I miss something?
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Dantrithor
- Posts: 1752
- Joined: Mon, 3. Jul 06, 19:29
They're not able to sell until they are somewhat trained (To the second level, I think). I'd recommend you to have the ecell buyer as a CAG for now, and having a standard ship selling the ore for now, until you have that CAG trained. Then you can set-up the already-trained CAG to only sell (until he trains to the highest level), while you turn into a ecell buyer CAG the other ship.
Oh, I had it backwards! Thanks.
I've actually added a third ship, because it doesn't seem like two is enough for a Large mine. Which is weird, because the original two were superfreighters w/ their holds fully expanded. But this one seems like it'll be useful, as it's that unarmed one that can use a tractor beam, and starts out ready for remote mining.
What's the advantage of remote mining over building a mine? Why wouldn't I just slap a mine on all the 'roids in the sector with above, I don't know.. say, 15 yield?
I've actually added a third ship, because it doesn't seem like two is enough for a Large mine. Which is weird, because the original two were superfreighters w/ their holds fully expanded. But this one seems like it'll be useful, as it's that unarmed one that can use a tractor beam, and starts out ready for remote mining.
What's the advantage of remote mining over building a mine? Why wouldn't I just slap a mine on all the 'roids in the sector with above, I don't know.. say, 15 yield?
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Panther_Clipper
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Sun, 1. Aug 10, 21:52
Lots of people find that GoD removes all the PSP, SSC, Wraith and Shadow fabs from Terran space unless the player intervenes and trades with them in some way. After playing around with various methods I found a very effective way of automating this process with the CLS2 software.
At the start of a new game there are SSC and Wraith fabs in Mars and PSP and Shadow fabs in Saturn 3. What I did was set 5 CLS2 Baldrics in each area to supply resources to the fabs. Then I parked a Mammoth in each sector and used the standard Buy Ware command on 2 Falcon Haulers per TL to buy the products from each fab.
The result is a automated system to supply resources and buy the products from each fab. The lasers/missiles are then automatically stored in the TL for future use without any player intervention. This is particularly helpful for the Shadow missiles as you cannot buy this fab.
This can be set up with level 1 pilots and is very good way of raising their level. Note though that this process consumes quite alot of credits.
At the start of a new game there are SSC and Wraith fabs in Mars and PSP and Shadow fabs in Saturn 3. What I did was set 5 CLS2 Baldrics in each area to supply resources to the fabs. Then I parked a Mammoth in each sector and used the standard Buy Ware command on 2 Falcon Haulers per TL to buy the products from each fab.
The result is a automated system to supply resources and buy the products from each fab. The lasers/missiles are then automatically stored in the TL for future use without any player intervention. This is particularly helpful for the Shadow missiles as you cannot buy this fab.
This can be set up with level 1 pilots and is very good way of raising their level. Note though that this process consumes quite alot of credits.
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Eternall_00
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Mon, 2. Jan 06, 06:14
In my experience:What's the advantage of remote mining over building a mine? Why wouldn't I just slap a mine on all the 'roids in the sector with above, I don't know.. say, 15 yield?
Pros
1. Yield doesn't matter with remote mining. A 3 yield ore roid can supply a megaplex with enough miners.
2. You can use CLS to move the ore wherever you want. Miners don't ever have to move, just plop em down on a field of collectable rocks.
3. No e-cells, except for the CLS jumps.
4. No meatball towing.
Cons
1. Have to stay OOS.
2. Need a lot of miners for huge complexes, I had a field of 60 with 2 CLS supplying my 150 Station chip/crystal complex.
3. Takes a bit of time to set up the CLS waypoints, unless someone knows a faster way in vanilla. Use data storage!
Mobile mining collection points work best. Home base your TS miners to TL's. Depending on the capacity of the TS's and TL's the numbers vary. Just about eleven Caiman Miners pair nicely with an Atmo Lifter, or eight and a half with a Mammoth. But in any case, miners home based to TL's will deliver their goods to the home base.
Since it's not possible to selectively mine in TC, you'll probably need to separate the minerals manually, with a CLS moving Silicon to one set of TL's and Ore to another. Unless your complex uses both, which makes it much easier to deal with. Then you only need one layer of movement.
Personally I like to use TL's as CLS for mining operations, because they can both hold huge loads and energy for the Jump Drive.
Of course since I enjoy working with the CLS, it goes like so:
Mobile Miners are home based to the storage TL(s). A CLS TL transports ore and silicon from the storage TL(s) to a TL outside the Complex. CLS freighters transfer from the Complex TL to the Complex.
Since it's not possible to selectively mine in TC, you'll probably need to separate the minerals manually, with a CLS moving Silicon to one set of TL's and Ore to another. Unless your complex uses both, which makes it much easier to deal with. Then you only need one layer of movement.
Personally I like to use TL's as CLS for mining operations, because they can both hold huge loads and energy for the Jump Drive.
Of course since I enjoy working with the CLS, it goes like so:
Mobile Miners are home based to the storage TL(s). A CLS TL transports ore and silicon from the storage TL(s) to a TL outside the Complex. CLS freighters transfer from the Complex TL to the Complex.
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Darkwolf_187
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Mon, 23. Aug 10, 01:48
A TL cannot transfer freight directly to a complex. Additionally, you can't tell your transport TL to "wait" until the shuttle TS's unload its cargo into the complex.Fulgrymm wrote:Question, why have a TL sitting outside of the complex instead of transporting it to the complex directly?
By introducing the second buffer TL, you remove that problem - since freight can be transferred from the transport TL to the buffer TL, then transferred from there via shuttle TS to the complex while the transport TL heads back.
Precisely. The other option is to use slow Superfreighters running between the mining site and the complex itself. With this method only the big TL(s) move and then you can use a fleet of haulers, which don't haul as much but are faster and thus run just as much freight in the same time because of the shorter distance.
The beauty of CLS is the flexibility of it. How exactly you organise your chains, or where you have TLs or dont have them is entirely up to you. I find it best to tailor it to the task at hand. For example, I have three large mining operations going on.
1. The first is in an unknown sector. I have roughly 45 miners collecting everything, Silicon, Ore and Niv. I use 4 CLS ships to collect from them and deliver to a TL near the gate. Two more CLS ships delivers the silicon and Ore to the HUb where I use CAGs to sell it over a jump range of 50. Another CLS pilot delivers the niv to a TL parked in a shipyard for periodic manual hull selling. The only time the system backs up is the rare occasions my CAGs standby due to lack of trades available.
2. I have a massive crystal plex in Aldrin. I put a mine on every silicon mine in the sector regardless of yield. I have roughly 60 miners collecting Silicon from the remining debris. I need to use one collector per 5 miners roughly, due to the fact its about 150km to where they need to deliver it. I dont use any TLs in this set up as the complex itself holds 65k silicon.
3. In another unknown sector, I put a mine on every Silicon roid, regardless of yield and complexed them up. I stuck on enough SPPs to run it then use CLS to ship in the crystals needed from Aldrin. And placed the hub near the gate.
I have roughly 60 miners collecting Silicon and 3 CLS ships collecting and delivering to the mining plex (luckily they chose to mine very near to it). I use 3 more CLS ships to collect from the mining plex and deliver it to a microchip complex in another sector, also with its hub near a gate.
When considering which ships to use as collectors, pure speed is a fallacy. Its speed to capacity ratio that I go by. Putting it simply, it doesn't matter if the ship goes half the speed but carries 4 times as much. Also this only really matters for the setup cost and how many ships you have flying around. As long as you use enough ships, whether your system backs up or not is down to your supply and consumption. Not the speed or capacity of the ships you use.
1. The first is in an unknown sector. I have roughly 45 miners collecting everything, Silicon, Ore and Niv. I use 4 CLS ships to collect from them and deliver to a TL near the gate. Two more CLS ships delivers the silicon and Ore to the HUb where I use CAGs to sell it over a jump range of 50. Another CLS pilot delivers the niv to a TL parked in a shipyard for periodic manual hull selling. The only time the system backs up is the rare occasions my CAGs standby due to lack of trades available.
2. I have a massive crystal plex in Aldrin. I put a mine on every silicon mine in the sector regardless of yield. I have roughly 60 miners collecting Silicon from the remining debris. I need to use one collector per 5 miners roughly, due to the fact its about 150km to where they need to deliver it. I dont use any TLs in this set up as the complex itself holds 65k silicon.
3. In another unknown sector, I put a mine on every Silicon roid, regardless of yield and complexed them up. I stuck on enough SPPs to run it then use CLS to ship in the crystals needed from Aldrin. And placed the hub near the gate.
I have roughly 60 miners collecting Silicon and 3 CLS ships collecting and delivering to the mining plex (luckily they chose to mine very near to it). I use 3 more CLS ships to collect from the mining plex and deliver it to a microchip complex in another sector, also with its hub near a gate.
When considering which ships to use as collectors, pure speed is a fallacy. Its speed to capacity ratio that I go by. Putting it simply, it doesn't matter if the ship goes half the speed but carries 4 times as much. Also this only really matters for the setup cost and how many ships you have flying around. As long as you use enough ships, whether your system backs up or not is down to your supply and consumption. Not the speed or capacity of the ships you use.
One of the reasons I like Caiman Miners so much is the combination of speed and capacity. The next closest is the Vulture which is slower, and does not at the high end hold as much. The Caiman is not as fast as the other variants, but the fastest holds less at maximum than the Caiman holds straight from the shipyard. Even the Baldric Miner only equals it at purchase.
I'm only mentioning miner variants because they don't require extra purchases to go into mobile mining.
I'm only mentioning miner variants because they don't require extra purchases to go into mobile mining.
Well, it can be done without the TL. If your operation is fairly small, a TS super freighter docked at one of the mining HQ's, and set to sell Silicon and Ore to it works well enough, because CLS can deliver to a docked ship.
So the TL free version goes like this:
Miner mines minerals. CLS delivery system collects minerals from miner(s), delivers to docked TS. Docked TS uses CLS2 to sell to HQ. Does so automatically because it knows as soon as the HQ can take more.
Replace the Complex with the HQ, and you've got the same trick, the only difference being that you'll have one landing point constantly blocked by the SF.
So the TL free version goes like this:
Miner mines minerals. CLS delivery system collects minerals from miner(s), delivers to docked TS. Docked TS uses CLS2 to sell to HQ. Does so automatically because it knows as soon as the HQ can take more.
Replace the Complex with the HQ, and you've got the same trick, the only difference being that you'll have one landing point constantly blocked by the SF.