Some questions about M7 use (Panther)

[Excelsior82]

Hey guys,

I recently bought a panther, and it's my very first carrier ship, but now I wandered a bit with it, I'm asking myself some questions.

First : Weaponry
I've looked several thread where people said best weapons for that ship are 8 IBL and 14 FAA, but I compute myself that if every turrets were shooting with max weapons, the laser generator would be empty in about 5 seconds and then you would shoot at a ridiculous rate. Sure it would make a lot of damage, but when you need to defend yourself, that may not be the best configuration.

ATM I've equipped 10 PRG and 12 CIG, and that may be a little less power than what I wanted.
So, I made a test by stuffing the ship with every weapon it can carry, and engaged some other carriers to see how MARS would switch weapons. It indeedy used a lot IBL and Flak, but also PALC (which is cool to see), and a bit of CIG, PRG, and even ISR.

So, I'm asking here for a cool weapon configuration, but not so OP the laser generator would sputter after 5 seconds.

Second : Managing carrier
Sure, having a 1,5 km long ship sounds great and feels great when you impale a bothering M6 and you don't notice any scratch on the shields. But when you need to store E-cells, you start to weep.
I've figured out I can send freight drones to retrieve 800 E-Cells at a time, but man, the drones are more sluggish than my ship. Moreover they can dock and trade with any station, but they don't wanna go home. When they are within 2 km of my ship they slow down and I have to retrieve them myself. I'm sure I've done something wrong and that's why I ask you how I can improve this.

I also kind of hope I could dock a TS, but it seems that even TL can't, so that's a real pain to load up the ship

Thanks in advance

[perkint]

Go with the IBL and FAA. You shouldn't be firing constantly - that's what your fighters are for. And actually, the energy on the Panther is not bad.

I think the drones would auto re-dock if you have a spare docking bay.

And yeah, none of the normal ships in the game have external docking slots, so can't dock TSs. Only one that's available in vanilla at all and that's the Aran.

Tim

[Excelsior82]

Go with the IBL and FAA. You shouldn't be firing constantly - that's what your fighters are for. And actually, the energy on the Panther is not bad.

Well, for IBL, I'll see in another life when Yaki will love me, cause I don't see how I could do now, but I'll take the next most powerful. However, when I ran my test, attacking a Shuri drove me on low energy quite fast and I'm afraid if it's a good option anyway.

I think the drones would auto re-dock if you have a spare docking bay.

I'll give it a try later. Maybe I've screwed something last time (I have 31 spare docking bay, only a spitfyre ready to chase little vermin). I don't need any piece of software to manage the drones ?

[perkint]

Well, for IBL, I'll see in another life when Yaki will love me, cause I don't see how I could do now, but I'll take the next most powerful. However, when I ran my test, attacking a Shuri drove me on low energy quite fast and I'm afraid if it's a good option anyway.

Why would you want the Yaki to like you to get them? It's quicker to get your hands on them when they don't like you - especially if you have a crew capable of boarding

What weapons were you using? I didn't think there was a decent alternative to the the IBL for M7's attacking a capital (except missiles). Actually - can the Panther use Gauss Cannons?

I don't need any piece of software to manage the drones ?

Sorry - can't really help you on this one. I always have a Mistral SF or two sat around waiting to jump to me to rearm with fuel, missiles, anything else I want. I don't really use freight drones...

Tim

[perkint]

Oh, and just a personal opinion:

Panther:
For personal use as a small carrier or for AI use

Tiger:
Much better for personal use if you aren't using the docking bays because it's your finger on the trigger giving you much better control over the IBLs, making much better use of the available energy...

Tim

[Alan Phipps]

If you have IBL (or even ISR+CIG instead) in the front set to attack capitals and FAA everywhere else set to attack fighters then you should be OK to take on M6 in a gunfight and also be safe from fighters, all without worrying too much about laser energy. For M7, M1 and M2 you would be using missiles and repeated 'fire and evade' tactics if an attack is necessary just using the Panther. You will wear the shields down faster than they can recharge between assaults.

Put an M3/+ with a decent cargobay, jumpdrive/e-cells and a transporter in your Panther rather than rely on freight drones when in a hurry or likely to be attacked. It can then always follow and meet up if you have to jump out. The freight drone(s) are OK for use when not under pressure if you have the empty dock slot, but they do need a bit of management attention to keep them moving (no special software needed).

[Thunders]

And actually, the energy on the Panther is not bad.

It's the same with the energy reserve on the Tiger. Their maximum speeds also match.

[Triaxx2]

Actually. If you dock it with an Aran, then you can transfer, from TS's.

Of course, if you use CLS2, that works better.

[softweir]

I use a Panther a great deal, and I only very rarely find the weapon energy levels dropping. True, if ALL the weapons were firing at once, constantly, it would run out very quickly, but that is very rarely the case.

Used carefully, a player-captained Panther is a mean machine. I have taken out Xenon Ks with it - it takes ages and a lot of dancing at the limits of weapon-range in third-person, but it can be done. (Only because the AI can't aim turrets at ships that are flying a tight turn. If Egosoft put better gun-direction into TNBT then that sort of Giant-Killer tactic won't work!)

For the most part I armed my Panther by camping in Ocrakoke's Storm, taking out Yaki TLs and picking up the occasional droppings.

Well what else ya gonna do while waiting for your HUB-feeding factories to provide the resources needed to get it operational?

[cmdnenad]

Go with the IBL and FAA. You shouldn't be firing constantly - that's what your fighters are for. And actually, the energy on the Panther is not bad.

Well, for IBL, I'll see in another life when Yaki will love me, cause I don't see how I could do now, but I'll take the next most powerful.

Get M7M and board Yaki Akuma. You may find 26 IBLs onboard, and if you sell the hull you can buy two more Panthers with that money.

[cj-spartacus]

The role of a Panther is a little bit mixed up. It is a carrier but can hold up against other capital ships quite effectively as well. I use 6x IBL and 16x Flak on mine but it only has to fire its IBL should a capital ship make it within range. Usually enemy capital ships are taken down by a hail of Typhoons before they get too close. In my hangar I keep a space free for my personal Mamba Raider (the 'Bone Scout' after Cho t'Nnt) and 5 of the spaces are used up by Falcon Sentinels packing EBC on protection duty. The other 26 spaces are for assorted fighters for doing all the dirty work.

[pjknibbs]

I also kind of hope I could dock a TS, but it seems that even TL can't, so that's a real pain to load up the ship

TS doesn't need to dock with mothership if either of them has a Transporter Device aboard. Just get a jumpdrive-equipped TS with a TD, load it up with energy cells, and command it to jump to where you are when you need some; get it within 5km of you and you can transfer energy to the Panther. Much quicker and easier than using drones or M3s as e-cell buyers.

[Triaxx2]

I run my Panthers the same way I run my Raptors. Which is to say with CODEA. So I just pack it full of fighters, and let CODEA deal with the logistics for the most part.

But for actually flying it, I use it to make running attacks, going full speed towards a target, and twisting off to one side or the other just before I would hit.

[redwards]

I run my Panthers the same way I run my Raptors. Which is to say with CODEA. So I just pack it full of fighters, and let CODEA deal with the logistics for the most part.

But for actually flying it, I use it to make running attacks, going full speed towards a target, and twisting off to one side or the other just before I would hit.

I had some trouble trying to set CODEA up with a frigate. You have a link to a good guide?

[AgamemnonArgon]

Panther is a versatile ship.
Certainly use IBL / ISR / CIG in front turrets and FLAK everywhere else.
I have four Panthers in that configuration. I also use missiles, usually Thunderbolts, set at fire on 60 per cent. You should watch those missile arcs when there are several ships all firing at once....
I use 30 Nova Vanguard with the minimum equipment, including four HEPT and three 25MJ shields. Set to Protect ship, they launch quickly.
Each of my major warships has at least one Corvette Escort, in the case of my Split ships, they are usually accompanied by a Skiron. HEPT and PRG on 10 HEPT and 2 PRG. Again, missiles at 60 per cent firing solution....Silkworm does nicely.
I have two spare hangar slots for Rapier Scouts. On the Tiger Fleet (30 plus platforms) I use CIG front and FLAK or ISR everywhere else.
In very hostile Sectors, 1 x Panther, 1 x Tiger and 2 x Skirons.

[Excelsior82]

TS doesn't need to dock with mothership if either of them has a Transporter Device aboard. Just get a jumpdrive-equipped TS with a TD, load it up with energy cells, and command it to jump to where you are when you need some; get it within 5km of you and you can transfer energy to the Panther. Much quicker and easier than using drones or M3s as e-cell buyers.

Now I want to kiss you, dude ! That is better than my wishes. I was thinking Egosoft left carriers with a painly cargobay management, but phew. I know what I should look for now.

Getting back on the fight/energy laser debate, I made a simple test as I explained higher (but I wasn't very clear) : I loaded the Panther's cargo bay with 10 IBL, 16 FAA, 4 PALC, 12 PRG, 22 CIG, 22 ISR, etc... In other words, the max of each laser it can equip. Then I set MARS up and I left MARS manage weapons while in battle to see which weapons would be used a lot and for what end.
Well, I'll just say MARS sucked up the ship energy at a very high rate, I attacked a Yaki Shuri (IIRC) and after, say, 10-15 seconds of fight, I was alerted on low energy. Sure, there was just the Panther against the Shuri and its fighters.

However, don't think I'm loaded, I only have 3M credits now I wasted 56M for the new home plot and so, I don't play a lot with missile (I sell the most valuable).

[AgamemnonArgon]

Perhaps make a smaller complex and make some missiles for yourself.
I produce Tomahawk, Tempest, Thunderbolt, Flail, Hammer, Firestorm, (and others) which are missiles with extra punch.
Although I make them in separate complexes, due to the growing size of my Fleet I plan something a little more like a Central Warehouse, where some of everything can be added to the mix and stockpiled more easily in a TL just for that purpose.

[caltrop]

Things to consider when using the Panther as a carrier:

- The Split Elephant makes a good Carrier support ship. Its fast like the Panther, can be used to collect loot after combat (with its own salvage/refuelling wing), and also carry fuel cells and missiles for the Panther and its fighters. Panther fighter wings can dock to resupply there, damaged fighters being detached for repairs etc, while the rest of the wing returns to the Panther fully stocked

- Adding a Tiger to the above pair provides a compact Split battlegroup for extended operations, with the Elephant as the "hub"

- You can also automate energy cell resupply of the Panther (or the Elephant, which is safer as it stays further back and more efficient as it has the cargo space for a full TS load). This can be done with a TS by using the CLS/CLS2 bonus pack script and a Transporter device

- A very effective tactic to take down Xenon K's etc is to deploy an attack wing of M4 fighters (e.g. Elites, Solanos) firing Wasps to distract the enemy turrets and chip away at the shields. This allows the relatively fast and agile Panther to get close enough to finish it off with typhoons, IBLs and/or ramming if you are feeling particularly aggressive

- Plus it way cooler resupplying your Panther by buzzing an Elephant, rather than waiting for some feeble drone or clunky old freighter

[AgamemnonArgon]

An Elephant is more like an overarmed M6 that can carry fourteen heavy fighters.
One Elephant I forgot about held an entire Sector against Pirate Blastclaws and other Pirate ships for a week before I remembered where it was patrolling. It's ISR and fourteen Nova Vanguards did a good job.
If used as a support ship, have it also armed with extra or more specialised fighters, don't take it anywhere near a battle without fighters, just for the good reason of not sailing with empty hangars.
An Elephant (or two....methinks....) could make an ideal mix and match multi component Battle Group : Twenty Eight M3 Fighters, ISR weapons, and as many medium to heavy missiles as they could carry.
Massive cargo Bays.
In Combat, two smaller Carriers, can be more useful than one smaller Carrier. Like an M6 on spaceweed

[Snafu_X3]

Getting back on the fight/energy laser debate, I made a simple test as I explained higher (but I wasn't very clear) : I loaded the Panther's cargo bay with 10 IBL, 16 FAA, 4 PALC, 12 PRG, 22 CIG, 22 ISR, etc... In other words, the max of each laser it can equip. Then I set MARS up and I left MARS manage weapons while in battle to see which weapons would be used a lot and for what end.

Presumably you scripted in the extra 2 PALCs; there are only 2 available in vanilla (& only then if you're lucky!)

I don't play a lot with missile (I sell the most valuable).

Look into missiles! Seriously! Some ships can only use missiles as their primary weapons (M7M, M8 ), but all ships can use them effectively if player-controlled (or even player-nudged ). A mosquito fab in almost any core sector requires only ore, food & ecells, & will keep all your MDM ships stocked while happily selling excess to the local EQD/MO, even if none of the NPC traders will buy (hint: put it in Paranid or Split space - they don't have their own fab so are more likely to trade).

Take a look at Sluggy's Xen and the art.. story series for effective ways of using missiles (& a good few laughs). Consider building your own medium-heavy missile plex(es) - after all, they can always be sold to EQDs if you need the cash. A few Firestorms tucked away in a spare freighter or two will net you a healthy bank balance even if you don't use 'em

Good luck!