Trade rank vs Combat rank

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

ThailandExpress
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon, 4. May 09, 02:16

Trade rank vs Combat rank

Post by ThailandExpress » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 19:30

The question (Humble Merchant start)
If you try to keep your combat ranking at harmless while trade rank grows, does this encourge pirates to attack you with reckless abandon?

The ramble
The reason why I ask is because I played for awhile to try and learn the game mechanics while I read and read and read :) the forums. I attacked with malice any pirate I came across while building up 14 or so E&ST freighters. Got to around 80 mil, a M6 and 12 M3s and a couple ore mines. I did not have too much trouble with pirates attacking my sats or freighters although they were annoying. They destroyed 2-3 E&STs and a few sats.

I started a new game and decided not to attack pirates (or anything) hoping they would leave me alone for awhile I built up some cash flow. It seemed as my trade rank reached around Petty Financier the pirates exploded everywhere especially in Teladi space. The teladi also dont seem to have much of a Navy either, in most of thier sectors (except core) not 1 combat ship. Which allows the pirates to hang around forever in those sectors. Since I was burying all my cash into freighters and adv. sats, I only have 1 M3. I am now very hard pressed to save my sats and protect my freighters from swarms of pirates.


X3TC v3.1
Mods I am running
[SCR] OOS Combat Rebalance (alpha 0.32 - 06.08.10)
[SCR] MARS Fire Control (v4.98 - 31.01.11)
by gazz
[SCR] Economy and Supply Trader v3.3.05 with Befehlsbibliothek_X3TC_V3508
by Lucikes
X³ Terran Conflict - Bonus Package 4.1.01
Remove Rocks from Universe by Graxster
X3-Unleashed by Jaga_Telesin (Release Candidate 2)
Universal Best Buys/Sells Locator v2.51 by alex2069
“If you talk to God, you are praying. If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia.”
Thomas S. Szasz

Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 30373
Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
x4

Post by Alan Phipps » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 19:42

I am guessing that on top of your different culling policy, there is also the randomness of Pirate patrol spawns and that the original Pirate Bases generating Pirate raider waves keep getting destroyed by NPC fleets. The Bases respawn somewhere randomly chosen in the approx area. Given your different control policy, random patrol spawning and randomly shifting Pirate Base locations, it would not be surprising that different games soon see much different Pirate dynamics in the same areas.

Teladi don't seem to mind Pirates as much as the other races, even when the Pirates are attacking Teladi stations.
Last edited by Alan Phipps on Mon, 21. Mar 11, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

wathman00
Posts: 568
Joined: Fri, 6. Feb 04, 21:02
x4

Post by wathman00 » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 19:45

Staying at harmless rank won't encourage or discourage pirates. If anything, you'll see more smaller pirate ships spawn in the universe as opposed to Pirate capitals. You could try making nice with pirates by doing missions for the pirate bases, you can get a good number of pirates to leave you completely alone, though there will always be ones that are aggressive to you no matter what, and if you deal with those, your pirate rep will go down.

Best advice to keep satellites intact is to place them above and below the main shipping lanes in sector. Most pirates won't go too far out of their way to take pot shots at a satellite. In sectors that frequently have satellites going missing, try putting one behind each gate. You won't be able to see too much of what's going on in the sector, but it allows you to still check prices, and have some idea of what's near the gates.

pjknibbs
Posts: 41359
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
x4

Post by pjknibbs » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 19:45

Pirates neither know nor care what your trade rank is. However, bear in mind that pirates will be destroyed by normal race ships, and since they often respawn at Teladi shipyards, you will tend to see a buildup of them in Teladi space. Oh, and it wouldn't help if the Teladi had a million ships in those sectors, because they don't shoot at pirates anyway--pirates and Teladi have an "arrangement".

jlehtone
Posts: 21801
Joined: Sat, 23. Apr 05, 21:42
x4

Re: Trade rank vs Combat rank

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 19:51

ThailandExpress wrote:The question (Humble Merchant start)
If you try to keep your combat ranking at harmless while trade rank grows, does this encourge pirates to attack you with reckless abandon?
Probably not.
ThailandExpress wrote:It seemed as my trade rank reached around Petty Financier the pirates exploded everywhere especially in Teladi space.
Likely coincidence. Something wasted many Pirates somewhere and they did respawn (randomly) in one area. (Do they still spawn at Teladi SY's, like they do in X3R?) I've seen occasional Pirate swarming in X3R with no obvious preceeding slaughter by any party.
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
There is no Box. I am the sand.

Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 30373
Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
x4

Post by Alan Phipps » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 19:54

I have seen Pirate patrols (incl Carracks with several Blastclaw escorts) just spawn out of thin air in the middle of Pirate-owned and Teladi sectors, and not anywhere near a Shipyard.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

ThailandExpress
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon, 4. May 09, 02:16

Post by ThailandExpress » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 20:05

pjknibbs wrote: ...respawn at Teladi shipyards, you will tend to see a buildup of them in Teladi space. Oh, and it wouldn't help if the Teladi had a million ships in those sectors, because they don't shoot at pirates anyway--pirates and Teladi have an "arrangement".
This I did not know.

Thanks for the replies folks, its just frustrating not to be able to potect my investments yet. So Im, furiously waiting for more money :)
“If you talk to God, you are praying. If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia.”
Thomas S. Szasz

Nanook
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 27829
Joined: Thu, 15. May 03, 20:57
x4

Re: Trade rank vs Combat rank

Post by Nanook » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 20:18

ThailandExpress wrote:....
I started a new game and decided not to attack pirates (or anything) hoping they would leave me alone for awhile I built up some cash flow. It seemed as my trade rank reached around Petty Financier the pirates exploded everywhere especially in Teladi space. The teladi also dont seem to have much of a Navy either, in most of thier sectors (except core) not 1 combat ship. Which allows the pirates to hang around forever in those sectors. Since I was burying all my cash into freighters and adv. sats, I only have 1 M3. I am now very hard pressed to save my sats and protect my freighters from swarms of pirates.
....
X3-Unleashed by Jaga_Telesin (Release Candidate 2)...
It's also possible this mod is part of what's happening. It reduces the number of traders in the game, a main target of pirates. These traders also take out a number of pirates on their own. So with fewer traders, the pirates are naturally going to be attacking your assets more. In your previous game, you took care of that by attacking them mercilessly. In your current game, your ships are just fodder. :pirat: :fg:
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

User avatar
StarSword
Posts: 2963
Joined: Fri, 31. Dec 10, 02:04
x3tc

Post by StarSword » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 20:18

Alan Phipps wrote:Teladi don't seem to mind Pirates as much as the other races, even when the Pirates are attacking Teladi stations.
They're freaking Teladi. They do business with the pirates. Yet another reason why, in the "Who would you declare war on" thread, I voted Teladi.

When I stopped playing last night, I was defending one of my own factories, a fighter drone factory in Blue Profit, from a trio of pirate M4s. When I arrived in system with my Panther, there's this Teladi Military Gannet just sort of wandering around, vaguely pointed in the pirates' direction. The Gannet would've turned the Elite and two Buzzards to rubble in nothing flat, but he must've been paid off by the pirates or something because he wasn't shooting missiles. Or anything. Meanwhile the station's shields are down to 80% and dropping, although they won't get much lower because my fighters are about to attack.

They shot at my property. I do not allow people to shoot at my property.
TC unless otherwise specified. | Find me on Steam! | My X3TC Links | X and X Rebirth @ TVTropes

JAFA_NZ
Posts: 556
Joined: Wed, 12. Jan 11, 05:47
x3tc

Post by JAFA_NZ » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 20:28

The Teladi don't need to be paid off by the Pirates, the Pirates work for them.

Historically the majority of "Pirates" (not "Privateers") were funded by "Honest Businessmen" & "Pillars of the Community" (When those Pirates weren't themselves the "Pillars of the Community").

They have to get their money & ships somewhere, there has to be someone willing to buy their loot, someone to sell them provisions & booze, & so on and so forth.

The Teladi are the X-Universes premier "Traders" & "Drug Peddlers", they don't pay bounties on Pirates, & they don't hunt Pirates.

Of course they own the Pirate clans, it's obvious.

TBV
Posts: 2260
Joined: Sun, 3. Apr 05, 01:58
x3tc

Post by TBV » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 20:28

When I arrived in system with my Panther, there's this Teladi Military Gannet just sort of wandering around, vaguely pointed in the pirates' direction. The Gannet would've turned the Elite and two Buzzards to rubble in nothing flat, but he must've been paid off by the pirates or something because he wasn't shooting missiles.
I don't think I've ever seen a NPC M7M launch any missiles at anything
since very early versions of the game. Not even when they are actively
attacked.

cj-spartacus
Posts: 2161
Joined: Mon, 30. Mar 09, 22:15
x3ap

Post by cj-spartacus » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 20:32

If you watch it carefully you'll see that the Teladi shipyard in Seizewell spawns random pirate ships. So there's more to the relationship between the Pirates and our scaly friends than they care to admit.
"Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken." - Tyler Durden

Nanook
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 27829
Joined: Thu, 15. May 03, 20:57
x4

Post by Nanook » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 21:13

Which is why the sneaky lizards will pay you a bounty for killing pirates, but won't give you a rep increase. Gotta keep up appearances for the other races, but they don't have to like it. :teladi: :fg:
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

User avatar
StarSword
Posts: 2963
Joined: Fri, 31. Dec 10, 02:04
x3tc

Post by StarSword » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 23:37

Well, in any case, as soon as I get back in the game, I'm gathering my offensive warships* (all five of them) and launching a major punitive raid. After I buy up every worthwhile mercenary in the place, the pirate base in Blue Profit is going to give resort guests on the planet a thrill ... when its rubble deorbits and burns up in the atmosphere. :twisted:

As I said, attacking my stations is not allowed. Period.


* I don't have much of a combat fleet at the moment. I've got my Panther and its fighter wings (admittedly a force to be reckoned with), a partially armed Boreas, a Skiron, and a Centaur. (I don't count my Heavy Nemesis, Star Stinger, because it doesn't have the cargo space (read, "jumpdrive range") for offensive missions. It's staying at the Hub to keep an eye on things while the Triumph and Tenchu head over to Blue Profit.) And I'm going to buy and equip another M7 for this raid, a Deimos I think. (Probably overkill, but like I've quoted before, "Overkill is underrated.")
TC unless otherwise specified. | Find me on Steam! | My X3TC Links | X and X Rebirth @ TVTropes

cj-spartacus
Posts: 2161
Joined: Mon, 30. Mar 09, 22:15
x3ap

Post by cj-spartacus » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 23:42

Cap an Aran and you'll never have to worry about battle fleet jump range ever again.
"Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken." - Tyler Durden

jlehtone
Posts: 21801
Joined: Sat, 23. Apr 05, 21:42
x4

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 23:46

StarSword wrote:As I said, attacking my stations is not allowed. Period.
Musashi did list three ways to win:
  • Your opponent strikes and you kill him.
  • Both of you attack simultaneously and you kill him.
  • You kill your opponent before he does anything.
In the first case you would look like a victim with just cause. Apparently, you don't want that to happen. Ever. :split:

User avatar
StarSword
Posts: 2963
Joined: Fri, 31. Dec 10, 02:04
x3tc

Post by StarSword » Mon, 21. Mar 11, 23:59

jlehtone wrote:
StarSword wrote:As I said, attacking my stations is not allowed. Period.
Musashi did list three ways to win:
  • Your opponent strikes and you kill him.
  • Both of you attack simultaneously and you kill him.
  • You kill your opponent before he does anything.
In the first case you would look like a victim with just cause. Apparently, you don't want that to happen. Ever. :split:
I dunno, I don't think about it like that. I just know that if you don't strike back, they'll keep hitting you. So I'm taking the fight to them.
cj-spartacus wrote:Cap an Aran and you'll never have to worry about battle fleet jump range ever again.
I've only got a few marines. Five of them (fairly well trained) died with my Dragon Fierce Allegiance when she ran afoul of a big Kha'ak cluster and couldn't jump fast enough. And five elite marines disappeared with my Heavy Hydra Brennan's Courage, which just vanished into thin air. (Or thin space, I should say.) Right now, my Skiron is training a marine complement in Ghinn's Escape.

Plus, I've made several jumps with the UJD, and apart from asteroids and a bunch of poor lost Xenon fighters, have yet to find anything.
TC unless otherwise specified. | Find me on Steam! | My X3TC Links | X and X Rebirth @ TVTropes

cj-spartacus
Posts: 2161
Joined: Mon, 30. Mar 09, 22:15
x3ap

Post by cj-spartacus » Tue, 22. Mar 11, 00:12

StarSword wrote:...I've made several jumps with the UJD, and apart from asteroids and a bunch of poor lost Xenon fighters, have yet to find anything.
Yes that is the annoying bit. The RNG is sometimes with you but most of the time it just doesn't care what you want. It took me at least 50 UF jumps to find my Aran. She came with a pitiful 7% hull so I stuck her in the HQ for RE but if you are willing to spend the cash (or several hours for manual repair) then you could get her into the action straight away!
"Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken." - Tyler Durden

JAFA_NZ
Posts: 556
Joined: Wed, 12. Jan 11, 05:47
x3tc

Post by JAFA_NZ » Tue, 22. Mar 11, 00:12

Marines are cheap enough, important enough, & slow enough to train that I recommend picking up a TP, loading it with 10 of the best Marines available at the nearest stockist, & sending it somewhere to train them.

I admittedly went a little overboard, & have spent something like 50 Million on marines & Iguanas (Not the best choice), but I now have 24 trained marines, & 130+(/140+?) in training.

By trained I mean both 3* Mech & 3* Hack on all of them I'm willing to deploy at the moment & getting their for the rest. Part of the reason it cost so much is many of them also picked up 2 or 3 * of Eng (also, most training courses were "Advanced").

Catra
Posts: 7754
Joined: Mon, 12. Oct 09, 21:54

Post by Catra » Tue, 22. Mar 11, 00:30

You don't need to keep buying TPs, the outpost will gladly hold the marines untill transports come to get them.

As for a training schedule:

alternate between adv mech and hack up to 3 stars, then alternate between quick hack mech and normal engi untill everyones ready.

For xenon cappers:

Advanced all up to 3 stars, then alternate between normal hack engi mech up to 100.

Post Reply

Return to “X Trilogy Universe”