[TC] about shadows and ghouls...

[deca.death]

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now i'm reading little about missiles, damage, types etc. for my second military production complex (terran stations just got available) and two illogical things (typos?) caught my eye:

ghoul missile is earth counterpart of flail. most of their characteristics are striking similar, from damage, speed, cargo occupies up to price with just few small differences, EXCEPT one really major difference, range which is /10 for earth missile. just 5.62 km. it seems like someone misplaced decimal dot one place left (flail has range of 58.6km)

shadow missile is counterpart of hammer torpedo. again, many similar stats but few major differences. shadow is listed as swarm, now most of swarm missiles have damage listed PER HEAD not altogether. if that true, 755 k damage * 8 transfers in whooping 6 mils of damage. jftr hammerhead has 1.25 mil and it was always listed as most powerful missile in game. so this missile is not swarm or what? btw even if not swarm it is more then twice stronger then hammer.

any insights on that subject?

and btw, if you ever wandered ...

poltergaist is type of heavy wasp. twice damage twice slower. unlike wasp, it will acquire new target if previous destroyed.
spectre is like kind of short range weaker hornet.
phantom is counterpart of tomahawk but occupies 1 cargo instead of two = twice the fun.
shadow and ghoul are hammers and flails. really powerful hammers and really short range flails if info is right.
btw terran M7M can't fire pods :-( but could level sectors :-)+


EDIT
same info for ghoul ion both excell x3 scripts, that gargantuan "X3TC Stats Compendm V3.0 2" and smaller "X3 Ship Stats"

[Deadbeat_Spinn]

IIRC the Ghoul has a 50+km range to it.

The Shadow is indeed a swarm based missile, so yes, each warhead does 755k damage (times 8 ). The downside to the Shadow is that it's a bit impractical for boarding purposes due to the sheer amount of damage it causes. It's something that's best suited for wiping out a sizeable chunk of the universe in a very short time frame.

[Catra]

Ghouls was fixed to be 56.280(that or you aint reading it right, its an old guide, or the poster put it wrong)

The hammerhead isn't swarm. The shadow is, and yes damage listed for missiles is always per warhead.

[Rhox]

Well, you have just realised that the shadow missile is actually the most powerful missile in the game, making 6,05 GJ of damage when all warheads hit. That makes it the ideal weapon for a complete and very fast sector sweep...
But here comes the negative aspect: it can only be used by the ATF M7M, the Skirnir, which is not actually easy getting your hands on (even though it can be done)

As for the ghoul missile: I think the values for its range are wrong, it actually has 20 km range as far as I remember (I have to admit, however, that I just have very little Ghouls as the Ghoul factory was closed by GOD in my game)

Rhox

[deca.death]

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getting skirnir is not a problem (just started to board xenon ships...) but i've decided not to include it in production complex anyway. this game is easy enough as it is, no need to add -i win- button, really. wraiths and firestorms will do.

[TryckSh0t]

Yeah, I love Terran missiles, although I did change the Shadows so they don't swarm anymore, a single 755K warhead is quite enough, especially when it's salvo fired anyway. The only real downside with Terran missiles is they are painfully slow. Poltergeists are the only really effective anti-fighter missile, but they're generally too slow to catch M5s and don't pack enough punch to really threaten a decent M3. M4's, for the most part, go down to 'em in fairly short order. Spectres are definitely too slow to use against most fighters, and I generally don't feel like wasting a 260k damage missile on one anyway, but they are excellent against M6's. Wraiths...well, wraiths just feel like cheating. Anything M7 or larger needs to fear these beasts. Ghouls and shadows, on the other hand, are actually quite zippy, hit like a freakin' hammer, and, IMO, rank number 2 and 3 on my most OP weapons list.

[deca.death]

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true, true
spectre is like kind of short range weaker hornet.

i'm uncertain what to feed my springy with. judging from my current use (of missiles i produce and have plenty) i use much more wasps then powerful typhoons (they have same damage as spectre but swarm) with hype v.

now thing is, springy really needs no missiles, that ship is so ridiculously overpowered. it exterminates anything small with SSCs and anything up to M7 with hit'n run MAMLs. it could take out anything but there is no need to overdo - destroyers and bombers are only jump away.

anyway i produce wasps, typhoons as general combat missiles. hammers, flails and tomahawks as special missiles. for further i had in mind

wraiths - self explanatory
firestorms - heavy class general use torpedo
tempest - alternative to typhoon
hurricane - alternative to wasp

that seem OK?

[TryckSh0t]

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true, true
spectre is like kind of short range weaker hornet.

i'm uncertain what to feed my springy with. judging from my current use (of missiles i produce and have plenty) i use much more wasps then powerful typhoons (they have same damage as spectre but swarm) with hype v.

now thing is, springy really needs no missiles, that ship is so ridiculously overpowered. it exterminates anything small with SSCs and anything up to M7 with hit'n run MAMLs. it could take out anything but there is no need to overdo - destroyers and bombers are only jump away.

anyway i produce wasps, typhoons as general combat missiles. hammers, flails and tomahawks as special missiles. for further i had in mind

wraiths - self explanatory
firestorms - heavy class general use torpedo
tempest - alternative to typhoon
hurricane - alternative to wasp

that seem OK?

I wouldn't use anything as a Wasp alternative, IMO they're the most effective M5 swatter in the game, and also great for spoofing turrets. Firestorm and Wraiths are both pretty fantabulous, so produce away, I don't use M7M's or M8's anymore, so those my go-to heavy hitters. Tempests are also pretty solid, though I'd say any of the self-targeting missiles should probably be a mainstay for your fleet.

And just for the record, Spectres deal 60K more damage than hornets, and are slightly faster.

[deca.death]

I wouldn't use anything as a Wasp alternative,

i didn't mean OR alternative, rather AND alternative :-)
same for other missiles

i opted for swarm missiles in first megaplex, which are great but all those dancing around in circles around target ... i want something that launches and hits quickly - with no dancing ;-)

And just for the record, Spectres deal 60K more damage than hornets, and are slightly faster.

well yes
they have blast radius of only 20 /hornet 100
and range of 6 /hornet 30

other stats are pretty much alike

[Nanook]

...

And just for the record, Spectres deal 60K more damage than hornets, and are slightly faster.

well yes
they have blast radius of only 20 /hornet 100
and range of 6 /hornet 30

other stats are pretty much alike

Spectres actually have a range of 24.7 km, according to the ingame encyclopedia.

[TryckSh0t]

i opted for swarm missiles in first megaplex, which are great but all those dancing around in circles around target ... i want something that launches and hits quickly - with no dancing

Tempests or Thunderbolts are definitely your best bet then. Tempests are like having heavy flails. Sure, they don't swarm, but you can just fire 'em into the middle of an enemy sector and watch the fireworks. Plus they hit like a freaking hammer to the face.

Thunderbolts have the same speed and similar range, but hit even harder. They don't reacquire targets...at least not that I've noticed. However, I think you can fire 'em without a target and they'll lock onto the first hostile heat source they come across. Pretty fun to just lob 'em into sector and watch 'em fly all over the place.

[deca.death]

Spectres actually have a range of 24.7 km, according to the ingame encyclopedia.

darn, i should definitely update my info /or doublecheck it

often i found on three different sites three different information about same thing :-)

[Triaxx2]

Shadow is dangerous. Especially to you. Since it loves to go after M5's and fly through things. Like M2's.

That's not funny. At all.

[StarSword]

i opted for swarm missiles in first megaplex, which are great but all those dancing around in circles around target ... i want something that launches and hits quickly - with no dancing

Tempests or Thunderbolts are definitely your best bet then. Tempests are like having heavy flails. Sure, they don't swarm, but you can just fire 'em into the middle of an enemy sector and watch the fireworks. Plus they hit like a freaking hammer to the face.

Thunderbolts have the same speed and similar range, but hit even harder. They don't reacquire targets...at least not that I've noticed. However, I think you can fire 'em without a target and they'll lock onto the first hostile heat source they come across. Pretty fun to just lob 'em into sector and watch 'em fly all over the place.

This complex, which I built in Rhonkar's Clouds, builds Thunderbolts and Silkworms. Silkworms are slightly slower than Tbolts and have a smaller warhead, but also seem to have a smaller turning circle. They're also light and cheap. Overall, very effective against M4 and M5, though sometimes you need to time your launch a little. I use both in my M3s, and Thunderbolts in my light capitals. (For my Solanos, I favor wasps.)

And I think Thunderbolts actually will retarget.

As far as swarm missiles go, one of the coolest is the Poltergeist in my opinion. Limited number of ships that can carry it, but it's hard to beat a retargeting swarm missile for effectiveness as a fighter weapon, especially if you go up against the Kha'ak. I recently used them with my X Shuttle to destroy the biggest Kha'ak cluster after it had separated. I used Spectres to take out the M3 (fired two, and one got through, though I was hoping it had a blast radius), then fired a Poltergeist each at five of the M5s. Since they retarget, the salvo ended up taking out about two-thirds of the Scouts. I finished the job with lasers at close range.

[deca.death]

And I think Thunderbolts actually will retarget.

afaik only this types actually do (if someone knows or has seen otherwise, please update list)

- Flail barrage /M7M
- Hammer heavy torp /M7M
- Tommahawk /M8
- Tempest
- Wildfire
- Remote Guided Warhead

- Poltergeist
- Shadow /M7M
- Phantom /M8
- Ghoul /M7M

[Choublanc]

About Ghoul missile.

The bad news is that it is almost unavailable in the game:
- Impossible to buy a Ghoul factory
- Impossible to clone the missile
So the only way to use it is to “rescue” from GOD the one or two Ghoul fabs which are supposedly existing early in the game (never seem them myself). Than the fabs must be supplied: not that easy according to a some month’s old thread.

The good news is that the Skirnir doesn’t really need Ghoul missiles, as the Shadow is fast and agile enough to destroy everything from M3 to M2.
Remaining M4/M5 can live, as witnesses of the horror your Skirnir spread around

[Bill Huntington]

Watching a Shadow swarm come in on a target is a thing of beauty. I like to put the target in one of the overhead monitors, and watch it come in. Since it is a swarm, it makes it difficult even for an active defence to shoot them all down. All those nukes, hit after hit, then ... gone.

The Ghoul is a very effective anti-fighter missile, more powerful than Poltergeist. I always run out of them. And the Skirnir is the only ship that can use them, I believe. The Shadow can be cloned. But there is no site where the Ghoul can be cloned.

[Choublanc]

Watching a Shadow swarm come in on a target is a thing of beauty. I like to put the target in one of the overhead monitors, and watch it come in. Since it is a swarm, it makes it difficult even for an active defence to shoot them all down. All those nukes, hit after hit, then ... gone.

Yes, incredible view, The Ultimate Weapon. The Shadow is slower than the Flail, but almost as agile (same script?)

In comparison, the Wraith (also swarm) is a pity: the 8 heads, are flying together and turn in a lazy way and at only 175 km/s so they are easy prey for the turrets. And the Wraith's cooldown time is many seconds higher (at least 7 I would say), when you can launch manually 1 Shadow per second. The Typhoon is clearly better for the Hype, imho.

[mordtech]

spectre is like kind of short range weaker hornet? don't think so.. spectre has 250k damage to the hornets 100k and is also faster, and cheaper

[Nanook]

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And I think Thunderbolts actually will retarget.....

Nope. Sorry, they don't.

spectre is like kind of short range weaker hornet? don't think so.. spectre has 250k damage to the hornets 100k and is also faster, and cheaper

Hornet is 200, and Spectre is 260. Hornet can only be fired by M6's and above, and Spectre is a Terran-only weapon. So apples and oranges. You really have to take into account what ship you're using when deciding on the 'best' missiles.