Needless Annoyances in Terran Conflict

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

Lorderan
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun, 8. May 11, 13:12

Needless Annoyances in Terran Conflict

Post by Lorderan » Fri, 13. May 11, 16:43

First off I want to say how incredible Terran conflict is. There are some really awesome aspects: Massive universe, incredibly diverse numbers of ships and endless ways of playing the game. I want to get a feel from the community about the below issues and whether others agree with my suggestions, further I hope these suggestions will be implemented in Rebirth.

Feel there are some game breaking features of the game that dramatically limits its appeal to new players and annoyances to die hard players as well. This critique is in no way a call to ‘dumb’ down the game. I won’t mention the lack of tutorial, I’m sure others have covered that.

1. Not able to save in space unless you have salvage insurance. This is pointless. For the more experienced players having salvage insurance is absolutely inconsequential. Whats $3,000 when your making $60 million a day? But to a new player its expensive and just bloody annoying. Does it make the game more challenging? Or is it just another time sink?

Suggestion: Saving in space.

2. Time it takes to fly from point A to B. I don’t know about you but I don’t really enjoy spending 5 minutes getting from one place to the other. Again whats the point? Does it make it any harder? Does it make the game more challenging? No, it is just a needless time sink.

Suggestion: SETA x20 when flying only.

3. Auto-pilot’s in-ability to actually fly places without occasionally crashing into things and instant death. Autopilot is absolutely necessary in this game due to the aforementioned time sink flying from point A to B. Many people would argue that autopilot crashing into things is realistic, but is it really? What high tech futuristic guidance system wouldn’t have an automatic collision avoidance system? Anyone?

Suggestion: Automatic collision avoidance system while using auto-pilot.

These are just a few of my complaints of an otherwise breath taking game. I’m usually the first one to scream ‘don’t dumb down our bloody games’, but I feel these issues are not absolutely essential features of what makes Terran Conflict such a great game, but are just annoyances and time wasting features. Do others agree? If the die hard players don’t like these features, it wouldn’t be that difficult to keep salvage insurance, slow flying and auto-pilot collisions as an optional features in the difficulty section.

Looking forward to your responses.

Infekted
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon, 1. Mar 10, 19:47
x3tc

Post by Infekted » Fri, 13. May 11, 16:54

1. Ehh I pretty much agree.

2. Get a turbo booster. Jumpdrive+Turbo+Seta = Hardly anytime to get anywhere.

3. Pathing has long been a bug bear. Tho it is hard to path so many objects at once, independantly.

User avatar
eldyranx3
Posts: 2178
Joined: Sat, 14. Jan 06, 21:29
xr

Re: Needless Annoyances in Terran Conflict

Post by eldyranx3 » Fri, 13. May 11, 17:08

Lorderan wrote: further I hope these suggestions will be implemented in Rebirth. | Looking forward to your responses.
If you are really interested in helping shape the future of the X-Series, consider signing up for DevNet. As for Rebirth, chances are the features are set in stone already.

Catra
Posts: 7754
Joined: Mon, 12. Oct 09, 21:54

Post by Catra » Fri, 13. May 11, 17:19

1) Its better than a boring old save button.....

2) Lol, seriously brah?

3) Its not (always) the autopilots fault, (sometimes) its the poor mix of stats on ships that make stuff crash. There's a lot of ship rebalances floating about that fix the issue nicely.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.

Lorderan
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun, 8. May 11, 13:12

Post by Lorderan » Fri, 13. May 11, 17:33

1. I'm perfectly fine with a 'boring' save button. Why salvage insurance would be edgy and exciting is beyond me.
2. Yep, I was serious. Spending 10 mins flying place to place is not fun. Faster flying is already a feature of the game (seta), what's so wrong with it being less time consuming?
3. Hence the suggestion for collision avoidance.

Lorderan
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun, 8. May 11, 13:12

Post by Lorderan » Fri, 13. May 11, 17:37

Thanks for the tip eldy will check devnet. Thanks infekted for the turbo tip.

User avatar
EmperorJon
Posts: 9378
Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 08, 20:58
x3tc

Post by EmperorJon » Fri, 13. May 11, 17:50

1. It's to stop the ease of players just saving and reloading, saving and reloading etc. I also think it adds an interesting touch. Never had any problems with it.

2. SETA 10x already has major negative impact on the game performance on many machines.

3. Autopilot has always been stupid, in the entire history of the series. It's hard, expensive and time consuming to improve. We can only hope for Rebirth.
______
I'm Jon. I'm mostly not around any more. If you want to talk, please message me! It's cool.
______

Fattyfat
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu, 5. May 11, 04:03

Post by Fattyfat » Fri, 13. May 11, 17:56

I'm a new player, and as far as I can tell the X-Universe games have always had those kinds of hardcore differences from other games. I haven't played the others, but I have read about them.

As far as salvage insurance goes, I took it the opposite way - I had been flying around for eight or so hours, docking every half hour to make sure I had a hard save to go back to, and then poof I found salvage insurance - it was the greatest upgrade ever. I like this feature, and I find it more rewarding than a simple save button. It feels like I've earned my savegame.

Faster flying is an interesting point, but traveling and exploration as far as I can tell have been trademarks of the X-Universe games. Since I haven't played the others, I can't say for sure and I have to make my opinion just from TC alone. Faster SETA seems like an okay deal to me really. But there really are faster ways to get around already - either turbo, or hop in a Kestral (Teladi shipyards I think?) tune it up to maximum, and hit that SETA. You'll notice that in comparison to your mercury freighter, you're moving 6x faster. I swear in some sectors you can get from one gate to the other before a jumpdrive would even kick in.

I think part of the auto pilot crashes has to do with rudder optimizations and such, and though it has some kind of realistic twinge to it, I have to agree, there is no way anyone would buy an autopilot system for their several million space buck starship if it was well known to crash. Wouldn't happen. Thing is, I don't think it is "meant" to be this way, it is just a limitation of the engine.

All in all, I have to admit I don't care - I'm addicted in a bad way, whether the game has issues or not. It's too good to -not- play it.

Catra
Posts: 7754
Joined: Mon, 12. Oct 09, 21:54

Post by Catra » Fri, 13. May 11, 18:05

1) Its called immersion, that's what makes salvage insurance interesting.

2) There's a lot to do when you're flying to make it less "ugh", a large portion of the time, even early game, gate transition / docking complete interrupts what I'm doing.

3) There is collision avoidance. Just that in most situations, the cause is more of the poor mix of stats / CPU overload(due to SETA) / where autopilot is activated, rather than it being faulty.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.

ancienthighway
Posts: 1663
Joined: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 05:25
x4

Post by ancienthighway » Fri, 13. May 11, 18:19

I started playing X3:TC in January, after a long break from X2:TT and X3:R. The "game breaking features" you mention had no bearing at all on me getting back into the game, or even starting the game way back with X2:TT.

1. I've rarely bought salvage insurance at any time. It's second nature to me to dock at a nearby station when I'm moving from point A to point B. Mashing a save key every five minutes would be quickly forgotten for me. Which, btw, is one reason I don't buy salvage insurance; I'd forget to use it.

2. 20x SETA? You'd have no time to react to anything. Combine this with Autopilot and you'll be reloading all those 5 minute saves you made with the save button. And then there's the computer performance and computer overheating problems.

3. The only problems I've had with crashes while running on autopilot are with the fastest M5s with full engine upgrades. I do like to see Pirate M5s crashing into the stations they are defending though. When any other ship starts it's anti collision maneuvers, I'll take control of the ship until it has a clear path, then go back on autopilot. Sure, I'd like autopilot to be better, but unless X-Rebirth went through a major paradigm shift, don't expect it to be any different.

I autosave when docking. I rarely use SETA; I'm managing my factories and other ships while I'm traveling. I take control of my ship when collision is possible. It's all part of the game experience. It keeps me involved with the game between combat instances, plots, missions, and station building.

User avatar
X2-Illuminatus
Moderator (Deutsch)
Moderator (Deutsch)
Posts: 24950
Joined: Sun, 2. Apr 06, 16:38
x4

Post by X2-Illuminatus » Fri, 13. May 11, 18:38

1. Salvage Insurances are a challenge for beginners. A new player discovering the universe has to take into account that he can't save everywhere. It does its bit to create a threatening atmosphere. It's also a good way to implement a needed feature into the game's realism. I like that.

2. Well, it's a space game, where one feature is the ability to fly with most of the ships, isn't it? So flying is a part of the game. Also as we know from Douglas Adams, space is big, really big. I don't see the problem here.

3. I don't have many problems with the autopilot. But sure, it's far from being perfect.
Nun verfügbar! X3: Farnham's Legacy - Ein neues Kapitel für einen alten Favoriten

Die komplette X-Roman-Reihe jetzt als Kindle E-Books! (Farnhams Legende, Nopileos, X3: Yoshiko, X3: Hüter der Tore, X3: Wächter der Erde)

Neuauflage der fünf X-Romane als Taschenbuch

The official X-novels Farnham's Legend, Nopileos, X3: Yoshiko as Kindle e-books!

VincentTH
Posts: 6626
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
x4

Post by VincentTH » Fri, 13. May 11, 19:08

X2-Illuminatus wrote:3. I don't have many problems with the autopilot. But sure, it's far from being perfect.
I take that you have never played DiD. Crashing because of the autopillock is not fun.
The autopilot is fine, but I would suggest that Collision should be DISABLED when the autopilot is on.

Nanook
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 27829
Joined: Thu, 15. May 03, 20:57
x4

Post by Nanook » Fri, 13. May 11, 19:12

If you play DiD, you'd be wise to never use the autopilot on your own ship. :goner: If you don't, then autopilot is never a problem. :wink:
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

jlehtone
Posts: 21801
Joined: Sat, 23. Apr 05, 21:42
x4

Post by jlehtone » Fri, 13. May 11, 19:26

X2-Illuminatus wrote:1. Salvage Insurances are a challenge for beginners. A new player discovering the universe has to take into account that he can't save everywhere. It does its bit to create a threatening atmosphere. It's also a good way to implement a needed feature into the game's realism. I like that.
Was it not so that in the earliest games no save was free? In that perspective the free station saving is luxury, and luxury is never compulsory. :goner:

A save button in DiD sounds intriguing though.


Flight time. SETA is not an answer. High-speed drive as replacement for SETA could be a solution. But as others have said, there is never enough time on voyages. Study the art of MORT. :teladi:


Technically, all the red ships do use auto-pilot. Combat without collision detection could result in interesting threads on the Fora. :twisted:

User avatar
Ripskar
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon, 22. Feb 10, 19:18
x3ap

Post by Ripskar » Fri, 13. May 11, 19:57

Why on Earth would anyone use autopilot on their own ship?
Point nose in direction you wish to travel, increase throttle. Hit SETA if you have the attention span of a goldfish...
Do you miss dangerous pirates?
Try leading the target a little more...

ImageCobra Mk. III Cmdr.

ancienthighway
Posts: 1663
Joined: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 05:25
x4

Post by ancienthighway » Fri, 13. May 11, 20:03

Autopilot on your personal ship will avoid collisions with other ships in heavily trafficked routes. The collision avoidance on those NPC ships seem to never kick in to avoid me.

Autopilot, yes. Unattended autopilot, no.

User avatar
Ripskar
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon, 22. Feb 10, 19:18
x3ap

Post by Ripskar » Fri, 13. May 11, 20:39

Never had a crash even in Terran sectors except at TOAs.
Point nose slightly off the ecliptic and nothing comes within 3km.
Do you miss dangerous pirates?
Try leading the target a little more...

ImageCobra Mk. III Cmdr.

Lorderan
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun, 8. May 11, 13:12

Post by Lorderan » Sat, 14. May 11, 01:56

Thanks for the replies guys. Some good points. Rereading my post I think "game breaking' features is a bit hyperbolic, how about 'newbie player running away screaming into the night features'? I say this because a number of responses say how beneficial some of the negative features I pointed out are. And from those responses I would broadly agree. However, I feel some slight changes could be made to make the game at least start less punishing to new players. Now I would agree that the incredibly harsh punishment of the current game maybe why it attracted you to the game in the first place, however, I would argue such a harsh beginning for new players is off putting to 95% of newbies. Especially when the harshness of these features diminish at latter time points of the game and become less concerning for the established player.

1. Salvage insurance.
EmperorJon "It's to stop the ease of players just saving and reloading, saving and reloading" Very good point.

Fattyfat "then poof I found salvage insurance......It feels like I've earned my save game." Would agree and interesting way of looking at it.

Maybe for newbie players you have 5-10 free items of Salvage Insurance at the beginning but then your on your own. That would make sense because you've got a free ship at the beginning and your employers don't trust you yet. This way the new player can be introduced to the system.
Suggestion: 5-10 free salvage insurance when starting.

2. Flight time. Again some good points. Turbo-boost sounds like it will fix my problem with flight times. However, 1,845,524 cr price tag and a separate downloadable script? As it stands for a newbie player it would be nice to know about faster flying. That way you can have a goal within game to get the faster flying. I can definitely imagine the moment you get Turbo-boost would be a relief. Further, some have argued that there is already so much to do when your flying from point A to B that increasing flight speed is pointless. I would agree, but only at latter time points. As a newbie you’ve got absolutely nothing to do other than look at a screen for 5 minutes (painful).
I agree SETA x20 will simply break some computers. How about high speed cruising mode when flying. Only available 100 km from any hostile targets and weapons are offline. Removes the need for scripts and cannot be used as a “cheat’ in combat.
Suggestion: High speed cruising mode.


3. Auto-pilot crash. The consensus is that auto-pilot crashing is not meant to really be in the game, its just a ruminant of difficulty in righting the code. How about removing the insta death aspect of it. Very high damage to your ship but you atleast have the option of getting out of your ship and repairing. You still get punished for running into something.
Suggestion: No insta death when colliding with objects.

ancienthighway
Posts: 1663
Joined: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 05:25
x4

Post by ancienthighway » Sat, 14. May 11, 02:28

Just today my Sabre had a kill mission on a pilot of a Nova. Fortunately for me, the Nova didn't think to return fire until I had already stripped the shields from it. Dog fight and the ageless game of chicken ensue, along with the inevitable collision. Nova lost most of it's remaining hull points. Sabre lost shields and a modest amount of hull points.

Same Sabre needing to clear out a number of Kha'ak Scouts. Let's play chicken again and watch the light show in front of your personal ship.

A collision isn't an automatic game reload. The X version of physics, i.e., velocity and mass, appears to calculate damage done to each ship.

Catra
Posts: 7754
Joined: Mon, 12. Oct 09, 21:54

Post by Catra » Sat, 14. May 11, 03:50

1) Don't think a change is needed really, saving is pretty straightforward.

2) As a newbie I had lots to do. Granted that "lots to do" was vastly different from the lots to do that I do now. As for Cruise mode, there's turbo boost, sure its a separate DL but eh, so is CAG / CLS. and SETA, which IMO acts as a fine cruise mode pre-turbo boost.

3) You don't instantly die all the time. ships can ram other ships and survive, provided they meet the right criteria. You can also survive a few seconds of being inside a ship / station, and if you're going slow enough, you -can- survive hitting an M5 against a stations hull. Yes, its meant to be there.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.

Post Reply

Return to “X Trilogy Universe”