[X3TC] What Price Victory? (Acceptable Loss for Boarding Agamemnon)

[MarvinTheMartian]

It's their fault, taunting me with no less than 2 Agamemnons meandering around Pontifex' Seclusion. They looked quite bored.

So, my third boarding attempt (after HV and Aran) and the first time I've needed to reload to get the prize, not because of unacceptable losses but a complete failure to capture the ship, however, I'm now finally the proud owner of an Agamemnon with 95% hull, no shields and 5 FAA. (EDIT: and "only" 23% rep hit from 100% Honour Guard of Xaar)

I wondered why it was so difficult at first, then I realised I'd picked the one with Internal Sentry Lasers and Hull Polarisation!

So picking on the weaker of the two instead and I'm still failing to get past deck 3. But, after only 5 reloads it's mine for the loss of 4 marines (2x5* fighting 2x4* fighting, all 5* in other skills) and no sign of the 11 IBLs that were on board when I started

It's now that I realise that I probably could have sent 20 marines rather than 6! Heck, I might even have capped the first ship. It's bugging me now though whether I would have had fewer losses and more equipment had I'd sent in more marines, could I have sacrificed a few 2* or 3* fighters instead of the 4&5*?

Was I just really lucky to take an M7 with just 6 marines and be thankful to have it with 95% hull or is it worth grabbing a few more marines and trying again?

Cheers

Marv

[BeardyDan]

Lucky may be the understatement of the year!

Given the training time involved with marines I'd be tempted to re-load, especially if you don't have the weapons to outfit it atm.
Generally speaking its best to send as many marines as the ship can hold.
Since I started using all 100 Mechanical Marines with pods Hull Polarisation hasn't stopped a single Commonwealth boarding attempt yet.

[MarvinTheMartian]

For some reason I had 6 marines being the number required stuck in my head, of course that's widely acknowledged as the number for an M6, the irony being that when I went to cap the HV I sent 12! and lost 4

While I'd rather not lose good men I don't generally reload when I make a dumb mistake, I am interested to see how the outcome might change if I sent 20 marines instead so may reload to see and unless the outcome is spectacular (a few IBLs would be nice) will probably stick with what I have now as I can fully equip it with everything but IBLs.

One for the morning, getting to late now.

Cheers

[twilight_echoes]

The more you use the less you lose. There's no reason at all not to send in 20 marines - in fact, it helps to train your lower fight skill marines alongside tougher counterparts.

I'm amazed you boarded it with 6 marines, though much depends what version you are running.

The only reason for using less than the maximum allowable marines I can think of - is if you only have a few with high engineering skills and want to use just those to maximise the hull % of the ship you have boarded.

[Alan Phipps]

Numbers of marines make no difference to the loot left onboard. That is just random chance of batches of whatever was aboard at the time and changes each time you reload before the hack. Poor engineering might cause the loss of a few individual things while boarding just like any other hull damage, but not whole batches of a type.

[deca.death]

I wondered why it was so difficult at first, then I realised I'd picked the one with Internal Sentry Lasers and Hull Polarisation!

First beginner's mistake. Make a habit to scan. Not only boarding targets but all potentially difficult or dangerous targets.

But, after only 5 reloads it's mine for the loss of 4 marines (2x5* fighting 2x4* fighting, all 5* in other skills) and no sign of the 11 IBLs that were on board when I started :(

Loot is randomly determined after "hacking core" is done. Save and reload few times, you'll see. Deck by deck save is highly advised on difficult boardings.

Heck, I might even have capped the first ship. It's bugging me now though whether I would have had fewer losses and more equipment had I'd sent in more marines, could I have sacrificed a few 2* or 3* fighters instead of the 4&5*?

If you have sent 20 marines as you should, even medium trained, you would probably have 0 losses. Loot is, as I've said, randomly picked.

[nponoBegHuk]

Once you get your marines to 100% every skill, you won't be scanning your targets, ever

[Hubert99]

That's reassuring. I hate to risk the lives of my men. So far, I have only 7 heros of war; only three survived boarding a Minotaur using a TP.

[SIMON POPPLEWELL]

Worth noting you can get a lone Aggy that passes through two pirate sectors on it's patrol (Desecrated Skies and Moo-kyes Revenge). I take advantage of this and use them for trainning my marines. It's alway best to send max amount of marines on these ops, even 20 rookies should be able to capture them with zero casualties. Got one last night with 8 IBLs and a jumpdrive, not a bad catch imo.

[MarvinTheMartian]

I'm amazed you boarded it with 6 marines, though much depends what version you are running.

I was watching the property screen: Deck 1 - all made it, Deck 2 - 1 man down, Deck 3 - 5 men!
That's why I was so confused, why was I losing 5 men at a time?! Now I know of course.
3.1 Vanilla btw

First beginner's mistake. Make a habit to scan. Not only boarding targets but all potentially difficult or dangerous targets.

To be fair, I did scan but completely missed the sentry lasers somehow, I knew there was hull plating but figured the BPs will negate most of that give the team were 5*

Will be trying with more marines later today.

[MarvinTheMartian]

Well, that was better.

Won the first Aggy with no loss so turned right around and apologised to the other one while I picked my marines up to relieve him of his ship too.

By the time I'd loaded my marines and jumped Aggy1 out of harms way he'd wondered off into Friars Retreat so I jumped over to the North gate in there and sent 17 Hammers on their merry way with a flail escort. After a couple of reloads negotiating the sentry lasers all 20 marines were kicking back with a few brews on board Aggy2

So, who do I have to apologise to for my indiscretion? You're joking. Another Aggy? Why not.

I don't usually brag but then I'm not usually in possession of 3 Agamemnons with 5 FAAs, 4 1GJ Shiels, 11 ISRs and 24IBLs!

Think I might like this boarding buisness

[Progress-M]

Haha well done!

It's fine to brag a bit, it feels good to get some boarding done

[David Howland]

Congratulations on an eventual satisfactory outcome, personally I would have been satisfied with your original ( disapointing ) outcome, accepting the losses and learning the lessons. I must admit though I used to accept no losses, except to achieve a plot or some game-vital goal. That was until I started this boarding lark, now however taking a loss of marine lives during fight training or taking a difficult prize for the first time, seems par for the course!
I was thinking of doing some marine training in the Dukes lair, in preparation for a future boarding of a Tyr but on reading this thread I may try some Agi. bashing, after all I do not possess one yet!

[deca.death]

I don't usually brag but then I'm not usually in possession of 3 Agamemnons with 5 FAAs, 4 1GJ Shiels, 11 ISRs and 24IBLs! :D

Well done, IBLs are especially useful. I took just one aggy for personal ship and flew it a while. I personally don't want to take more. Well they somehow seem too valuable to use as OOS patrols (For protection missions I use only purchasable ships) and I feel stupid selling them. But, it's nice to know they are there if needed I guess : )

[MarvinTheMartian]

Thanks.

I do now think that taking the 3rd might have been a tad excessive but it did provide the last 12 IBLs, no.2 will go into the RE queue when I finally get the HQ and I would like to use no.1 as a personal ship for a while. I do have plans for a large fleet and I can see Aggies making up the frigate population therein so no.3 won't be wasted.

On the topic of reloading, I would be happy to accept less but the difference is just too large, e.g. with sentry lasers it was the difference between losing 0 marines or 8 marines (all on one deck) and it was the difference between no equipment at all or having 24 of (one of) the hardest to get weapons in the universe plus extras for about 6 reloads in total.

Think I'll park the Hyperion at the hub for a while and see if I can get comfortable in an Agamemnon with a full load out, this could end badly

[deca.death]

I'm not fan of reloading either. Tonight i loss 2 (capped) centaurs, one nova and one solano. Not big deal, i have hundreds of ships, sh** happens. Only relodaing exception I make is with boarding /marine losses. Marines take an eternity to train. I almost have fighting power of 50 5/5 star marines, and I boarded all type of xenon vessels, still I never allowed too many casualties - 1-2 per ship, even if I had to do 20 - 30 reloads. If you want to do Xenon boarding without reloads I guess you'll need 200-300 marines.

For aggy - it's quote handy personal ship, one of toughest M7 ships in class "no hangar". I used 4 IBLs under chin turret, 4 PSGs and 4 CIGs in front. Sniping from distance, hell's fireball and precise hitting, you have all. Traded it for Shrike, not as powerful maybe but much more flexible.