What's the role of M7's?
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What's the role of M7's?
reading on what load out people use on M7’s I have realized that if u take out the Incendiary Bomb Launcher from the picture there is only the shirke and the thresher that can have capital size weapons on them. All the rest have to make do with corvette size. I would have thought that the M7 as a class should have been able to mount 2-4 capital size weapons each. What is their role, anti fighter and corvette?
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If you take IBL out of the picture then you're taking away the very weapon that makes M7s capital-killers.
You wouldn't complain that a car doesn't drive well after you take the wheels off.
M7s are great fast OOS patrols in non Q sectors. Fantastic personal ships from which you can conduct assassination & station defence missions. There's no ship in the game that can't be defeated by a decent M7 in the players hands.
You wouldn't complain that a car doesn't drive well after you take the wheels off.
M7s are great fast OOS patrols in non Q sectors. Fantastic personal ships from which you can conduct assassination & station defence missions. There's no ship in the game that can't be defeated by a decent M7 in the players hands.
The inclusion of IBL into CW ships IMO diluted the purpose of the frigates:
Tiger and Panther: Both are supposed to act as a flak platform for the Python, with IBL they're basically self-sufficient ships(panther moreso than the Tiger =p). Kinda silly to nerf the python, and then make its supposed "escorts" do a better overall job than the big guy.
Shrike: with IBL, you don't need a fighter wing to assist you, which kinda goes against most teladi tactics.
Carrack: I thought it was odd that it DIDN'T have frontal IBL compatability, what with it being a pirate vessel and all.
Deimos: I guess this can be an exception, with them always babbling on about cleansing fire or some such. Though I suppose it does mess with their "carrier hunter" design and turns em into highly specialised generalists. It also breaks their affinity for short ranged weaponry.
Tiger and Panther: Both are supposed to act as a flak platform for the Python, with IBL they're basically self-sufficient ships(panther moreso than the Tiger =p). Kinda silly to nerf the python, and then make its supposed "escorts" do a better overall job than the big guy.
Shrike: with IBL, you don't need a fighter wing to assist you, which kinda goes against most teladi tactics.
Carrack: I thought it was odd that it DIDN'T have frontal IBL compatability, what with it being a pirate vessel and all.
Deimos: I guess this can be an exception, with them always babbling on about cleansing fire or some such. Though I suppose it does mess with their "carrier hunter" design and turns em into highly specialised generalists. It also breaks their affinity for short ranged weaponry.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.
Frontal load of 8 PSG is probably the most devastating setup you can have on a personal frigate. It beats IBL setup in some aspects, so deimos is OK. Of course Agamemnon is a bit better, but it doesn't have a hangar.Deimos: I guess this can be an exception, with them always babbling on about cleansing fire or some such. Though I suppose it does mess with their "carrier hunter" design and turns em into highly specialised generalists. It also breaks their affinity for short ranged weaponry.
I suppose this is a partial failure on egosoft's part for not including a weapon between corvette weaponry and IBL. I suppose if you took a nerf bat to fighters and corvettes to the point that m6 would be a huge improvement of m3, then m7 would be pretty decent in their current state. As things stand now, m7 are more of a super m6 for sector patrols if you don't put IBL on them.
Duke's Buccaneers... I hate you so much... I am sooo demolishing your HQ when our business is finished....
Really wasn't talking about loadout, more of it just being there as an option. It breaks the paranid in 2 areas(range and role), but kinda makes sense in the fact that its a "fire" based weapon.kurush wrote:Frontal load of 8 PSG is probably the most devastating setup you can have on a personal frigate. It beats IBL setup in some aspects, so deimos is OK. Of course Agamemnon is a bit better, but it doesn't have a hangar.Deimos: I guess this can be an exception, with them always babbling on about cleansing fire or some such. Though I suppose it does mess with their "carrier hunter" design and turns em into highly specialised generalists. It also breaks their affinity for short ranged weaponry.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.
- EmperorJon
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IBL have a very peculiar supply structure in a vanilla game. Race ships either should be capturing those Akumas and Ryus in numbers or must have some shady deals with Yaki Building Yaki economy is fun though and they become probably the best place for sector traders after you do enough build station missions in their space.EmperorJon wrote:Considering the pirates has GCs and PPCs and the other races also have IBLs, that's really not true.
Fine. to clarify. U as the player can not equip your M7 unless you are good with the pirates. I just would have thought that there would be a buyable weapon like the IBL for other races that u as the player could access?EmperorJon wrote:Considering the pirates has GCs and PPCs and the other races also have IBLs, that's really not true.
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The technical reason for race ships prefering Pirate weaponry to their own in due to the weapons' location in the game file compared to others. Something like that, anyway.
Lore reason? Maybe the race militaries are hard-pressed for high-tech stuff like PPCs so use whatever they can scavenge from the pirates they take out?
The IBL is indeed meant as a pirate counterpart to the PPC/GC/IC/PSP, so those are the other races' counterparts to it naturally, but in practice it just seems everyone uses IBLs.
Anyway, as for the OP, without IBLs the M7 class would essentially become like the Cerberus, just less effective (or in the Deimos' case more) because that wouldn't be their intended specialisation - battleships specifically for destroying things smaller than themselves like fighters and corvettes as you say.
Lore reason? Maybe the race militaries are hard-pressed for high-tech stuff like PPCs so use whatever they can scavenge from the pirates they take out?
The IBL is indeed meant as a pirate counterpart to the PPC/GC/IC/PSP, so those are the other races' counterparts to it naturally, but in practice it just seems everyone uses IBLs.
Anyway, as for the OP, without IBLs the M7 class would essentially become like the Cerberus, just less effective (or in the Deimos' case more) because that wouldn't be their intended specialisation - battleships specifically for destroying things smaller than themselves like fighters and corvettes as you say.
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If at first you don't succeed, delegate the job to a minion.
You actually have a choice what type of pirates to befriend and there is also an option of going at war with both factions and use them to train your marines. Arguably, the last option would give you even more IBLs because they have a slow production rate.grimfear wrote: Fine. to clarify. U as the player can not equip your M7 unless you are good with the pirates. I just would have thought that there would be a buyable weapon like the IBL for other races that u as the player could access?
At the end of the day, it's one silly entry on the weapon description written by someone who probably had nothing to do with balancing the ship loadouts and rather poor factory allocations at race shipyards.Master of the Blade wrote: The IBL is indeed meant as a pirate counterpart to the PPC/GC/IC/PSP, so those are the other races' counterparts to it naturally, but in practice it just seems everyone uses IBLs.
They probably started it off as a pirate-only M2 weapon, and then realized that M7s were sucking too hard during balancing at some point and added it on without updating the above items.
You're kinda missing the point....kurush wrote:You actually have a choice what type of pirates to befriend and there is also an option of going at war with both factions and use them to train your marines. Arguably, the last option would give you even more IBLs because they have a slow production rate.grimfear wrote: Fine. to clarify. U as the player can not equip your M7 unless you are good with the pirates. I just would have thought that there would be a buyable weapon like the IBL for other races that u as the player could access?
The point he's trying to get across is that there's no IBL equivalent for the CW or Terrans.
They're either stuck with Corvette weapons or Destroyer weapons. (Flak, technically is a Destroyer weapon as it is a hand me down from Destroyers to Frigates, with the Split taking the idea to the extreme and omitting flak from their Destroyer) if you choose not to go with IBLs.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.
CW is happily firing IBLs left and right... The fact that player cannot purchase a factory producing IBL from any of CW races doesn't really mean CW doesn't have access to IBL because it obviously does. Terrans have their own weapons in all groups, so I am not sure how IBL is relevant here.You're kinda missing the point....
The point he's trying to get across is that there's no IBL equivalent for the CW or Terrans.
This isn't about why or how the CW have IBL.kurush wrote:CW is happily firing IBLs left and right... The fact that player cannot purchase a factory producing IBL from any of CW races doesn't really mean CW doesn't have access to IBL because it obviously does. Terrans have their own weapons in all groups, so I am not sure how IBL is relevant here.You're kinda missing the point....
The point he's trying to get across is that there's no IBL equivalent for the CW or Terrans.
Its about the fact that the CW or Terrans do not have a similar weapon that is like the IBL for their frigates.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.
My Shrike and my Carrack have plenty of IBLs, and the pirates do and always have hated me...grimfear wrote: Fine. to clarify. U as the player can not equip your M7 unless you are good with the pirates.
on topic - when it comes to tailoring weapons for specific ship classes, maybe the pirates are just a jump ahead of a mainly complacent CW in the frigate department???
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That's the thing with the IBL, when it comes to equipping M7s most need IBLs in order to be effective, the only way to get hold of IBLs in numbers is to either board M7s and hope they keep those when the ship is turned over to you (not guaranteed, once I boarded a Thresher and I got a total of 3 IBLs ), or board Brigantines. Brigantines will more than likely come with a full load of 24 IBLs, enough for 2 or 3 M7s
What REALLY doesn't make sense is that there's no Terran version of the IBL, since they have no dedicated M7 guns to speak of it completely nerfs the ATF Aegir for anti-capital firepower, reducing it to an anti-fighter platform.
What REALLY doesn't make sense is that there's no Terran version of the IBL, since they have no dedicated M7 guns to speak of it completely nerfs the ATF Aegir for anti-capital firepower, reducing it to an anti-fighter platform.