Phantom fact. in Venus destroyed by whom?

greypanther · Post by **greypanther** » Sat, 2. Jul 11, 21:37

Have the rules changed? I had two ships docked there, one to buy Phantoms, one to supply its needs; I go away from the PC for 30 mins, come back the Factory and both ships gone! Message in log says ships destroyed but not by whom!
Can the GOD engine now destroy facts even when a player has a ship docked there? If not whom goes into the Venus sector, destroys one fact, ( nothing else ) and leaves?

SIMON POPPLEWELL · Post by **SIMON POPPLEWELL** » Sat, 2. Jul 11, 22:19

That's wierd, usually stations don't disappear if there's a player ship docked. If it was destroyed by weapons fire there should be a station wreck in it's place.

greypanther · Post by **greypanther** » Sat, 2. Jul 11, 22:22

Nothing, not a trace.

TTD · Post by **TTD** » Sat, 2. Jul 11, 22:32

Recent threads have shown that docking ships just delays removal.
You need to convince the GoD that the station is very much in need and producing/selling (an buying where appropriate ) regularly.

greypanther · Post by **greypanther** » Sat, 2. Jul 11, 22:37

But I bought every missile it produced! I supplied all its needs!?

* Edit * I have just checked, no other destroyed yet. ( None since introduction of STs. ) Do I need more traders in that part of Terran Space?

TTD · Post by **TTD** » Sat, 2. Jul 11, 22:58

I have recently gone through most of the Sol System building sector support stations,ie SPP, Crystal Facts,
Food fact etc.

Eventually the GoD started to put new stations in.

greypanther · Post by **greypanther** » Sat, 2. Jul 11, 23:20

I am not at the stage of building terran food facts, but can do the rest.

SIMON POPPLEWELL · Post by **SIMON POPPLEWELL** » Sat, 2. Jul 11, 23:42

How long have you been supplying the station? I've had a ship docked at a Ghoul Miisile fab for 6 game days and it's still there, not been supplied either.

infy dev · Post by **infy dev** » Sun, 3. Jul 11, 00:07

it's possible they undocked to either engage pirates/terraformers that were attacking the station, or because there were too many idle ships docked there - then they died but the station survived (& was later removed by GoD)

that would explain how they were dead, but no station wreckage...

it's terribly inefficient, but I tend to put a bunch of my more useless ships on ST duties in the Sol sectors (gradually bumping them up to manage 2-3 sectors), which seems to keep the economy kicking over enough that most stations remain without me investing much effort into it (also those sectors are usually extra safe, thanks to the trigger-happy security)

Carlo the Curious · Post by **Carlo the Curious** » Sun, 3. Jul 11, 00:19

TTD wrote:Recent threads have shown that docking ships just delays removal.

Do you have a link? Just out of interest.

Eisenkalle · Post by **Eisenkalle** » Sun, 3. Jul 11, 00:21

Recently in my game a Water-purification in Saturn 2 was destroyed by two pirate fighters (both red ones, btw. 90% of pirates ignore me or blue!).

I do not know why exactly they were in Saturn 2, because the pirate station is the other way around (4th US after Oort Cloud). Maybe they were after a terran transport or my own MK3 (never received any message about any attack and no lost ST/LT MK3!). Pure coincidence let me read recent messages in my log and I discovered the entry. The entry read like my Rapier in Saturn 2 was destroyed. I thought WTF and checked the location. Nothing unusual at that time. Made a save and then reloaded a recent save from not long ago. The old save was 25 min. before the incident. I flew over to Saturn 2 killed both pirate fighters...

BTW: Thanks again AI, for giving me regular info about attacked ships. If I get this info, the ship is most certainly a lethal state. So even when I arrive at the scene, the ship will die anyway... why did they never fix this grrrrr

greypanther · Post by **greypanther** » Sun, 3. Jul 11, 01:37

Well the one of the two ships was a Claymore, the other a Mistral SF. As for how long they have been there not sure, but time to produce over a hundred Phantoms. I went back to an old save, to save the bloody things.

I have 7 Mistral STs with a range of 3, ( Various places ) + The Mistral SF supplying the Phantom and Wraith Facts, in Terran space, and 5 Mistral STs in Aldrin.

The Phantom was the first fact that has gone missing since I started the STs.

I will increse STs and maybe place a few defenders near to sensitive facts.

TTD · Post by **TTD** » Sun, 3. Jul 11, 01:48

Carlo the Curious wrote:
TTD wrote:Recent threads have shown that docking ships just delays removal.
Do you have a link? Just out of interest.

I'll try to find it Sunday.
Someone posted within a thread that they had a ship in each station , but after 20 days the GoD still removed some stations, complete with his ships.

Post was some-when within the last four weeks,(iirc.,time goes by so quick these days!),but I have read so many since then , that I cannot recall which thread it was in.

EDIT

Thanks to glenmcd , ( below) , that was the research I was referring to.Just can't remember which threat you posted in

Eisenkalle · Post by **Eisenkalle** » Sun, 3. Jul 11, 02:51

My current game is at day 14. I docked the Rapiers all over outer Sol sectors (all non respawning stations/mines types)... no problems so far. Around day 2-3 I started first ST/LT operations there and recently I checked the maps and found 3 new terran food stations. At day 13/14 I rushed into inner sectors of Sol system and forcefully made it through to at least Mars, Venus and Mercury. There I also docked some Rapiers at the standard stations... they are still there.

Oh atm there is another pirate Nova attacking an terran SPP XL in Saturn I am on my way there now, investigate this matter further.

glenmcd · Post by **glenmcd** » Sun, 3. Jul 11, 05:06

Some weeks back I put a few hundred hours into studying the deletion of Terran / Aldrin stations as a learning exercise. My initial goal was to prevent ANY stations from being deleted. I learned the following:
1. The selection of stations is partly logic and partly random. The logic part is that the station isn't in regular use. Whether that relates to actual products / resources moving or whether it's simply how long ago there was a docking or undocking of a ship I don't know. This may be critical to long term protection of stations (see below).
2. I was saving very regularly (ten minutes apart) and on each occasion checking for any deleted stations. For this I loaded the save into a modified TC and used "reveal all sectors" with all adv satellites to see how things were going. The deletions tend to happen at intervals, and not once did I notice two stations in the same race space deleted at same time. I did see two stations deleted at once, but one in Aldrin and one in Terran space (see below). If you didn't reload after a deletion, it seemed safe to assume that there would not be another deletion for around an hour of game time. We take out the trash once a week, GoD does it once an hour. Not exactly an hour unfortunately but around that. If you reload from just before a deletion and play again, the same station may be deleted again. Using this method I got to see a station be deleted actually while I was looking straight at it in sector view, when OOS using Adv Satellite. No enemies in sight (Aldrin). Sometimes, I had to reload up to around ten times before GoD didn't delete that station. It seemed that once GoD made up his mind, there was only one station that he was interested in for deletion and if it wasn't going to be that one, he'd leave them all. At least in Terran / Aldrin space. My take on that is that GoD sorts stations by certain criteria, and so there's only one at the top of the list. Had I intervened and bought products, supplied resources or simply undocked my ship(s) and redocked to that particular station in the few minutes before I knew GoD was going to target it, perhaps he might have left it? Don't know the answer to that one.
3. Even if you have commanded a ship to dock at some station, GoD may still delete that station before the ship gets there. I observed this many times.
4. It makes no difference when you start missions. Players used to say that Aldrin stations didn't get deleted until you had access to Aldrin. I observed many dozens of times, Aldrin stations being deleted by GoD well before I had access.
5. GoD deletes his first station sometimes in less than one hour playing time. He always deleted one by around 3 hours. From most starts, there's almost no way of docking a ship in all Terran / Aldrin stations within the first game hour. But by selective reloading with knowledge, you can.
6. Initially, SPPs and mines get deleted first. Weapon type factories tend to get deleted later. But within 24 game hours that'e plenty.
7. When I finally got all Terran and Aldrin stations covered by having an M5 docked at every one of them, it was with great relief. The effort involved in saving every one is extremely high. Switching between vanilla and modified every ten game minutes, and having to repeat a percentage of them up to ten times takes its toll. Around twenty game hours, I had two of my ships destroyed at same time. One was docked at a Terran station, the other at an Aldrin station. The timing this time I knew was the same, due to the log entries showing the precise time of destruction of each ship. The chances of enemy destroying a station in Terran and a station in Aldrin space at the same exact second is obviously exceedingly low. The ships were destroy by what? The ships names included the name of the stations they were protecting, and both stations at around that time disappeared. Some may conclude that GoD allows something like 20 hours grace for docked ships to move on, and then deletes stations anyways.

Station deletion is happening in the Commonwealth also. It isn't noticed so much because all of those stations are available for sale anyways, there is generally multiple redundancy (another SPP two sectors away or even others in same sector), so it's no big deal to players. Terran and Aldrin is different in many ways and so there's been a focus on them.

My current theory holds that it's not having a ship docked at a station that prevents it from being deleted, it's the fact that a ship docked (the difference being whether the docking continued indefinately). Thus, perhaps it's possible to save all stations everywhere forever by setting up CLS2 on M5s to visit each station in turn. No need to trade, just visit. If you do sector trading in Terran / Aldrin space, you will likely do this anyways, but not for the stations that never move product and already have enough resources. This fits in with the observation from others, that getting trade going will tend to protect the stations long term. As an ex-dev, I know that developers always look for the simplest way of eachieving a logical requirement. It's far simpler to keep records of dockings and/or undockings at each station, than to keep records of products and/or resources. Each station has different products and resources, and some have only secondary resources (SPPs). This is just a theory and perhaps others might like to try the CLS2 visit-every-station-regularly station protect test. If you can visit each station at least once every 40 minutes that should achieve it, if the theory holds. I wouldn't say it's solid evidence unless full protection holds for at least a week of game time, and for Terran space that it commenced no later than 5 game hours into the start.

greypanther · Post by **greypanther** » Sun, 3. Jul 11, 21:59

Thank you again glenmcd, yet again I am impressed with your thoroughness.

However I am not sure it applies with what I saw. I was trading with the station, buying all the misiles I could, as well as supplying all the stations needs. I wish I had the time to test further, but do not. I reloaded to an earlier time and so far the Phantom fact is still there, though perhaps not enough time has elapsed. I will follow your advice and set up a tourist ship!

Hubert99 · Post by **Hubert99** » Mon, 4. Jul 11, 23:10

They were those darn pirates from the left unknown sector you go from Pluto.

I did dock a Rapier at every station, I think it was third gameday. Now I am at gameday 30. In this time, two stations disappeared, an XL SPP from Venus, and A Vater Purification Plant from Uranus 2. (if I recall it them right) I said, ok, terrans can live without these,

As soon as put advanced satellites to all terran sectors, I found a pirate base in above mentioned sector, and i saw many red pirates wondering around. Now I have a Tiger parked at the only exit of that unknown sector. Noone gets through.

I am pretty sure GoD does not remove stations where player ships are docked. It is thos pirates who slowly chop them away. If you ask, how did they manage to sneak up to Venus ? Maube that was the work of another group, as they do wander up from CW space, through Asteroid Belt in my game. Strangely, terran sector defences seem to do a very bad job at keeping them at bay.

Eisenkalle · Post by **Eisenkalle** » Tue, 5. Jul 11, 01:37

Hubert99 wrote: I am pretty sure GoD does not remove stations where player ships are docked. It is thos pirates who slowly chop them away. If you ask, how did they manage to sneak up to Venus ? Maube that was the work of another group, as they do wander up from CW space, through Asteroid Belt in my game. Strangely, terran sector defences seem to do a very bad job at keeping them at bay.

I support the argument, that the AI certainly does not remove stations, where player-owned ships are docked.

Think about it, you have your UNIQUE M6 (for example the Vidar), docked at some random terran station. This idea will never work out. Why should the AI forcefully remove a station with your ship docked?

I wrote on page 1, that I lost a docked Rapier (log entry! No audio-information, as usual!). I was lucky, that I could reload and was able to rescue the station, where my Rapier was docked. Just yesterday I witnessed the same situation. I was deploying satellites further in the outer Sol system. When I reached the 2nd US after Oort Cloud, there were red pirates already harassing another terran station. patrols were passing by, but without any reaction to the attacks. They just ignored the pirates. No reaction at all! Stupid terrans.

greypanther · Post by **greypanther** » Tue, 5. Jul 11, 10:52

I actually agree with you guys now. I went back to the point after the Phantom fact was destoyed and had a mooch around. If GOD had destroyed the station, why had it also recreated 2 of the stations that were destroyed before my traders got in there? That makes no sense. Anyway I went back to a previous save and saved the Phantom fact.

I too have noticed quite a lot of pirate trafic entering Terran space from the CW, via the asteroid belt. The Terrans are not very good at destroying pirates, I too have seen several Terran patrols ignoring the pirates passing close by. I put this down to Terran corruption! After all humans have a long history of f*****g each other over for a quick credit! ( It fits my role playing too! )

I think I will try to track down the nearest pirate base and destroy it.

eldyranx3 · Post by **eldyranx3** » Tue, 5. Jul 11, 15:52

The wandering pirates are probably in cahoots with Dark Space, at least from a Lore standpoint. I personally have not seen GoD removing a Terran Station with a player ship since before 2.0, and I've spent close to a hundred of real time hours experimenting with the vanilla Terran Economy.

This might have been changed with a more recent patch, but I haven't noticed it. And unless an Egosoft Dev (not Mod) comes out and explains GoD, its all stellar conjecture really. The only 100% way to prevent Terran Stations from the ravages of GoD is to turn them all invincible.

So far with Operation Loki installed (and with a few extra Bio fabs), the Terran Economy is cranking out Weapons and Missiles with reasonable efficiency.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Phantom fact. in Venus destroyed by whom?

Phantom fact. in Venus destroyed by whom?