Wings
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Wings
I am sure that there are lots of threads regarding such, but shouldn't 5 heavily armed Falcon Hauler fighters be able to sort 8 Ns, 4 Ms, 2 Ls? This is the first time I have used a wing properly, and they seemed to spend most of the time missing! I needed to help them out in my Shrike. Am I expecing too much? I lost three, 2 damaged.
Is there any point to using such small wings?
Should I stick to going it alone?
Should I use CODEA?
Thanks
*edit* Sorry guys to have wasted your time, the few that noticed my question.
I will trawl through back threads if I can find the time, otherwise go back to old style of play.
Is there any point to using such small wings?
Should I stick to going it alone?
Should I use CODEA?
Thanks
*edit* Sorry guys to have wasted your time, the few that noticed my question.
I will trawl through back threads if I can find the time, otherwise go back to old style of play.
It really depends on the weapon loadout on your fighters. Those Falcon Haulers will be deadly if you give them Energy Bolt Chainguns and plenty of ammo, assuming you're in the same sector (ammo weapons have 'issues' when used OOS). Put a Phased Repeater Gun or PAC in the turret, and they should do fine. If you were using HEPT's, then that would explain your problem. HEPT's are slow and when fighting maneuverable ships like the Xenon fighters, you need faster firing weapons. EBC's are a much better choice, especially given the Hauler's rather anemic laser generator.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.
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Odd. They should've made short work of those Xenon. When you say 'wings', do you mean they were all in a wing, or were they your wingmen? I find they generally perform a whole lot better when I simply have them as individuals and give them the order to 'protect me' or 'attack enemies'. Wings generally work better with OOS combat, from my experience.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.
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X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.
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Codea can take a while to get setup properly, with all its support ships etc, but for a basic carrier setup with fighters on board, its a pretty nice piece of software, I'm still working on getting tenders and bombers to be setup correctly, but i am so far having fun watching various carriers detecting enemy ships in system and launching a counter offensive against them.
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For carrier mods I am a giant fan of ADS. It does a fantastic job both for an automated carrier and for launching/docking fighters from a player ship.
CODEA is pretty cool, but I don't really want about 85% of it's features.
CODEA is pretty cool, but I don't really want about 85% of it's features.
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Re: Wings
No, I'm afraid not. You sent a bunch of big, slow fighters with a bunch of big, slow tracking weapons against a bunch of small light fast fighters that are generally equipped with fast weapons that are very good at hitting fighter-sized targets (PAC, PBE).greypanther wrote:I am sure that there are lots of threads regarding such, but shouldn't 5 heavily armed Falcon Hauler fighters be able to sort 8 Ns, 4 Ms, 2 Ls?
If 2-3 of them had been packing PACs or PRGs they would have been able to clear out the light stuff very quickly, then the EBC-loaded ships would've hammered the larger targets.
EBC track about as quickly as HEPT. Awesome for M3-sized targets and larger, not so great for swatting M4-M5.
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wings
greypanther, you said it yourself. 'your first time with wings' .
Wings are one of the harder things in TC to get it right.
If you have the time, the best way to use a Wing is to pick one target, wipe it out, pick another target, wipe it out ... and so on.
Use the Combat menu, and select attack .. (your target).
If you need help now, right damn now...., then pick Attack All Enemies. Then each fighter picks its own target. So you really tie up the enemy. And take more losses.
A Wing attack takes a good amount of time to happen, but it can be powerful.
I hope this helps.
Wings are one of the harder things in TC to get it right.
If you have the time, the best way to use a Wing is to pick one target, wipe it out, pick another target, wipe it out ... and so on.
Use the Combat menu, and select attack .. (your target).
If you need help now, right damn now...., then pick Attack All Enemies. Then each fighter picks its own target. So you really tie up the enemy. And take more losses.
A Wing attack takes a good amount of time to happen, but it can be powerful.
I hope this helps.
Bill in S.F., enjoying the game
CODEA is probably the best carrier command software there is. It saves you a lot of hassle in setting up wings. CODEA automatically sets 3 fighters per wing when launched. Plus it's nice to know you have can have additional ships if needed. I usually set my support ships to inactive unless I'm facing anything other than bombers or fighters.
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Well thanks guys lots of interesting advice there. I havn't bothered with using wings before, becuase I find my Shrike well capable to sort most things on its own; I just thought that it may have been useful from an immersive point of view.
I had the 5 assigned as a wing to make launching and ordering easier. I launched them with the orders ' attack all enemies '.
Forgive me but the EBC is a fast weapon. It has a range of 2.81; 1.4 hull dam; 8.9 shield dam; fires 394/min; bullet speed of 604 m/s and only uses 6/s energy. They along with the PRG in the turret, with a range of 2.32; hull dam of .765; shield dam of 7.2; 638/min fire rate; speed of 1560/sec; and an energy consumption of 138/sec; this combonation seemed to be the best for the Falcon Hauler as they only have 3700 laser energy and a slow recharge rate. It should have meant that the PRG should be firing all the time, they didn't appear to be firing at all! (PRG)
The falcon hauler has a turn rate of 30.4; a speed of 132; accn. of 16m/s and a 200 mj shield. This I thought made for a good setup. I was wrong it seems.
The N does have a turn rate of 80.5rpm however!
I noted the Ns seem to better commanded as they seemed to just split a hauler off one at a time!
The PAC does not seem so good on paper, not least because of the poor laser gen on the Falcon Hauler. it has a range of only 1.92; hull dam of .748; shield dam of 6; fire rate of 314, bullet speed of 703 and uses 120/s energy.
I have been trying to use Teladi ships mostly in this game start as I try to roleplay as much as I can. However perhaps a few nova raiders with a turn rate of 62.9 would be a lot better, even with the lesser shielding.
Perhaps 2 wings of 3, with 1 wing made up of more manouverable ships would be good? I will experiment.
( Teladi fighters really suck dont they? )
I had the 5 assigned as a wing to make launching and ordering easier. I launched them with the orders ' attack all enemies '.
Forgive me but the EBC is a fast weapon. It has a range of 2.81; 1.4 hull dam; 8.9 shield dam; fires 394/min; bullet speed of 604 m/s and only uses 6/s energy. They along with the PRG in the turret, with a range of 2.32; hull dam of .765; shield dam of 7.2; 638/min fire rate; speed of 1560/sec; and an energy consumption of 138/sec; this combonation seemed to be the best for the Falcon Hauler as they only have 3700 laser energy and a slow recharge rate. It should have meant that the PRG should be firing all the time, they didn't appear to be firing at all! (PRG)
The falcon hauler has a turn rate of 30.4; a speed of 132; accn. of 16m/s and a 200 mj shield. This I thought made for a good setup. I was wrong it seems.
The N does have a turn rate of 80.5rpm however!
I noted the Ns seem to better commanded as they seemed to just split a hauler off one at a time!
The PAC does not seem so good on paper, not least because of the poor laser gen on the Falcon Hauler. it has a range of only 1.92; hull dam of .748; shield dam of 6; fire rate of 314, bullet speed of 703 and uses 120/s energy.
I have been trying to use Teladi ships mostly in this game start as I try to roleplay as much as I can. However perhaps a few nova raiders with a turn rate of 62.9 would be a lot better, even with the lesser shielding.
Perhaps 2 wings of 3, with 1 wing made up of more manouverable ships would be good? I will experiment.
( Teladi fighters really suck dont they? )
It's lots of fun! In my opinion, it's even more fun than big-ship play.greypanther wrote:Well thanks guys lots of interesting advice there. I havn't bothered with using wings before, becuase I find my Shrike well capable to sort most things on its own; I just thought that it may have been useful from an immersive point of view.
But it does require it's own learning process to handle AI-controlled ships effectively. They don't behave in the same way that you would while piloting those ships, so if it's completely new to you then you should expect the same trial and error process that you started the game with.
You can't just theory-craft your way through what "should" work if you don't have any experience with it. Try out different loads and see how they work out. One thing I found to be very helpful in learning about about AI behavior was to hop into a wing fighter myself and just watch from the cockpit to see how different weapons behave.
+range is important for taking down big, slow targets, but it's not always your friend for anti-fighter AI. At 2.8 km, your PAC/PBE-equipped xenon fighters haven't even started their attack approaches yet (which is when your ships are most likely to hit them) and will still be flying erratically as they position themselves for their next attack run.Forgive me but the EBC is a fast weapon. It has a range of 2.81; 1.4 hull dam; 8.9 shield dam; fires 394/min; bullet speed of 604 m/s and only uses 6/s energy.
Your priority is your fighter's ability to land weapon-fire on the target. This is different form simply looking at raw weapon efficiency or DPS, which are priorities for hitting larger targets.
It may not seem like much on paper, but when you combine the added speed with the fact that PACs will take aim and start shooting as the enemy is starting it's straight, predictable attack path, then the difference in performance is substantial.
What are the turret orders?They along with the PRG in the turret, with a range of 2.32; hull dam of .765; shield dam of 7.2; 638/min fire rate; speed of 1560/sec; and an energy consumption of 138/sec; this combonation seemed to be the best for the Falcon Hauler as they only have 3700 laser energy and a slow recharge rate. It should have meant that the PRG should be firing all the time, they didn't appear to be firing at all! (PRG)
No, you're not wrong. It's a good strong ship, and is very cheap compared to other M3s with similar shields, making it a great learning tool as you start to play around with wings. The only "problem" is that your rigged them for knocking out corvettes (or frigates, if you had 2-3 times as many), then expected them to deal with being outnumbered 3 to 1 by xenon ships who presumably were loaded for anti-fighter combat (xenon usually are).The falcon hauler has a turn rate of 30.4; a speed of 132; accn. of 16m/s and a 200 mj shield. This I thought made for a good setup. I was wrong it seems.
Again, play around and experiment instead of theory-crafting too much. The +15-20% faster projectile speed of the PAC over the EBC is significant for hitting fast targets (and the +150% speed of the PRG is too, obviously). For knocking out N's and M's, you don't need super efficiency or DPS, you just need to hit them a few times. They don't have much in terms of shield or hull to worry about compared to the falcon.The PAC does not seem so good on paper, not least because of the poor laser gen on the Falcon Hauler. it has a range of only 1.92; hull dam of .748; shield dam of 6; fire rate of 314, bullet speed of 703 and uses 120/s energy.
This is an awesome way to play, imho. If you want to stick with the Teladi theme, then don't overlook your harriers or buzzards! Stock L-equipped harriers straight from the shipyard come equipped with 4 Mass Drivers, making them an excellent cheap'n'easy way of dealing with light fighters. Do expect to have to replace them here an there, though.I have been trying to use Teladi ships mostly in this game start as I try to roleplay as much as I can. However perhaps a few nova raiders with a turn rate of 62.9 would be a lot better, even with the lesser shielding.
The important thing is to be equipped for the fight at hand. If you expect your wings to deal with fighters, then rig them to deal with fighters. If you expect them to deal with corvettes, then rig them to deal with corvettes. Also, try to outnumber and gang up on your opponents wherever possible.
As you play around, try to have a specific idea about what you kinds of fights you hope your wing will perform well in. That's because the answer to "What's better?" is usually "Well, it depends..." rather than just one power-setup for everything -- which is really the greatest thing about the X series compared to other space combat games.Perhaps 2 wings of 3, with 1 wing made up of more manouverable ships would be good? I will experiment.
I had the very same issues as you when I first started using my Panther, but I am starting to get things a bit smoother now.
One of the things that really helped me was creating multiple wings with very specific roles. ie a wing for protecting you carrier, a wing for dealing with fighter swarms, a wing for dealing with M6, a wing for helping with M7 etc etc
it is important to address speed when making these wings, as has been mentioned, your particularly sluggish M3s are going to struggle with fast, agile M4/5. So making a wing with a mix of a couple of the faster M3, and some M4/5 will better deal with other groups of fighters. Save the bigger M3/M3+ for dealing with M6, you will be shocked at how fast a wing of 4-5 M3 equipped with EBC will annihilate most M6.
Also, YOU WILL TAKE LOSSES, be prepared to be constantly having to replace lost ships if this is how you are going to play your game...
One of the things that really helped me was creating multiple wings with very specific roles. ie a wing for protecting you carrier, a wing for dealing with fighter swarms, a wing for dealing with M6, a wing for helping with M7 etc etc
it is important to address speed when making these wings, as has been mentioned, your particularly sluggish M3s are going to struggle with fast, agile M4/5. So making a wing with a mix of a couple of the faster M3, and some M4/5 will better deal with other groups of fighters. Save the bigger M3/M3+ for dealing with M6, you will be shocked at how fast a wing of 4-5 M3 equipped with EBC will annihilate most M6.
Also, YOU WILL TAKE LOSSES, be prepared to be constantly having to replace lost ships if this is how you are going to play your game...
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