X2: trouble with Khaak...Vets advice please

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siddham
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X2: trouble with Khaak...Vets advice please

Post by siddham » Wed, 10. Aug 11, 23:43

I am finding the Khaak difficult and to be honest a pain in the butt. I have a Nova with Beta HEPTs and Ion Disruptors mounted forward and a Mass Driver aft. Usually I can defeat a cluster by taking out the M3 first using 1 BHEPT and 1 ID mounted forward. The disruptor is mostly for anti-missile use. Once the M3 is down it is the missiles from the M5s that I find most dangerous.

I can kill the M3 handy enough; but the M5s are impossible to actually aim at and hit. They move faster than the ordnance from the BHEPT so I can’t actually aim at them…I just fire in their general direction and hope for the best. Usually they die by ramming me.

But right now there is a cluster consisting of 1 M3 and 17 M5s in the Hole which I cannot defeat in my Nova. Any advice? Should I just save-up and get an M6?

To be honest the Khaak are spoiling the game for me. I really don’t have any time now to build fabs or explore any more because every ten or so minutes they turn up somewhere I already have fabs or ships so I have to go and fight them. That’s all I get to do now…which is not much fun for me.

Any advice from X2 vets?

Ps I have read a bit in old threads…but there I find people talking about taking out clusters in M5s and M4s…are they playing the same game as me?

Nanook
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Post by Nanook » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 00:09

Until you finish the plot, the Kha'ak are very dangerous and will turn up anywhere. And if you have lots of unprotected assets, you're going to lose some.

The lesson to be learned is don't overbuild and always try to supply sufficient defenses for what you do build. It's best to build in core race sectors because they have better defenses.

And yes, you really will need M6's, and plenty of them, to patrol the areas where you have assets. But once the plot is finished, most players discover that the universe becomes too quiet, even boring. So enjoy the action while you can. :D

As for taking out clusters in M4's and M5's, that's probably one of the X3 games they're referring to. Although with enough missiles, it can be done in X2 also.
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Post by Rockettman » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 00:40

If you are looking to protect your ships/ factories in that sector, you could try luring the cluster near a station and getting the cluster to fire upon the station. The station's defence force should come out and proceed to take down the cluster for you 8).

If you are looking for fight rank / race rep / capturing ships, you best bet is to get an M6 :D.

Longer term, you should invest in some sector defence ships, I would recommend the centaur for this. Try to cluster your factories in only a few sectors (makes defending them a lot easier).

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Post by jlehtone » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 00:56

Paranid M3 Perseus can mount PSG's and is faster than Nova. That may, or may not make a difference.

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Post by siddham » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 03:42

Thanks for the helpful replies guys.

@ Nanook
Yes I have been holding off on the plot to get some fabs up and some cash and a decent ship and a bit of exploring. Have not gone to the Temple yet.
I realise I have overbuilt in the sense of in too many and in some very dangerous sectors. But now that I get that, I can fix it...with a little time and work...I mean play :)

@ jlehtone
I have no rep with the Paranid. Every time I set out to go there and build rep I have to jump back to defend one of my sectors. At this rate I will have the cash for a Centaur before the Paranid will even talk to me.

The situation in the hole worked out OK...and curiously along the lines Rockettman suggested.
I hung back and the cluster started attacking an NPC station. The station only owned a couple of M4s and M5s and it was looking like the Khaak would destroy it. Its hull was down to 20% as I moved in slowly on the opposite side of the station to the Khaak M3. I statred taking out M5s which were holding more or less steady position to fire on the station...and most of the cluster ignored me. After taking out several M5s I checked the station's hull; it was back up to 80%. Since the station was now safe I decided to dock nearby and save...just in case (note to self...buy insurance!).
When I came back out to finish the job the cavalry had arrived...an Argon sector patrol! They were not there before. I checked the sector map earlier...definitely no centaurs. They must have come in from another sector. Afterwards they flew-off into Herrons Nebula.
For me it was one of those...wow what a game!...moments.

Do the sector patrols respond to situtions in other sectors?
Or do they wander from sector to sector?

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Post by VELLA » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 04:35

Khaak clusters are in some ways easier to deal with in X2 than in X3. In X2 if you catch the cluster before it splits up you can usually get right up close behind it and destroy the M3 straight away with BHEPTs before they can do anything. The scouts will often have varying max speeds, so in a fast M3 like a Mamba you can string them out a bit to avoid getting swarmed. Usually in a Nova once the M3 is dead you can cut your engines and just sit there and shoot the scouts as they run at you. With 75MJ of shielding and a bit of twitch shooting you can whittle them down before they can do you any harm. Of course a Centaur or an Osprey can easily deal with a large Khaak cluster OOS by itself, so once you can afford one of those you will no longer need to worry about having to jump back in to defend your factories every 5 minutes. You can still expect the Khaak to destoy your freighters quite often though.

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Post by Legionnaire » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 07:53

From what i can remember of how i did X2 Mass Drivers, and a couple of ammunition factories for personal use. however i would advise making a dedicated save before trying this , as it may not be to everyones taste.

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Post by DrATty » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 11:50

I felt the same about the Khaak. I eventually developed techniques to deal with them (already suggested above) though they were always a challenge. When I finished the plot they stopped being a problem and I actually missed them.
Last edited by DrATty on Thu, 11. Aug 11, 16:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by McKenna-x2source » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 12:46

I'd agree with Legionnaire, get some Mass Drivers equipped on your NOVA main guns, the rounds are so fast even the Khaak M5's will have trouble dodging them.
I hate the hub plot!

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Post by Kryten » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 13:02

Sounds like you have the same problem I allways had, I was pants at fighting :lol:

My solution, missiles. In x2 I would rarely fight anything smaller than an m3 unless it was heading straight for me, Back when X2 came out my computer wasn't the best so most of my fighting was OOS. after some testing I found the centaur to be the most effective at dealing with clusters.

I also found the clusters to be very annoying but my solution was simple, cram as many factories into one sector and have one or two centaurs guard it. As I recall finishing the plot only required you to have 1 ship so if thats your plan go with what you got and ignore the clusters.
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Post by Virtualaughing » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 18:19

TIP

Paranid M6 with PSG
Caution advised! Approaching enemies where both hostiles and enemies are close together with PSG or Ion Distruptor can lead to unfortunate consequences !
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Post by Afterburnerz » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 18:56

As jlehtone said -
Paranid M3 Perseus can mount PSG's and is faster than Nova. That may, or may not make a difference.
However , since you don't have access to the Paranid shipyards yet , the pirate Orinoco would be your best bet.

The best option IMO is to mount an alpha PSG and a beta PSG in the gun slots and you're going to waltz through those clusters.

You can buy the alpha PSG at the Equipment Dock in Ceo's Buckzoid.

You may have to use 2 x alpha PSG's as you'll have to capture the beta PSG from a pirate vessel - and that's a risky option.

The Nova with an Ion Disruptor and a Mass Driver in the front mounts works well , however make sure you load a gamma PAC in the rear mount.
An Ion Disruptor + a beta PAC in the front also works well with the gamma PAC in the rear.

The Nova is too slow to run away from the scouts, so the best thing is to use Wasp missiles, like they're going out of fashion, on the Scouts and Silkworms on the Fighter before you get too close.

If possible, try to destroy the cluster from a distance before the ships separate.
Spoiler
Show
It is possible to delay the Kha'ak invasion indefinitely , by staying well away from Brennan's Triumph.
When the player enters any sector ( except for President's End ) within 3 jumps of Brennan's Triumph it triggers the Kha'ak Invasion.


YOU can not enter the following sectors:
Farnham's Legend , Bala Gi's Joy , Elena's Fortune ,
Olmancketslat's Treaty , Split Fire , Brennan's Triumph ,
Priest Rings , Priest's Pity , Danna's Chance , Nopileos' Memorial ,
Hatikvah's Faith or Emperor's Ridge.

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Post by siddham » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 21:55

Thanks guys :)

It’s good to know I am not the only player to find the khaak a bit of a pain. But I guess they are part of the challenge of the game; and sorting out the problem I had in The Hole was a bit of fun. But my fledgling empire is a bit spread-out to be manageable at this point. I'm never going to be able to do anything but jump around fighting Khaak clusters. No exploring or working on rep with the other races etc. Even putting in more stations will be akward.

Anyway I’m going to try a MD up front with an ID and a PAC at the rear as Afterburnerz suggested. Also load-up with wasps. At least for now.

When I mentioned getting an M6 I was thinking of it as my personal ship…not as a OOS defence…although I should do that too when I can afford it.
Would you recommend the M6 as a player ship to finish the story? I read that the Dragon is considered the best by many players. Am I right to think the M6 cannot dock; and I will need a tender to stock up on ammunition and E-Cells etc? How about upgrades and weapons etc?

At the moment I don’t like the Nova so much. I think it’s poorly designed…I don’t like the pylons blocking the side windows…and it’s too slow. The Orinoco isn’t tough enough or fast enough to be a real alternative to the Nova as a player ship.

I’m playing X2 mainly to experience the evolution of the X-Universe and the story line before moving on to Reunion; so maybe I will do what Kryten suggested and get myself an M6 and go finish-up the story and move on to X3. If once the X2 plot is finished there isn’t much left to do, other than the sandbox gameplay, I might do that. Would I be missing anything?

At what point would you guys suggest moving on to X3?

I read that Reunion is also quite tough; both in terms of making cash and combat…I mean in comparison to TC, which I read is relatively easy, according to some players.

Any thoughts?

@ Afterburnerz
I am not sure you are right about those sectors being the trigger for the Khaak invasion. I don’t think I visited any of them before it started. I think another trigger is building more than 2 stations. I remember reading a long thread about this and players mentioned various possible triggers. Entering a sector within 3 jumps of Brennan’s Triumph was mentioned as one possible trigger. But the general consensus seemed to be there were multiple possible triggers...?

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Post by imperium3 » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 23:00

Putting in a small disclaimer here that I haven't actually played X2, however and ID/MD combination sounds pretty redundant to me because unless things changed significantly in later games, the ID is a shield-breaker only, right? And the MD ignores shields?

So removing the shields that don't affect your damage seems a bit unnecessary...

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Post by siddham » Thu, 11. Aug 11, 23:57

@ imperium3
Good point...the Ion Disruptor's function in this set-up is as an anti-missile weapon. I find that missiles are the biggest threat from the Khaak M5s. When I get the warning of an in-coming missile I swivel round with my ID blazing and the missiles detonate.

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Post by Kryten » Fri, 12. Aug 11, 00:54

For an M6 I'd go with the dragon, all M6s in X2 are extremely hard to handle, they're very slow at turning but their sheilding makes them a bit more redeeming. I'd be amazed if anyone could finish the plot in an m6, without spoiling it I'l just say that an M3 is what you'd be aiming to fly.

As to when to move on, well I must say that I didn't pay much attention to the plot of X2, finished it only twice, the rest of the time I concentrated on empire building.

Reunion or TC, both are very similar but very hard to adjust to comming from X2, the controls are so different and the flight school in TC will leave you dumbfounded if you choose a start that doesn't have your ship equiped with weapons. Reunion can be very frustrating as they never fixed some issues like towing stations and ultimately you end up waiting for invasion missions to give you something to do.

TC is a lot more friendly, althought the Kha'ak can give you a major headache if you don't know how to deal with them, (leave them alone) the amount of plots is astounding especially when you consider the length of time some of them take to complete, a single game can take months to complete if you like your plots. I'd try Reunion first as TC has made so many improvements that make it hard to go backwards..
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Post by fig » Fri, 12. Aug 11, 01:44

@Nanook "even boring"

Not in my game. I'm still playing. The biggest problem I have these days is finding the spare time. So much still to do and so little free time :cry:

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Post by siddham » Fri, 12. Aug 11, 02:17

@ Kryten

I will definitely play Reunion before TC; I want to see the story line through.
I got X3 Gold for €10 on Gamersgate...pretty good deal I think.

I get the drift of what you are saying about an M6 and the plot.
Which M3 did you find best?

On the general point of moving on; if I am going to get into sandbox play - empire building - as you say you did in X2, which of the games would you think offers the most challenge and interest.
Which game have you enjoyed most?

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Post by Afterburnerz » Fri, 12. Aug 11, 04:46

Hi

Kryten posted an interesting topic - [X2] Delaying the Kha'ak Invasion - back on 18 October 2007. Well worth checking out.


http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=


Nanook posted the following :
There's one other condition which precedes the above. You have to do the first two missions and then visit Noah in the Goner Temple. If you let the first two missions expire, the Kha'ak will immediately appear. Of course, as a result of not triggering the Kha'ak, you get Brett following you all around the universe until you do. Hope you like annoying little twits tagging along.
After playing X2 for over 130 days , with more stations than you can poke a light sabre at, far too many TS's (lol) , etc - the Kha'ak Invasion still hadn't been triggered.

IMO X2 is still the most fun , but - hey - maybe it's the space fuel talking.

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Post by siddham » Fri, 12. Aug 11, 05:53

Afterburnerz wrote:
After playing X2 for over 130 days , with more stations than you can poke a light sabre at, far too many TS's (lol) , etc - the Kha'ak Invasion still hadn't been triggered
Well that's good enough for me. Thanks.

Not sure if I have the heart to start over from scratch. But They sure are a pain in the ass. My Nova is just not a good enough ship to handle the larger clusters of 17 or more M5s. It's too slow to get away from them or lead them anywhere else; they are too fast to target and hit with my guns; and the concentrated fire and missiles from 17+ M5s strips my shields pretty quickly.
Also the capital ships seem to have very little sensor range. I often see a cluster pass within a couple of hexes on the map of one without either paying any heed to the other. The capital ship in Ore Belt is useless. If you could ask the Capt to help that would be great but all I can ask him is the way to nowhere useful.
That's why I think the only answer is to save enough cash for an M6. Then at least I should be able to quickly clear out a sector giving me some time for other stuff. At the moment the Khaak are completely dominating gameplay. They determine where I go and what I do. I have very little time for managing my fabs and replacing ships etc. No question of putting any more fabs in. I just never have enough time between attacks. I wouldn't mind so much if I at least had a ship I could take them on in.

I could always just abandon the worst of the sectors eg Ore Belt and let the Khaak do their worst there while I focus on building-up a revenue stream in the safer sectors. Pull back to the core sectors for a while and re-group. That's probably what I will do.

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