Boarding
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Boarding
Bernd says that we can hire boarding crew, so that means ship boarding is IN!
In intrigued to known about the details, what ships will be able to board, can the stations be boarded?
Subsystem targeting mean we can disable and disarm ships before attempting to board them?
How the boarding crew gets to the target ship? space walk? and from what ship can be launched?
So, we capture a ship, and its damaged (probably engine disabled too) how we can repair it?
In intrigued to known about the details, what ships will be able to board, can the stations be boarded?
Subsystem targeting mean we can disable and disarm ships before attempting to board them?
How the boarding crew gets to the target ship? space walk? and from what ship can be launched?
So, we capture a ship, and its damaged (probably engine disabled too) how we can repair it?
I'm concerned if boarding is going to be as binary as X3. Piracy was pretty much a complete success(plus capture) or failure(all hands lost), with very few shades of grey. This can be a big problem as the current plan for capital ships is bigger, badder, awesomer.
A single ship can be a gigantic swing for players, and too many easy captures can really devalue how important they are. If you're capping super destroyers every time, that's almost as bad, if not worse than throwing endless waves of mercs to their death.
Is there going to be some middling ground for piracy? Sometimes it's just good to take loot, or disable engines, or blind a ship, or "recruit" crew, or something like that.
A single ship can be a gigantic swing for players, and too many easy captures can really devalue how important they are. If you're capping super destroyers every time, that's almost as bad, if not worse than throwing endless waves of mercs to their death.
Is there going to be some middling ground for piracy? Sometimes it's just good to take loot, or disable engines, or blind a ship, or "recruit" crew, or something like that.
I think it should be more costly to board a ship than to simply purchase it. After all, most countries would sooner ask Lockheed to build a fighter jet for them than try to steal one from the U.S. Air Force.
That way, boarding would have a unique purpose, and not make purchasing/manufacturing ships redundant.
That way, boarding would have a unique purpose, and not make purchasing/manufacturing ships redundant.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in figuring out how to make it worse.
That would be nice. But I don't know if the engine is going to allow that (It IS a space sim after all). I would already be happy to hear some radio chatter with some background fighting noise. Once in a while a status report like:
"About to breach the command deck. Ready when you give the order, Sir"
"Facing considerable resistance in the engine room. Requesting back up!"
Perhaps we can even assign limited orders like an evacuate order, thus we can get some survivors of a failed boarding attempt. It at least would crank up the atmosphere a lot.
"About to breach the command deck. Ready when you give the order, Sir"
"Facing considerable resistance in the engine room. Requesting back up!"
Perhaps we can even assign limited orders like an evacuate order, thus we can get some survivors of a failed boarding attempt. It at least would crank up the atmosphere a lot.
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Or it would be kool if there is some high risk maneuver:
- Marine: Control! We're pinned down before the engine room, we can't move forward. Please advise!
- Control: Marine, please update your position.
- Marine: we're on deck 5, starboard.
- Control: roger, fall back to the previous bulkhead and secure a shelter.
- Marine: ... a shelter? huh?
- Control: t-minus 5 seconds until dangerously close bombardment.
- Marine: bomba ... bombardment!! Control, I didn't ask for fire support!!
- Control: too late ... hide somewhere.
- Marine: holy ****!!!
- Marine: Control! We're pinned down before the engine room, we can't move forward. Please advise!
- Control: Marine, please update your position.
- Marine: we're on deck 5, starboard.
- Control: roger, fall back to the previous bulkhead and secure a shelter.
- Marine: ... a shelter? huh?
- Control: t-minus 5 seconds until dangerously close bombardment.
- Marine: bomba ... bombardment!! Control, I didn't ask for fire support!!
- Control: too late ... hide somewhere.
- Marine: holy ****!!!
Mightysword wrote:Or it would be kool if there is some high risk maneuver:
- Marine: Control! We're pinned down before the engine room, we can't move forward. Please advise!
- Control: Marine, please update your position.
- Marine: we're on deck 5, starboard.
- Control: roger, fall back to the previous bulkhead and secure a shelter.
- Marine: ... a shelter? huh?
- Control: t-minus 5 seconds until dangerously close bombardment.
- Marine: bomba ... bombardment!! Control, I didn't ask for fire support!!
- Control: too late ... hide somewhere.
- Marine: holy ****!!!
It would certainly create atmosphere! Awesome!
Or think about modular and npc-wise possibilities :
-Landing troops on a station and watch them sabotage an essential part.
-Or even capturing the station.
-Disabling the engines of a carreer from the inside, and wait till every fighter/drone/whatever lands back, then capturing the yummy price
-Taking prisoners, or even hiring them to work for you, or even questioning them about their company's activities, designs etc.
-controling more than a single boarding team strategically through the npc interaction thingy.
-only capturing one of the main turrets on the ship and ability use it against it's own figthers/drones/etc.
-planning a strategical assault on the ships defense systems/modules, and once succeeded sending the remaining troops; or sending the troopers on a death mission to disable the ships defenses and blowing it up while they're in there
I even had modular dream last night, that's how much they emphasise on modularity!
-Landing troops on a station and watch them sabotage an essential part.
-Or even capturing the station.
-Disabling the engines of a carreer from the inside, and wait till every fighter/drone/whatever lands back, then capturing the yummy price
-Taking prisoners, or even hiring them to work for you, or even questioning them about their company's activities, designs etc.
-controling more than a single boarding team strategically through the npc interaction thingy.
-only capturing one of the main turrets on the ship and ability use it against it's own figthers/drones/etc.
-planning a strategical assault on the ships defense systems/modules, and once succeeded sending the remaining troops; or sending the troopers on a death mission to disable the ships defenses and blowing it up while they're in there
I even had modular dream last night, that's how much they emphasise on modularity!
I thought about the prisoner option - in TC there's the 'kill the dangerous criminal' missions... so why not have them 'capture the dangerous criminal and bring him back to justice for the reward' (and keep the ship ) missions too!
They do need to tweak the marine battle algorithm though - I find that marine quantity works much better than marine skill.
They do need to tweak the marine battle algorithm though - I find that marine quantity works much better than marine skill.
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I think we know exactly how boarding will be done. Look at that torpedo drone and it says "Serves many specialized purposes." Doesn't it look exactly like a boarding pod?
I think that is a boarding craft right there or at least one of em. Also, since we are going to be building ships with special modules, I don't think its inconceivable that we'd need to steal technology to make the the biggest warships.
Also, everything needs resources now, so breaking down stolen ships could be quite useful...
I think that is a boarding craft right there or at least one of em. Also, since we are going to be building ships with special modules, I don't think its inconceivable that we'd need to steal technology to make the the biggest warships.
Also, everything needs resources now, so breaking down stolen ships could be quite useful...
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This is true, boarding operations should not be a money maker. If you want a ship so much that you are going to board it (for looks, or reverse engineer, etc), then it should be a long, dangerous, and expensive affair.KloHunt3r wrote:I think it should be more costly to board a ship than to simply purchase it. After all, most countries would sooner ask Lockheed to build a fighter jet for them than try to steal one from the U.S. Air Force.
That way, boarding would have a unique purpose, and not make purchasing/manufacturing ships redundant.
Also, it should require lots, and lots of troops. 10 marines taking an M6 is fine. 10 marines taking an M2? Kind of weird.
Now, going back to boarding, will we have boarding drones? Sort of like the M7 boarding pods?
What? come again?KloHunt3r wrote:I think it should be more costly to board a ship than to simply purchase it. After all, most countries would sooner ask Lockheed to build a fighter jet for them than try to steal one from the U.S. Air Force.
That way, boarding would have a unique purpose, and not make purchasing/manufacturing ships redundant.
Boarding would have a "unique purpose" under your proposal?
You failed to mention that purpose, you only mentioned which purpose you want to take away - the "cheap" way of getting damaged, expensive to repair ships with missing components.
First off, captured ships really haven't made buying ships redundant in any X game so far... they would help to get some ships in the beginning, but not much beyond that, as other activities quickly became a lot more efficient to make money for more ships...
Making it somehow "expensive" to capture ships (how?) would make no sense. I don't see the relevance of people not stealing U.S. fighter jets in relation to a space game. If you hit a fighter jet bad enough that the pilot decides to eject, the plane crashes to the ground and can't be stolen, just cause it got obliterated by crashing into the ground.
If airforces were fighting in space, where things just keep floating about after the pilot ejects, people would take/salvage/steal the fighters. And as its already been in the X games, fixing them up is expensive.
Mr. Lehan was already hinting that sometimes, it might be useful to sabotage something, rather than just blowing it up...
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Oh yeah, try to think of this scenario. You snag the USS Enterprise from the Navy, blow up all the pursuer. Then you go to Somalia cost and blow up a few pirate, then you can go back to Pearl Harbor and the government will give you a hero of the federation welcome. Oh, and they also let you keep the ship and totally forgot you steal it from the first place.nielsw wrote:I don't see the relevance of people not stealing U.S. fighter jets in relation to a space game. If you hit a fighter jet bad enough that the pilot decides to eject, the plane crashes to the ground and can't be stolen, just cause it got obliterated by crashing into the ground.
In case you want an analogy ... that's exactly what you can do with the Argon One. The current system has virtually no repercussion at all.
Why does boarding = capturing in this game?
For all we know, you might need to board a ship in order to steal it's cargo. Instead of the ship dumping a crate of 1000 ore, you actually need to board the ship to transfer the cargo off. There are several reasons to board a ship that don't include stealing it. If ships now need crew to fly, where do these people come from? Trust the existing crew to stand by you now that you've attacked their ship and killed their mates? Not likely. If capturing is possible, you might even need enough marines to take the ship, then enough marines/crew to keep it without a mutiny.
Just keep in mind that capturing ships has been a staple of previous X titles, but I've not seen mention of it for rebirth so it might not even be possible to capture any ships. Boarding does NOT imply capturing.
For all we know, you might need to board a ship in order to steal it's cargo. Instead of the ship dumping a crate of 1000 ore, you actually need to board the ship to transfer the cargo off. There are several reasons to board a ship that don't include stealing it. If ships now need crew to fly, where do these people come from? Trust the existing crew to stand by you now that you've attacked their ship and killed their mates? Not likely. If capturing is possible, you might even need enough marines to take the ship, then enough marines/crew to keep it without a mutiny.
Just keep in mind that capturing ships has been a staple of previous X titles, but I've not seen mention of it for rebirth so it might not even be possible to capture any ships. Boarding does NOT imply capturing.
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Wishing for this type of badass boarding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9k9brKVngI
2:10
Who needs to cut trought the hull
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9k9brKVngI
2:10
Who needs to cut trought the hull
Not strictly true. Large countries do not board each other properties due to politicial ramifications. While a militia force almost certainly lacks the manpower to assault very large targets like a carrier.caleb wrote:This is true, boarding operations should not be a money maker. If you want a ship so much that you are going to board it (for looks, or reverse engineer, etc), then it should be a long, dangerous, and expensive affair.KloHunt3r wrote:I think it should be more costly to board a ship than to simply purchase it. After all, most countries would sooner ask Lockheed to build a fighter jet for them than try to steal one from the U.S. Air Force.
That way, boarding would have a unique purpose, and not make purchasing/manufacturing ships redundant.
Also, it should require lots, and lots of troops. 10 marines taking an M6 is fine. 10 marines taking an M2? Kind of weird.
Now, going back to boarding, will we have boarding drones? Sort of like the M7 boarding pods?
But boarding CAN be profittable (See example: Pirates in Somalia), and theres no reason that a large enough boatful of armed men COULDN'T capture a carrier - they'd also have to deal with the fact the original owner will likely send all sorts of ordinance and teams after it, a big turn off in real life again.
But if you're playing an X universe pirates, and have balls so big they clank as you walk, then even these repercussions might not turn you off the idea, and you might well pull it off.
That kind of cost would be fine. Not only monetary cost, but a cost in political repercussions would be good. The whole Argon army SHOULD come after you when you board the Argon one...Ryuujin wrote:Not strictly true. Large countries do not board each other properties due to politicial ramifications. While a militia force almost certainly lacks the manpower to assault very large targets like a carrier.
But boarding CAN be profittable (See example: Pirates in Somalia), and theres no reason that a large enough boatful of armed men COULDN'T capture a carrier - they'd also have to deal with the fact the original owner will likely send all sorts of ordinance and teams after it, a big turn off in real life again.
But if you're playing an X universe pirates, and have balls so big they clank as you walk, then even these repercussions might not turn you off the idea, and you might well pull it off.
So as long as there is a large monetary, or political cost assigned to it, then it should be fine. In old X games, you can pretty much get any ship and get away with it which is pretty weird...