steam achievements in a **modified** game?

[amtct]

You are in actual fact 14 arnt you Adrian? Go on admit you are in fact amtcts son?!

I can't be 14 because my son is 25 and yes I play more games than him.I even played TC on a laptop in my car while driving .The most scary part is that we have in off topic some people that are even older that play more games than me

[greypanther]

No its just another reason.

[Gazz]

The achievmements crap is yet another reason why I dislike Steam! Its just complete BS! What is the point?

Selling units.

A lot of players just aren't good at setting their own goals.
Achievements give them orders to do this or that. Following orders is easy.

The "tasks" are usually 20000% pointless but that's not the point. There isn't one. Hence pointless.

[greypanther]

Thats actually quite sad Gazz; don't people have imagination? Perhaps just a reflection of modern society, lots of sheep, few leaders. Perhaps life is too easy in the so called 1st world.

( Better shut up now before this becomes off topic! )

[Arragoth]

i never cared for archievement in any game, that includes the X series as well
But i am a sucker for plots/storylines and thats often my "guideline" in games..
But in X i create my own goals, as and mostly conquest ones (i am a savage split afterall )

But **modified** archievemnt even though not interrested myself, i dont think its "fair" since you can mod the game too oblivion making yourself uberstrong and filthy rich with ease, making the archievements so easy too reach its become pointless..

but thats my view, everyone else is entitles too his/hers

[Scoob]

Hi,

In some games achievements can be fun, a nice way to set goals for the player along with nice rewards. I actually dabble in Lego Universe and it can be quite fun teaming up with friends to get the "smash so many bad guys" reward etc.

I never however saw the point in TC. For me the Vanilla universe is rather...boring really (it's been around a while now lol), so I can see why "achievements" might help people set goals for themselves when there's not much else to do. Do you actually get rewards in TC then? I've never actually run a totally vanilla game, well at least not since these achievements were an option... Personally I'd have a good mod, such as XRM, and a dozen or so good scripts installed to make my universe an interesting place to be.

As for getting achiements when you're *modified* so Playing by DIFFERENT rules to everyone else well, that's pointless, as your "achievement" means NOTHING next to another player who's done it while following defined game rules - rules that can be totally negated via a script. Thing is Egosoft cannot monitor what the scripts/mod etc. you install actually do, so have to eliminate ANY modified game from qualifying. Sound fair to me. If you've chosen to NOT play the game as the developers intended (like me) then that's fair enough.

Cheers,

Scoob.

[Xeroeth]

I'm one of these few who actually like these achievements. My goal for getting them ? Nothing else but satisfaction and fun, setting your own goals is one thing, but when you actually start to play a new game, just after you aquire it you can't tell what's lurking after one or another corner. Basicaly you can set your goals as simple as "get your first 10000000 credits" or "conquere these parts of world" or better "conquere the whole world", the main idea is to give you some starting points, when you don't know well the game yet, in some cases give the players a bit of competition if the results are online like we have them in X universe.

[Gazz]

But **modified** archievemnt even though not interrested myself, i dont think its "fair" since you can mod the game too oblivion making yourself uberstrong and filthy rich with ease, making the archievements so easy too reach its become pointless..

Actually, getting the game **modified** should be an achievement, too. =P

[amtct]

But **modified** archievemnt even though not interrested myself, i dont think its "fair" since you can mod the game too oblivion making yourself uberstrong and filthy rich with ease, making the archievements so easy too reach its become pointless..

Actually, getting the game **modified** should be an achievement, too. =P

That would be Gazz achievement. If you want to cheat you unlock Cycrow achievement and if you use only M2 ships you get the LV achievement.If you spam the Script and modding forum with "I want multiplayer" you get the "ban me achievement"

[Gazz]

If you spam the Script and modding forum with "I want multiplayer" you get the "ban me achievement" :D

Nope, your avatar gets a dunce cap for one week.

[Cycrow]

i think it'll be nice to have both modified and vanilla achivements

some being available only to vanilla games, some only to modified games, and some that are for both.

i just see achivements as a bit of fun, or for some challenges, shouldn't really matter if the game is vanilla or not, its not like you get anything from them other than your own satisfaction

[Gazz]

A few days ago a few guys were talking (IRL!) about how they had this many points and this or that achievement in .
How good/l33t/pwn they were wasn't even an issue!
Their completely totally pointless achievements were!

I won't claim that I understand that but I filed the mere fact for future reference.
No matter how unimportant achievements may be for me, they are important for a moden game. Period.


Hell, I bet I could convince a bunch of vanilla players to go modified just by scripting a list of completely pointless achievements!
The perfidious villany of that plan should be worth at least 2000 Evil Overlord Points.

[Virtualaughing]

Because massive exploits of the game all around on forums i dont believe in the whole thing. There is few things you can not cheat with such as destroyed asteroids or so...

However all type of gamestart has to be non modified if no other scripts around that the signed ones. Also individual slots required for all type of gamestart on the uplink.

[ragamer]

Achievements for unmodded game only, soz...

...Here are the reassons why.

Most achievements you see on any platform are simply stupid things that "happen along the way", somekind of "farming mode" with virtual ranks for the better farmers, but...

...Some Devs create challenge achievements that require you to play the game in very specific ways, far from the "average" gameplay, which in turn increase the longetivity of the product, and usually, along the way, you discover a whole bunch of things Devs want you to that you would have missed easily otherwise.

The only way to trigger a real challenge between you and the games' Dev is the Dev to control precissely the mechanics involved... Sadly, modding capability removes the need to accept the challenge originally planned by the Dev and instead bypassing it.

This is how I understand fun achievements, the ones worthy to go for...

...Personally I give a damn on what others see about my achievements, never cared, it has always been a personal experience between me and the Dev team behind the game I like.

Of course, most game achievement tables are nothing like the above... Just a simple e-peen meter that any1 with time can "fill" up to go around showing off... As if it mattered.

You may wonder, if you don't care about others?, why you don't want any1 to do them "in their style"?... Because developing fun achievements cost time and the mayority of the "achievement-whores" are the e-penis kind, they need to feel they didn't "cheat" their way through them when comparing with others... if this desire of the mayority is not fullfilled, there is not such an encouragement for Devs to invest the time needed to create fun challenges worth beating.

If you want to understand the difference, try a game called Dungeons (A remake of Dungeon Keeper) and try to get all the goals for each map... You will realize that they force you to play in ways you wouldn't otherwise.

Note: I don't know if it's correct to mention other games on this forums... But as it's not related to the genre and only used as the best example of the differences between a challenge and achievement farming... I think I'm doing no harm.

[Mightysword]

Is there some kind of crusade against the achievement system or something? To the people who bashing achievement ... the fact that you're loading so much ammo into your gun to flak the system prove that you probably care more about it than you want to admit. Sure, you might be on the Tsun side instead of the dere dere side, but don't say you're uncare, you's obviously do


I can't say I like or dislike the system. Sometime I find it fun, most of the time I ignore it. In the end it's just an extra facet of the game, if you like it ... cool, if not it doesn't like it cost you an arm and a leg to ignore. If your problem lie with how other people view it ... well then I don't think the problem lie with the system

[Cycrow]

Achievements for unmodded game only, soz...

...Here are the reassons why.

Most achievements you see on any platform are simply stupid things that "happen along the way", somekind of "farming mode" with virtual ranks for the better farmers, but...

...Some Devs create challenge achievements that require you to play the game in very specific ways, far from the "average" gameplay, which in turn increase the longetivity of the product, and usually, along the way, you discover a whole bunch of things Devs want you to that you would have missed easily otherwise.

The only way to trigger a real challenge between you and the games' Dev is the Dev to control precissely the mechanics involved... Sadly, modding capability removes the need to accept the challenge originally planned by the Dev and instead bypassing it.

the problem here, is that if ur playing a modifed game, then you dont have access to the achivements anyways, so you dont get to do the challenge, so what difference does it really make ?

so having it in vanilla only, those that are modified dont even get to see the challenge the devs have made, let alone even attempt it.

if its available to modified games, then at least its there for them to do, it might not be exactly the same due to changes, but at least its still there and do able, and it wont effect anyone that plays the game vanilla anyway.

[Scoob]

I've generally found that there are lots of ways to challenge myself without the need to be given something to do. Ok, posts of other peoples experiences will sometimes give me ideas of something fun to try, but other than that I play the game in my way.

To be honest, my modded game play-style is so very different to my Vanilla one. My modded games tend to be quite a bit harder for a start, have loads more ships (XRM) smarter features (MARS, MBRR etc.) have more options for interesting play (NPC Bailing, Salvage Commands) - the challenge for me is initially to simply survive while making money & gaining my own little fleet etc.

I think having published "goals" is fine for anyone to try for, however recognising an "achievement" when the rules are different doesn't work. I mean, if one achievement was time to gain first M2, one player proudly posts that after 5 game days he's saved up for one. Another got his from marine boarding on day 2, someone else got his on day 1 via an NPC bail whereas another person has theirs at minute 1 because in their *Modified* game they start with it... Makes "achivements" pretty worthless...well, to me anyway.

Cheers,

Scoob.

[ragamer]

the problem here, is that if ur playing a modifed game, then you dont have access to the achivements anyways, so you dont get to do the challenge, so what difference does it really make ?

I think you misunderstood me... I will try the argument in a different order:

1) Most "achievement sensitive" players like to show off the long list of things they have managed. For them is a plus to buy the product.

2) They cannot brag if someone else blame them of cheating... Which, for them, means ALL players should be playing "the same game".

3) Devs want to increase sales, so they have to appeal to this way to think.

4) Once it's agreed that the Dev team can invest time into creating achievement tables there is a chance (usually slim) that some Dev, the ones that know their game better, finds an unorthodox way to challenge their players... Triggering a new way to play for it.


I hope this time the "event flow" is clearer... I want a chance for 4) to happen... But the only realistic way to have it is that 1), 2), 3) also happen.


I chose the example game because the goals per map are mutually exclusive and getting them nets extra progress for your game character... Meaning you have to play the map again "in a different way" to get that extra progress... The final touch is that each line of goals is tied to very different ways to play the game which, in turn, makes you appreciate the different challenges persons with other tastes would face... ie you enjoy a more integral experience of your product.

[martens]

By the way what's with the ability to mod? Is a mod detected as cheat and if so will your account be banned? I mean only very few mods ever have gotten a signature from Egosoft. The rest always was a *modified* mod. And as I know Steam you can't modify the game files without getting problems.

I have chose Yes, because achievements are unnecessary and are not affecting the game itself. As a consequence no one has any advantage of cheating a achievement. That means you shouldn't punish them for doing so.

[ragamer]

By the way what's with the ability to mod? Is a mod detected as cheat and if so will your account be banned? I mean only very few mods ever have gotten a signature from Egosoft. The rest always was a *modified* mod. And as I know Steam you can't modify the game files without getting problems.

Steam only checks for integrity of each game "inventory". If that game "modded" resources are created outside the original package, they are invisible to Steam. Is the case of the entire X series, as you have a dedicated way to include Modded data as new .cat files out of Steam Control...

...If you directly modify the default .cat files, executables/dlls or scripts then you will be in trouble on a Steam installation.

I don't see why XRB would remove the capabilities to "inject" new content without touching the default package... This time I'm praying they have an additive logic as the basic paradigm... Not a replacing one, which was the source of most pains while combining mods.