steam achievements in a **modified** game?

[Cycrow]

Achievements for unmodded game only, soz...

...Here are the reassons why.

Most achievements you see on any platform are simply stupid things that "happen along the way", somekind of "farming mode" with virtual ranks for the better farmers, but...

...Some Devs create challenge achievements that require you to play the game in very specific ways, far from the "average" gameplay, which in turn increase the longetivity of the product, and usually, along the way, you discover a whole bunch of things Devs want you to that you would have missed easily otherwise.

The only way to trigger a real challenge between you and the games' Dev is the Dev to control precissely the mechanics involved... Sadly, modding capability removes the need to accept the challenge originally planned by the Dev and instead bypassing it.

the problem here, is that if ur playing a modifed game, then you dont have access to the achivements anyways, so you dont get to do the challenge, so what difference does it really make ?

so having it in vanilla only, those that are modified dont even get to see the challenge the devs have made, let alone even attempt it.

if its available to modified games, then at least its there for them to do, it might not be exactly the same due to changes, but at least its still there and do able, and it wont effect anyone that plays the game vanilla anyway.

[Scoob]

I've generally found that there are lots of ways to challenge myself without the need to be given something to do. Ok, posts of other peoples experiences will sometimes give me ideas of something fun to try, but other than that I play the game in my way.

To be honest, my modded game play-style is so very different to my Vanilla one. My modded games tend to be quite a bit harder for a start, have loads more ships (XRM) smarter features (MARS, MBRR etc.) have more options for interesting play (NPC Bailing, Salvage Commands) - the challenge for me is initially to simply survive while making money & gaining my own little fleet etc.

I think having published "goals" is fine for anyone to try for, however recognising an "achievement" when the rules are different doesn't work. I mean, if one achievement was time to gain first M2, one player proudly posts that after 5 game days he's saved up for one. Another got his from marine boarding on day 2, someone else got his on day 1 via an NPC bail whereas another person has theirs at minute 1 because in their *Modified* game they start with it... Makes "achivements" pretty worthless...well, to me anyway.

Cheers,

Scoob.

[ragamer]

the problem here, is that if ur playing a modifed game, then you dont have access to the achivements anyways, so you dont get to do the challenge, so what difference does it really make ?

I think you misunderstood me... I will try the argument in a different order:

1) Most "achievement sensitive" players like to show off the long list of things they have managed. For them is a plus to buy the product.

2) They cannot brag if someone else blame them of cheating... Which, for them, means ALL players should be playing "the same game".

3) Devs want to increase sales, so they have to appeal to this way to think.

4) Once it's agreed that the Dev team can invest time into creating achievement tables there is a chance (usually slim) that some Dev, the ones that know their game better, finds an unorthodox way to challenge their players... Triggering a new way to play for it.


I hope this time the "event flow" is clearer... I want a chance for 4) to happen... But the only realistic way to have it is that 1), 2), 3) also happen.


I chose the example game because the goals per map are mutually exclusive and getting them nets extra progress for your game character... Meaning you have to play the map again "in a different way" to get that extra progress... The final touch is that each line of goals is tied to very different ways to play the game which, in turn, makes you appreciate the different challenges persons with other tastes would face... ie you enjoy a more integral experience of your product.

[martens]

By the way what's with the ability to mod? Is a mod detected as cheat and if so will your account be banned? I mean only very few mods ever have gotten a signature from Egosoft. The rest always was a *modified* mod. And as I know Steam you can't modify the game files without getting problems.

I have chose Yes, because achievements are unnecessary and are not affecting the game itself. As a consequence no one has any advantage of cheating a achievement. That means you shouldn't punish them for doing so.

[ragamer]

By the way what's with the ability to mod? Is a mod detected as cheat and if so will your account be banned? I mean only very few mods ever have gotten a signature from Egosoft. The rest always was a *modified* mod. And as I know Steam you can't modify the game files without getting problems.

Steam only checks for integrity of each game "inventory". If that game "modded" resources are created outside the original package, they are invisible to Steam. Is the case of the entire X series, as you have a dedicated way to include Modded data as new .cat files out of Steam Control...

...If you directly modify the default .cat files, executables/dlls or scripts then you will be in trouble on a Steam installation.

I don't see why XRB would remove the capabilities to "inject" new content without touching the default package... This time I'm praying they have an additive logic as the basic paradigm... Not a replacing one, which was the source of most pains while combining mods.

[strude]

It did actually have potential problems in Steam installations of TC, as some scripters modified some of the original game files to their needs. TC's scripting system did provide methods of modifying the behaviour of the default scripts without changing them. I assume most of the big name scripters used the non Steam installation, and as such didn't consider the issue.

It probably explains a lot of the problem reports that arose, especially after a patch, where simply reinstalling the scripts fixed the problem. Steam was most likely restoring those edited files back the their "clean" state during a patch/verify, breaking or changing the behaviour of the user scripts.

[Gazz]

some scripters modified some of the original game files to their needs. TC's scripting system did provide methods of modifying the behaviour of the default scripts without changing them.

Most of the time you are correct but there are a few cases where there is no choice but to hack the vanilla script.

[Killjaeden]

I seriously hope there will be a non steam version to begin with. It just creates problems when modding (steam trying to "repair" a modded game on itself and so on).
And ontopic: I voted no, because i don't want "you just collected your 100th unit of poo" popups. They pull me out of my immersion. If there is an option to disable achievements then i would vote for "i dont care" or even "yes" to be fair and let people, who need to be told that they achieved something, have their fun as well =P

[caleb]

I guess I go for the "don't care" option as well. It's a single player game, so the only achievements that are worth it, are the ones I place myself. I understand achievements in competitive MMOs, or multiplayer games, but in single player games?