Are you a fluent coder of XML ?

[apricotslice]

Assuming you answer yes to the title,

I'd like to assemble a list of people who are fluent in XML, who are prepared to pick up the scripting slack that Ego moving to XML will bring in the scripting side of modding.

And a second list, more importantly, of those who are willing to code other people's ideas.

There are only about a handful of MD coders for the game at this point in time, and of these, none have really been available to code other people's ideas.

It looks like the scripting torch will need to be passed on, but that will leave a lot of people with great ideas, who are unable to code them.

Hence I see the need to get a pool of XML coders listed, who are willing to work with experienced X scripters to ensure the new great ideas actually come to life.

The big question I guess is....... Are there any XML coders around, and are there any who are willing to code other people's ideas ?

Dont be shy, stand forth and be counted.


Available for Small tasks :
Inauxas

Available for helping/teaching :
Inauxas

Available for Big Mods :


XML Programmers, uncommitted :
(ie. want to see how its implemented before saying yes they will be available to do anything)
delray
hokiturmix
perkint
eldyranx3
Kitty

[Inauxas]

I do not have the free time to dedicate to actually scripting large projects, but as far as helping out, offering advice, teaching a little and even scripting up some little things as examples for others to learn off of I can manage I think. I am a .NET developer in RL so I have a little experience with XML .

Overall though you will find it much easier than a full-blown language. If they are making their engine run off XML based scripts then it will be a change from what you are used to but not less powerful. It will be hard to explain as I have no experience with their previous language but I feel once you and other experienced modders look at the changes you will see.

This is geared more towards web stuff but the concept is what you need: http://www.w3schools.com/xml/

Anyways, if you need help with something, I offered it to you in another thread actually since I have used some of your stuff in X3, just PM me and we can exchange info.

[apricotslice]

Thanks for that.

Your at the top of the new lists !

[delray]

Yes, I've spent years opening and closing tags. But let's see the actual format first before we commit to something?

I'm actually very happy it's going to be in XML.

[ScRaT_GER]

apricotslice, please look at the existing AI example script and notice how it's not much different from MSCI:

Just an example snippet from the linked script:

Code: Select all

      <!-- Initialize evasive maneuver variables -->
      <set_value name="$lastevadetime" exact="0" />
      <set_value name="$doevade" exact="0" />
		  
      <!-- Set up primary weapons to fire on target -->
      <label name="fireandmaneuver" />
      <shoot_at object="this.ship" target="$target" slot="tag.primary_slot" tolerance="15.0deg" locktarget="true" />

      <stop_moving object="this.ship"/>
		  
      <!-- Repeat until target is dead -->
      <do_while value="$target">
... etc

Let's translate that into MSCI:

Code: Select all

* Initialize evasive maneuver variables
$lastevadetime = 0
$doevade = 0

* Set up primary weapons to fire on target
fireandmaneuver:
[THIS] -> shoot at object: target=$target slot=[PrimarySlot] tolerance=15 locktarget=[TRUE]

[THIS] -> stop moving

* Repeat until target is dead
while $target
... etc.

So, what's the big deal? Yes, it's much more verbose, but the logic is the same.

Greetings,
ScRaT

[apricotslice]

I freely admit that I couldnt do it either way. That kind of script was beyond me in the script editor as well.

Your not wrong about verbose though. I find the SE a lot easier to read.

So which list am I adding you to ScRaT_GER ?

[ragamer]

XML is not a programing language... Is just a syntax a program uses to do something with the hicherarchy (ie relations between objects) described there.

Any1 can write in XML... The though part is understanding what those objects do... And sadly that ball is on Ego's roof ATM.

The difficulty and "work hours" required to translate an idea to a certain XML file/s will just be determined by the API Ego develops to "translate" our XML files into actions in the game, as that's unknown ATM, consequent ppl cannot "apply" to fullfill any "permanent" modding role... As the basics are still unknown.

XML is just plain text with a default way to express parent-child relations... Really, Apricotslice, XML is not the Devil... The new API (ie what those tags do ingame) may be and no1 but Devs themselves know how "easy" or "hard" will be to learn it... We can have another "MD case" some ppl is very "traumatized with" or something else... Sadly too soon for me, for example, to compromise.

[apricotslice]

Really, Apricotslice, XML is not the Devil...

I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying that I cannot write it. And enough other people have said the same that I thought making a list of people who can would be useful.

[ragamer]

I'm just saying that I cannot write it

And I'm trying to convince you that you can... You have been doing it regularly for years...

...The trick is that you have been using a template completion assistant... Called "the ingame script editor" that made it look like if you were writing in a traditional "per line" language as C or basic...

...But the final data of the scripts was already XML "code", you just used a mechanism that made it look different, both at input and output.

[apricotslice]

Ok, I'll rephrase then.

I'm just saying that I cannot write it without a template completion assistant.

[Virtualaughing]

If we can develop weapon systems and ships freely then i think i will take a look at xml. If the hierarchy will be similar to freelancer then it wont be a problem to do it.

[Gazz]

Really, Apricotslice, XML is not the Devil...

Okay, it's only an agent of Satan. =)

I'm not really concerned about XML on principle but rather more basic syntax issues that I talked about in another thread.
Not going to rehash it here.

[ScRaT_GER]

I'm just saying that I cannot write it without a template completion assistant.

But why not? I know the difficulties that many (including me) have with the MD, but I think that they didn't arise because of XML per se, but because of a lack of documentation, good examples (most of the ES missions - especially the generic ones - are quite unreadable) and good debugging tools.

None of these problems, besides the last, should arise in the new AI scripting language, because the logic seems to be the same as in MSCI.
But instead of writing
"= $ship -> use jumpdrive: target=$sector"
you write
<use_jumpdrive object="$ship" target="$sector"/>

You have to admit, that it's not that different.

Greetings,
ScRaT

[apricotslice]

I admit, its not that different.

It doesnt change my statement though.

[DeepFried]

XML is just a markup language, you can no more script in it than you can script in BBCode.

XML is usually used for data structures and to be frank with the right tools anyone can work with XML.

Pretty much any modern programming language can be used to program XML data with the appropriate API, so just saying its XML tells us almost exactly nothing.

[ScRaT_GER]

I don't know what you're getting at. Are you aware of the Mission Director and the new AI scripting language?

I admit, its not that different.
It doesnt change my statement though.

Which statement? The following one?

I'm just saying that I cannot write it without a template completion assistant.

If so, why not?

Greetings,
ScRaT

[em3e3]

Knowing XML is like knowing punctuation - it makes information easier to read and gives it structure. It is not like knowing a language, because XML is arbitrary - anyone can decide what tags and data to use in an XML document, as long as the document follows simple rules.

So what you really need is people who are versed and skilled in the Egosoft implementation of XML - what tags, attributes, and tree structure they've arbitrarily decided are valid. Since no one outside of ES knows this, we can only follow Bernd's recommendation - get familiar with MD.

And just for the record, I hate XML. I use it almost everyday, and see it's advantages as a data store, but it's just so wordy compared to JSON, Objects/Arrays, and SQL datasets.

[apricotslice]

I repeat. I have already tried and failed to get a working MD file going. I spent months on a number of different ones. I didnt get a single one of them to even run once. I gave up.

MD is technically beyond my current abilities, and these are progessively worsening with age.

20 years ago, I would have been able to pick this up without any trouble. Not now. I know my limitations, and the MD is well outside them.

[Nividium]

You're not the only one Apricotslice. I am getting too old to learn new stuff too. I would have an easier time learning Japanese than MD or XML. See, MD は技術的には私の現在の能力を超えてです。

[apricotslice]

You're not the only one Apricotslice. I am getting too old to learn new stuff too. I would have an easier time learning Japanese than MD or XML. See, MD は技術的には私の現在の能力を超えてです。

I did try learning Japanese. The only word I remember now is Wakarimasen, which means I dont understand. Its the only phrase I used enough to remember.