M7M's a bit too strong now?

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

I was just in the middle of a normal Xenon invasion; a Q, 10 L's and a bunch of M/N's.
There wasn't any Split military ships in sector, nor OWP.
A Rapid Response Cobra jumps in and the whole invasion is killed within 1 minute. Including the Q.
M7M's were overpowered in player hands before in TC but now the AI use them, they use them very well.

Has anyone tried fighting one yet? It seems like a real daunting task.

[Tohron]

Haven't fought an M7M yet, but I have fought a bomber - they actually stock and use their missiles now - fortunately I was flying a Mamba so I could outrun the missiles while making strafing runs, but if I'd been flying anything slower, I would have been space dust. So yeah, the AI knows how to employ missile-based ships now, be afraid.

[LV]

but now the AI use them, they use them very well.

[ external image ]



AI ain't so stupid now

LV™

[kurush]

AI ain't so stupid now

LV™

It is all cool until M7 and M8 becomes the only game in town... With all new shiny turret scripts is it possible to equip an M7 so that it can defeat the missile spam from M7M or even M8? If no, missiles might need a bit of nerf...

[rusky]

Have you tried using a couple of M6s as a missile screening escort ?

If you think about it, a lone M7 should have serious issues with M7M's and M8s, after all that's what they're supposed to do, kill capital ships with no escort

[gandy|UKCS|]

The M7M's are not to strong.. they work now thats all.. be happy with that

[EmperorJon]

Missiles aren't powerful enough in my opinion...




Well, at least it gives a use for using PSGs now. Plus, I've just enjoyed my first M7MvM7M fight.

I lost, but still.

[BillyBoyFloyd]

I agree about the M7M and Bomber overpower, particularly when you look at the IS - OOS combat disparity; though altered, I don't consider it improved due to IS missle spam.

Just recently, while OOS, I spotted a medium Terran raiding party (M6s + fighters) in a sector swarming with Argon forces, and ships just were not dying at all on either side for a very long time. I jump in to lend a hand and 20 seconds later every single Terran is space debris before I can even get within gun range from the Argon missle spam.

There is also the disparity between bounties and missle costs; the bounties come nowhere near matching missle prices. Even if you don't buy missles and just collect them after battles, they are worth far more sold at an equipment dock than you will ever get from bounties using them. Add in a little combat equipment damage (200MJ shield destroyed!) and combat gets expensive fast.

Maybe we need a "Last Starfighter" Deathblossom for missle countermeasure...

[jocan2003]

With the ability to chenge target priorities for turret commands, i dont have trouble with missiles anymore, i modified to missile defence command to include ennemy as last resorts, so each time a missile pop in turret range it turns around blow the missiles and get back to ennemies, much love coming from this new ability.

[Old Drullo321]

Spoiler

Show

AI ain't so stupid now

That may count for missile ships but I did not recognize that with large ships M7,M2,M1. Still there is no AI turret configuration. In the scripted wars the result is, that both sides waste half of their time trying to kill those little M3-M5 with there anti ship weapons. Ugly to see that

[Sir Warwick]

The problem with M7M is down to the AI just spamming until the target is dead/gone or whatever instead of sending just enough missiles to do the job (ie based upon damage of missiles vs shiled and hull of target) and then not sending anymore until the spam has cleared abit, else a long range flail spam vs a destroyer is killing a perfectly respectable frame rate.

Of course it would help if it didnt try to launch 500+ flails vs a destroyer and instead send a load of hammers at it first.

Anyway - not complaining - Im parking an M7M next to each complex to keep pirates with hostile intent away (though WTF there are still hostile pirates with what must be a good pirate rep by now is beyond me)

[Gazz]

The problem with M7M is down to the AI just spamming until the target is dead/gone or whatever instead of sending just enough missiles to do the job (ie based upon damage of missiles vs shiled and hull of target)

In fact, the turret script does precisely that.
Tailor the missile barrage to the target's current shield/hull but add 15 % based on it's max shield/hull to account for defenses.

The Race Response Fleet missile boats have a completely separate logic and fire a fixed number of missiles, only depending on the target's class.
An M2 will get 18 Tomahawks, whether it's undamaged or has only 1 hull point left.

[jocan2003]

The problem with M7M is down to the AI just spamming until the target is dead/gone or whatever instead of sending just enough missiles to do the job (ie based upon damage of missiles vs shiled and hull of target)

In fact, the turret script does precisely that.
Tailor the missile barrage to the target's current shield/hull but add 15 % based on it's max shield/hull to account for defenses.

The Race Response Fleet missile boats have a completely separate logic and fire a fixed number of missiles, only depending on the target's class.
An M2 will get 18 Tomahawks, whether it's undamaged or has only 1 hull point left.

Snap 4-6 of these missile spammer targeting the same ennemy and do some maths thats a bit overkill eh.

[Ebenezer]

Spoiler

Show

AI ain't so stupid now

That may count for missile ships but I did not recognize that with large ships M7,M2,M1. Still there is no AI turret configuration. In the scripted wars the result is, that both sides waste half of their time trying to kill those little M3-M5 with there anti ship weapons. Ugly to see that

Can you or anyone else explain exactly how you did that please?

[Gazz]

Snap 4-6 of these missile spammer targeting the same ennemy and do some maths thats a bit overkill eh.

No.
You are apparently assuming that the scripts do not take that into account.

[Master of the Blade]

Remember the normal turret scripts work better too now - I've had an assassination target shoot down three swarms of Typhoons in a couple of seconds, and my Griffon can fairly comfortably fend off the missile attacks from two bombers. Ships with good turret coverage are extremely hard to hit with missiles now.

[Gazz]

Ahh, pity that the mere existence of turrets on a ship is no longer the sole defining factor in it's missile defense capability.
One might have to *gasp* THINK now!
Some ships are better suited for the "solo" role than others. One may actually need more than one ship to get the best of everything instead of one perfect supership. (My heart bleeds, it really does. Almost.)

[garv222]

Maybe we need a "Last Starfighter" Deathblossom for missle countermeasure...

It already exists. Ever see Deimos loaded with PSG? It's FPS stopping goodness.

[Triaxx2]

I am a firm believer in using M7M's and M8's. The rule of thumb is simple:

There is no overkill. There is only Open Fire, and Time To Reload.

[TerrorTrooper]

Personally, I really like the new missile scripts the AI uses.
X3:R and X3:TC were just disappointingly easy in terms of combat.
In TC once you got your hands on a Panther, you were litterally lord and master of the universe. It was boring!!!

AP forces me to choose my fights very carefully and keep a close eye on what goes on around me. This can only be an improvement in my oppinion.
Even bombers can be deadly if not treated with a little respectful caution.

I haven't felt this anxious about getting into a fight since running from my first Xenon L in XBTF.