hey all, 1st post here,
was doing some argon mission on albion, had a wing of my nova, discoverer both protecting my centaur.
after some combat i turned about 180 degreas and my discoverer runs into me and dies.
anything to prevent this?
cheers
suicidal wingmen
Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum
Yeah - don't use wingmen 
The autopilot and AI in X3 have some limitations. Personally I really do never use wingmen for just that reason, but I have to admit I've not actually got round to playing X3AP yet...
Tim
The autopilot and AI in X3 have some limitations. Personally I really do never use wingmen for just that reason, but I have to admit I've not actually got round to playing X3AP yet...
Tim
Struggling to find something from the forums - Google it!!! 
Anything to prevent it?
Well, in X3TC, the answer would be "Not really." Wingman pathfinding and collision avoidance is not a concept they really understand very well. In X3TC, I don't use Wingmen. I simply order a ship to "Protect Me" as necessary and never tell a ship to "Follow Me" because of difficult pathfinding problems. The "Wingman" command has always presented a few problems to players, it seems.
I had the same problem when I first started X3, so I can sympathize. But, it's really not a huge issue to worry about, IMO. Just take some extra care, don't use SETA in crowded areas that have many of your ships, avoid getting too close to asteroids when you have your own ships following you, etc..
Well, in X3TC, the answer would be "Not really." Wingman pathfinding and collision avoidance is not a concept they really understand very well.
In X3TC, I don't use Wingmen. I simply order a ship to "Protect Me" as necessary and never tell a ship to "Follow Me" because of difficult pathfinding problems. The "Wingman" command has always presented a few problems to players, it seems.I had the same problem when I first started X3, so I can sympathize. But, it's really not a huge issue to worry about, IMO. Just take some extra care, don't use SETA in crowded areas that have many of your ships, avoid getting too close to asteroids when you have your own ships following you, etc..
dont have ships all set to follow you, dont use fast ships and dont use wings.
have a wingman(configureable somewhere in the ship command menu, look down) which you can control via hotkeys (protect me / attack target) around and daisy chain from there.
example:
your ship
your wingman
3 - 4 ships with a protect / attack closest of order on the wingman
3 - 4 ships with a protect / attack closest of on the first set of mooks
etc
etc
this way not everyone is trying to cram into a little space around you.
have a wingman(configureable somewhere in the ship command menu, look down) which you can control via hotkeys (protect me / attack target) around and daisy chain from there.
example:
your ship
your wingman
3 - 4 ships with a protect / attack closest of order on the wingman
3 - 4 ships with a protect / attack closest of on the first set of mooks
etc
etc
this way not everyone is trying to cram into a little space around you.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.
You can try litcubes bounce mod or the cheat scripts package has a turn collisions off option.
bounce mod
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=3504935
cheat scripts
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=216691
bounce mod
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=3504935
cheat scripts
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=216691
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Threesixtyci
- Posts: 1404
- Joined: Fri, 24. Oct 08, 02:57
It's more like X3:TC's AI has some limitations. Reunion wasn't as problematic. Main annoyance with Reunion is that wingmen won't use jump drives unless you tell them to individually. And they won't refill their own energy cells. And for all games, it's a complete risk to dock while wingmen are tailing you.perkint wrote:Yeah - don't use wingmen
The autopilot and AI in X3 have some limitations. Personally I really do never use wingmen for just that reason, but I have to admit I've not actually got round to playing X3AP yet...
Tim
So, yeah. It's best to avoid wingmen and use fighter drones instead. Of course, what sux about drones is you have to tell them to stop then pick them back up manually.
I'm going to go and support the idea of using wingmen. You just have to accept their limitations and take responsibility for everything they do.
When you're setting up wingmen, make sure to give them the right ships; what's good for the player isn't always good for the AI (it almost never is). The AI can't process complex evasion routines like the player (their inability to strafe is a big part of this). They will get hit. A lot. They need as much shielding as you can muster to absorb damage, high maneuverability (turn rate + acceleration) to avoid collisions and track targets, and enough speed to keep up with whatever they're following. The last part is important, as you want your wingmen to be fast enough to be effective, but not so fast that they crash into things on a regular basis.
For weapons, accuracy and efficiency are key. Don't bother giving AI ships heavy weapons, as they don't manage their laser energy at all and they don't understand the difference between "maximum range" and "effective range." Only mount weapons that are fast and accurate, or that their laser generators can support for long periods of time. That means M3s get MDs, EBCs, PACs, PRGs, and the like. The first two are phenomenal for obvious reasons.
If you're going to dock at a station, make sure you give them their own docking orders or they're going to ride your coattails into the clamps and mess up the entire procedure. The same goes for gates.
When you're flying around make sure you organize their formations in a way that minimizes collisions (see Catra's post). Better yet, let them sit around somewhere with jump drives and plenty of fuel, then call them in when you need extra firepower.
If you're in a fight, make sure to issue specific attack orders as often as possible. The AI isn't very good at recognizing fights it can't win, so you need to make sure your ships don't get in over their heads.
Finally, make sure you set up a thorough resupply system. There's nothing more frustrating than jumping into a fight and realizing you left half of your flotilla behind because they never got refueled.
I know I'm making this sound like a lot of work. Because it is. But if you're one of those people who just loves the idea of commanding your own force rather than doing everything yourself then it's very satisfying.
When you're setting up wingmen, make sure to give them the right ships; what's good for the player isn't always good for the AI (it almost never is). The AI can't process complex evasion routines like the player (their inability to strafe is a big part of this). They will get hit. A lot. They need as much shielding as you can muster to absorb damage, high maneuverability (turn rate + acceleration) to avoid collisions and track targets, and enough speed to keep up with whatever they're following. The last part is important, as you want your wingmen to be fast enough to be effective, but not so fast that they crash into things on a regular basis.
For weapons, accuracy and efficiency are key. Don't bother giving AI ships heavy weapons, as they don't manage their laser energy at all and they don't understand the difference between "maximum range" and "effective range." Only mount weapons that are fast and accurate, or that their laser generators can support for long periods of time. That means M3s get MDs, EBCs, PACs, PRGs, and the like. The first two are phenomenal for obvious reasons.
If you're going to dock at a station, make sure you give them their own docking orders or they're going to ride your coattails into the clamps and mess up the entire procedure. The same goes for gates.
When you're flying around make sure you organize their formations in a way that minimizes collisions (see Catra's post). Better yet, let them sit around somewhere with jump drives and plenty of fuel, then call them in when you need extra firepower.
If you're in a fight, make sure to issue specific attack orders as often as possible. The AI isn't very good at recognizing fights it can't win, so you need to make sure your ships don't get in over their heads.
Finally, make sure you set up a thorough resupply system. There's nothing more frustrating than jumping into a fight and realizing you left half of your flotilla behind because they never got refueled.
I know I'm making this sound like a lot of work. Because it is. But if you're one of those people who just loves the idea of commanding your own force rather than doing everything yourself then it's very satisfying.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in figuring out how to make it worse.
I don't understand the point of having dedicated Wingmen. What's the use? Do they get special commands? Do they become separate "Pilots?" My entire fleet is my "Wingman." If I need some, I order them up. If I need something bigger, I order that up, too. TMs are great to have on "Ready 5" with a small reaction force. Jump in the TM and launch the fighters.KloHunt3r wrote:...I know I'm making this sound like a lot of work. Because it is. But if you're one of those people who just loves the idea of commanding your own force rather than doing everything yourself then it's very satisfying.
By far, the biggest problem is supply and e-cells. That goes for any ship that the player wants to control remotely, without using a CLS/CAG/Trader script. Even assigning CLS pilots to refuel ships is cumbersome and inefficient when dealing with ships like fighters that have to be refueled often. (A couple of large hold TMs with fighters and refuelers would work, for awhile, under constant use.)
Wingmen are just a nuisance, IMO. Now, if I was determined to fly around in an M3 for most of a heavy combat style game, my opinion would probably differ somewhat.
wingmen get 2 hotkeys that lets you order them around from the keyboard instead of having to go into the ship console.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.
OK. So, go through all the travails of refueling and resupplying Wingmen, not to mention washing off asteroids they've managed to paste themselves all over, just so I can have two hotkeys?Catra wrote:wingmen get 2 hotkeys that lets you order them around from the keyboard instead of having to go into the ship console.
...
Yip.
I think I will pass on that.