[X3AP] M7 weapons

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ConCorDian
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[X3AP] M7 weapons

Post by ConCorDian » Thu, 5. Jan 12, 19:35

as has been said on the forum before the game is badly in need of some M7 weapon systems. yes i know we can fit IBL's to a lot of them, but dont you think we should have new ones brought in specifically targetting M7's for fitting. my thoughs were:

Terran Fusion Beam Cannon
Range: 5750
Shield: 75000
Hull : 10000

kind of exists in game already but never really used, like all terran weapons it will be a bit more powerful than most and would be a continuous beam weapon for the M7 and M1 class primarily and would be forward mountable instead of on the M7's Turrets

Argon Phased Array Laser Cannon
Range: 4750
Shield: 45000
Hull : 7750

another continuous beam weapon that already exists and would be the commonwealth "all rounder" available to all commonwealth races as a standard M7 M1 class forward heavy weapon

Boron Ion Beam Canon
Range: 4250
Shield: 60000
Hull : 2000

like all of the better Boron weapons it will be largly targetting the shields and doing less hull damage and available to all bar maybe the split and Paranid (the usual)

Paranid Energy Mine
Range: 4600
Shield: 40000
Hull : 6500

firing a large energy mine that detonates within range of the target but that does area damage as a secondary effect a bit like the Flak weapons and available to all bar perhaps the Boron and Argon

Split Heavy Railgun
Range: 4500
Shield: 4000
Hull : 900

a rapid firing railgun that does heavy accumulative damage (firing about 10x the speed of others) rather than high impact damage and available to all bar perhaps the Boron

All weapons will be pushed towards giving the M7 Cruiser and M1 Carrier something for forward attacking punch but perhaps limit their number by only allowing something like 4 forward slots the ability to take them and (you may not like the idea but remove the ability for M7's to load IBL's since its supposed to be a Pirate PPC more or less)

obviously we would want the ability to build the Factories and produce them ourselves. and there is also the way you load out the ships that could mix things up. such as the Tiger having only 8 forward firing M7 weapons, Cerberus having 4 forward firing and 2 each side, you get the idea. just to mix up our battle fleets and give the M7 its true place. plus it would be cool if ALL M2's could fit a mix of them just to give varations to our destroyer attacks

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Post by Bobucles » Thu, 5. Jan 12, 21:47

Shield: 75000
Hull : 10000
You have to be really careful with this. Missiles are fixed to only deal the same amount of shield and hull damage. This means that health values have to be centered around missiles FIRST. What you are looking at here is that missile weapons automatically deal 7 times more hull damage than energy weapons! Or 7 times less, depending on how you look at it. It's generally a bad idea to have very large damage multipliers like that.

It's pretty difficult to add weapons to the game. There are a limited number of weapon ID slots, and they're all taken. The same weapon IDs would have to be overloaded with multiple weapons. You can do this partially by giving each weapon a different cargo class. For example the Terran Springblossom has XL cargo, which lets it use the XL sized P-SSC.

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Post by kurush » Thu, 5. Jan 12, 23:00

PALC is actually a split weapon. Argon have PBC which is similar and installed on most laser towers. One thing we do need is a way to obtain them in AP. In TC there were a couple of PALCs available. I read some rumors here that they do get generated on the race ships occasionally but never saw it myself.

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Re: [X3AP] M7 weapons

Post by Alith-Ahnar » Fri, 6. Jan 12, 00:54

ConCorDian wrote:as has been said on the forum before the game is badly in need of some M7 weapon systems.
There where several weapons more or less restricted to M7 class ships mainly Beam typ weapons in X³:TC but except for the Split PALC (limited stock) you could not get em without scripting (cheating).

It is a total mystery why those weapons got removed from the X³:AP ship weapons list alltogether ecxept again the PALC.

weirdest thing about it is they are still theoretical in the game and there are actual factories to produce those setup in the game code.

As a side note non kyon emitter beam weapons (Khaak) that where not used on a player controlled ship could cause massiv issues causing a dramatic drop in fps maybe that's why they striped 'em.
X2: You better go play with asteroids!/You losssssee profitsssss!
X4: Chelt are better pilot then you!/Machine behave badly Split switch off.

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ConCorDian
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Post by ConCorDian » Fri, 6. Jan 12, 01:53

Bobucles wrote:You have to be really careful with this. Missiles are fixed to only deal the same amount of shield and hull damage. This means that health values have to be centered around missiles FIRST. What you are looking at here is that missile weapons automatically deal 7 times more hull damage than energy weapons! Or 7 times less, depending on how you look at it. It's generally a bad idea to have very large damage multipliers like that.
the numbers are theoretical, if you look at the tables showing the current weapons such as the PPC IBL IC and so on what im doing is litteraly taking something off the top so that a destroyer is still the true heavy brawler but it gives the M7's enough punch to still hurt.
Bobucles wrote:It's pretty difficult to add weapons to the game. There are a limited number of weapon ID slots, and they're all taken. The same weapon IDs would have to be overloaded with multiple weapons.
thing is there are a few simple work arounds (i know simple is a matter of prespective but you know what i mean) as i said before there are already other weapons not used. such as the FBC, TBC etc. that could be used for "reworking" the PALC is still kind of unavailable ingame (even before it was more or less a treat so even that could be revamped) so im not suggesting we make life difficult by adding completly new files, im suggesting we make full use of all the slots thats already there.
kurush wrote:PALC is actually a split weapon. Argon have PBC which is similar and installed on most laser towers. One thing we do need is a way to obtain them in AP. In TC there were a couple of PALCs available. I read some rumors here that they do get generated on the race ships occasionally but never saw it myself.
1. i know the PALC was/is a split weapon, only thing was in my minds eye i saw them more with a sort of M7 grade railgun rather than a beam weapon. almost like the disruptors the Centauri use in Babylon 5.

2. the reason i didn't use the PBC was because of its use on LT's, it would be difficult to work them around for M7 grade shipboard use and keep the LT's balanced. so i kind of left that as a universal "light" beam weapon.

3. i'm one of the people who have claimed to have seen beam weapons used (it was im TC though and not AP). it happened in Argon Prime for me and it was a Cerberus thats fired a pair of PBC's from its side turret. thing was it was in the process of firing the damned things and when i scanned it they never showed up!! i should have took a screen shot just to prove it because i was as good as labelled a lier for saying it. its only ever happened the once in god knows how many hours in total ive played TC and i was quite disappointed because i already had my tiger's fitted out with PALC's (cloning trick) and i was seriously considering capping the Cerberus in question so i could clone the PBC's for my fleet of cerberus. ive put it down to a quick glitch somewhere in a script.

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Post by kurush » Fri, 6. Jan 12, 01:58

I don't believe PBC was in vanilla TC. I wrote a script once that scanned all ships in the universe for PALC, PBC and other rare wares and the only ship it returned was my panther. In any case, just making those weapons available would be a significant step forward. The factories for PALC were broken in TC (producing delexian wheat) and I doubt they got fixed.

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Post by ConCorDian » Fri, 6. Jan 12, 02:02

seeing these weapons getting fixed would be great, i just think it would be even better if they killed two birds with one stone and perhaps beefed them up so they could act as a proper M7 weapon class

also should that script not have therefore shown the PBC's fitted to the LT's existing in your game?

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Post by Catra » Fri, 6. Jan 12, 02:38

eh, i think its fine as is:

the Split / Argon / Terrans are supposed to be flak boats, and frontal ISR / IPG / MAML is pretty good as is.

the boron dont really need their own m7 weapon, since their M7 can use PPC / IC anyway, plus with the short range it wouldnt be able to be the capital ship killer that it is.

the paranid...kinda sounds redundant.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.

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Post by kurush » Fri, 6. Jan 12, 03:21

ConCorDian wrote:seeing these weapons getting fixed would be great, i just think it would be even better if they killed two birds with one stone and perhaps beefed them up so they could act as a proper M7 weapon class

also should that script not have therefore shown the PBC's fitted to the LT's existing in your game?
The script was going through ships only and ignoring laser towers. PBC is fairly well balanced - I added it to my AP game and it does half of shield damage of IBL. Being an insta-hit weapon, it doesn't really need any further beefing.

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