[X3TC] AAR - Thresher Vs Large P Patrol

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[X3TC] AAR - Thresher Vs Large P Patrol

Post by Morkonan » Thu, 12. Jan 12, 13:16

After Action Report - Thresher Vs Large P Patrol in Treasure Chest

So, I decided to take some advice in regards to a very good OOS defender - the M7 Boron Thresher. I had a factory in a far off sector that was starting to be a constant "Meeting Engagement" area with Pirates. Everything just seemed to escalate. My Heavy Centaur and 10-12 Nova Raiders (HEPTS) weren't cutting it. Sure, the Pirate patrols, consisting mainly of M3s and a few M4s, would go down, but not without taking a couple of fighters or giving the Heavy Centaur, with a decent loadout, a black eye and a trip to the Shipyard for repairs. So, in a thread I can't find right now, someone recommended the Thresher to me. Thank you, anonymous muse, you have brought me much joy. But, unexpectedly..

I was busy building a complex, so didn't have the chance to go peek at my Thresher as various craft were working on supplying it with some tasty armaments. PPCs up front, except for two Ion Cannons to shake hands with, sort of like a nice opening gesture, you understand. Flak Artillery Arrays all around with a few HEPTs here and there for funsies. (I just wanted to see how they'd work out, later. I know, range etc..)

Taking the opportunity to go see my new purchase after it was all doo-dadded up, I jumped over and transported into the cockpit. Very nice, spacious even... Now, the thing turns like someone nailed its ass to the floor, but it responds pretty quick. Keeping the pivot point in mind, I tooled around a bit and let loose with a few shots to test its generator. Not bad, really. But, I knew that with the Flak Arrays pounding away in real combat, there'd be a bit more juice getting thrown out the window. So, I was worried about power consumption. I was also worried about the frontal weapon configuration. The Thresher's frontal gun mounts mean that its best bet is to simply run over the target at very close range - At very close range, the shots are too widely spaced to get full effect on anything less than a flying-barn with a football stadium taped to it.

While I was musing on different tactics and watching PPC shots disappear in the distance, an alert came through from Treasure Chest, one of the sectors on a main Xenon migration route. Yup, it was a P Patrol, a fairly large one, at that. Lots of L's, at least one LX, several M's and only a few N's. To top it off, there weren't any regular military in the sector... and I was in a brand new M7 with the paint barely dry. Well, there's field testing and then there's combat testing.. I figured now was as good a time as any and I had plenty of Salvage Insurance to make some runs and clear the guns to see how she would handle a real fight.

Keep in mind - I'm still a relative noob when it comes down to piloting bigger ships than my Vidar. Sure, I read the forums and everything else I can find - But, I haven't experienced it. So, coming from a guy who sits in a Vidar cockpit all day, this shouldn't be surprising. I fully expected to take the P down and weather a few minutes until my energy ran out and I was looking at the opening menu screen again.. courtesy of a horde of upset fighters.

I entered in the West gate, to give myself some time to get a good angle of attack on the group. P and company were tearing up the shipping lanes, not even bother to sort through loot. (They didn't stop to loot the dog.. (WoW reference)) But, there wasn't going to be enough targets to draw their fire by the time I got there. There wouldn't be any chance to catch them distracted. Oh well, I dropped a few notches on my guns, reappraising my life expectancy by a few seconds less.

The P Patrol had decided, as Xenon Migrations are want to do, to simply head for the West Jumpgate, instead of coming up to meet me. I was in luck! At least, figuratively so. I could at least be assured of getting range on a few of the fighters and probably making it through the P's firestorm on my first run. It would go down, but the fighters were going to chew me a knew one, or so I thought.

As I barreled down from 10 km topside of the patrol, the P and its friends started to react, climbing to meet me. I figured it was a bit foolhardy and, though I was sure I wasn't going to survive, neither would the first targets under my crosshairs. You just don't charge into angry PPCs... It's in the rules, somewhere. Xenon, for all their vaunted AI, just aren't too bright.

I closed to five klicks, to give my Ion Cannons range, and then opened up on the P. It's darn maneuverable, I have to give it that. In a Vidar, one to one, it's not a bad contest. The Vidar turns on a dime and packs a good punch. But, my experience with Ps thus far had been limited to maneuvering for shots on their escorting fighters before closing, and usually with a little help from targets that distracted them or, at least, an Argon Centaur or two that had made a brave stand and cleared a few of them out before I got there. One on one, a P isn't a match for me in my Vidar. But, being accompanied by a swarm of M3s, it's not always that easy to take down.

The P banked hard to my Port side and slid right in between my widely spaced PPC shots, slapping the Thresher in the face with a full load of . But, I got a nice glancing blow from one of the Ion Cannons. FWIP!, his shield level reported on my display looked like someone took an eraser to it... Ignoring my lucky shot, I rolled, pitched up (The lead piano in the thresher's aft cargo hold helps with that.) and let loose with another volley, slamming a combined eight PPC shots and two Ion Cannon bursts right into his keel. He ceased to exist in this Universe... Gone. Obliterated. He exploded in a splash of fire and silicon bits. The last thing I saw of him were a couple of LEDs and what looked like the back of an old TI-35 calculator flying off into the sunset. Oh.. my..

But, his friends were still around. Betty was screaming something about missiles and new targets while I stared at the expanding cloud of what was left of the P. I checked my shields, figuring that it was time to start the clock and get my affairs in order. I wondered how many would show up to my funeral, besides the current flock of Xenon.

But, my shields were fine. Three gigajoules of shielding goes a long way, it seems. At eighty-seven percent, not only were they holding, they were climbing! Ls, LXs, Ms and Ns kept plinking away, occasionally popping off insulting missiles, but they hadn't even mussed up the window decal from the Shipyard. Right there and then, I grew a few inches..

I lined up an L and let loose. A few percent power drop and a couple of grazing PPC shots turned him into spare parts. But, the Thresher isn't a dogfighter. For that, I bought Flak Artillery Arrays. It was time to see how they were doing.

Instead of jumping into a turret while flying through an asteroid field, I switched to a third-person view and lined up my topside Flak on the main group of fighters. Boom boom.. out went their little lights. My shields were shrugging off everything they could throw at me and the flak was swatting them down as soon as I could bring it to bear on them. I spent another minute or two, in third-person, maneuvering my ship so the guys in the turrets had good shots at them. I really wanted to hang out the window and hit them with my sword.. But, I stayed buttoned up in the cockpit.

After a good thrashing of Flak and not just a few hopeful HEPT rounds coming out of shared turrets, they turned tail and ran. I pursued them for awhile, popping off a few shots, here and there, for fun. But, worried about my combat rank, I checked it and saw that it had climbed another ten percent through Militant. Not wanting to get any higher, I withdrew from pursuit and watched as the last Xenon limped through the Black Hole Sun Jump Gate. I wished the Argon luck with them and called in my Salvage Team to pick up whatever bits and pieces were left useable in the battle-space.

Much to my surprise, aside from more Banshee missiles than I thought it was possible to stock, two Ms had decided to bail on me! There, sitting pretty, were my first two Xenon bails! I suppose watching their precious P get extincted from a full frontal of PPC fire and then getting swatted around by Flak was a bit too much for their over-taxed circuitry. I commandeered the Ms and sent them off to the Omicron Lyrae shipyard for repairs.

Halfway through the salvage process, while I was still tapping the glass in disbelief at 100% readings on my shield, power and hull meters, an Argon Centaur patrol showed up, a bit disappointed that there wasn't anything left to shoot at..

I had gone into the battle knowing that I was going to eventually get taken down. But, the superb fighting capability of the Thresher had been lost on me, having just been able to see a bunch of numbers and pretty lights, beforehand. In a fight like I had, where there wasn't much use in continuing to empty round after round of PPC fire, the Thresher's generators were more than adequate to power every Flak Array as I rolled and let them do their job. I could have taken a more active roll in lining up a few fighters or shooting into the furball, hoping to slap a few down. But, what was the point of that? I needed the practice using Flak Arrays and the Xenon were more than willing to oblige me, for awhile.

Thanks to the guy that recommended the Thresher to me for OOS defense duties. But, I think I'm going to keep this one IS for now. That factory will just have to wait while I kit out another one. :D

(Post a reply, Mr Inspiration, so I can thank you properly. ;) )

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Post by Falcrack » Thu, 12. Jan 12, 16:21

I like the Thresher. A lot of folks keep saying "get the Split Tiger, its soooo keewl" (not mentioning that the only way to make it live up to its potential is to go through the extremely complicated and difficult process of obtaining IBLs for it), but I like the massive amount of forward firepower that the Thresher has, as opposed to having all its big firepower in turrets. The turrets do an excellent job eliminating fighters, but for the big stuff, I just aim and shoot. Also, it is so much easier to outfit, as you can simply purchase the weapons directly rather than needing to obtain IBLs from either boarding capital ships or snuggling up to the pirates.

The only problem is, as some will say, the Thresher has a bit less laser energy than other M7s, meaning less time firing those PPC and Ion Cannon batteries. But if you can make those first few volleys count, you can deal a horrednous amount of damage very quickly.

I would only use the Thresher in sector as my personal ship, as the AI controlling the Thresher is likely not to be able to use its powerful forward battery effectively, while I as a player can. OOS though, they are great for patrols.

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Post by Master of the Blade » Thu, 12. Jan 12, 19:23

Quick tip here: The Thresher's weapon battery isn't that great, particularly for a ship with a 10 cannon frontal array plus flak. Every point of energy is precious, so use the turret toggle hotkey in the bonus pack to switch off your turrets and save energy while you take out larger threats from range, like Xenon Qs or even Ks and Js. Fighters can't hurt you much so you need all your power for killing the big guys. Then switch the turrets back on and let them swat the flies. :wink:


TL;DR: Thresher can't cope with turrets+main cannons. Switch off the turrets using Bonus Pack script when you're firing the main array.


If you've not got the BP I highly reccommend it. If you already do have it, you go into the game options and select controls. Look around in the menus for something like, 'turret toggle hotkey' and assign it. It's awesome.
Last edited by Master of the Blade on Thu, 12. Jan 12, 21:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by A5PECT » Thu, 12. Jan 12, 19:45

Falcrack wrote:I would only use the Thresher in sector as my personal ship, as the AI controlling the Thresher is likely not to be able to use its powerful forward battery effectively, while I as a player can.
I've never used the Thresher much, but I'm very interested in making ships as AI-compatible as possible.

What if you tried halving the Thresher's forward gun count? It seems to work well for AI-controlled fighters.

Maybe if you only installed 4 PPCs up front it could save a lot of energy but still deal a lot of damage to capital-sized targets. It might make a good AI-controlled counter-frigate, or even fire support for a personal destroyer.

A pair of Threshers escorting a player-flown destroyer would give you a whole lot of anti-capital firepower.
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Post by Triaxx2 » Thu, 12. Jan 12, 23:51

Yeah, the Thresher is an amazing ship, heavy forward firepower, and an alpha strike that's unmatched. Particularly against capital targets, a charged blast from the entire forward battery is more than enough to destroy any other M7 in a single shot.
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Post by Morkonan » Fri, 13. Jan 12, 00:04

Master of the Blade wrote:.. Every point of energy is precious, so use the turret toggle hotkey in the bonus pack to switch off your turrets and save energy while you take out larger threats from range...
Good idea. I didn't even know there was such a hotkey in the Bonus Pack.
TL;DR: Thresher can't cope with turrets+main cannons. Switch off the turrets using Bonus Pack script when you're firing the main array.
I understand. Reading isn't something many people do much of, anymore. ("TLDR" is so .. well, juvenile, sorry for saying. It's an ARR. I do appreciate your commentary, but nobody tried to make you read it.)

I had no problems with my weapon energy. However, I did not use the front guns like a Fighter. But, I also did not give those guns a lot of targets. When I fired, it was short controlled bursts on targets I knew I could hit. I let the turrets take care of the fighters, since they were no threat. However, in a situation where there were several capitals bearing down on me, I could see where the Thresher would have issues if I spammed full frontal fire.
If you've not got the BP I highly reccommend it. If you already do have it, you go into the game options and select controls. Look around in the menus for something like, 'turret toggle hotkey' and assign it. It's awesome.
I definitely will! I wasn't aware of the hotkey, so it will surely come in handy. There have been plenty of times I would have gotten good bails if it weren't for my turrets. That hotkey will help me quickly tell them to shut up. Thanks again!

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Post by Morkonan » Fri, 13. Jan 12, 00:10

KloHunt3r wrote:
Falcrack wrote:...I've never used the Thresher much, but I'm very interested in making ships as AI-compatible as possible.

What if you tried halving the Thresher's forward gun count? It seems to work well for AI-controlled fighters.

Maybe if you only installed 4 PPCs up front it could save a lot of energy but still deal a lot of damage to capital-sized targets. It might make a good AI-controlled counter-frigate, or even fire support for a personal destroyer.

A pair of Threshers escorting a player-flown destroyer would give you a whole lot of anti-capital firepower.
As was said above, if I wanted the Thresher IS, as it stands right now, I would fly it and wouldn't want the AI to have to deal with rationing energy due to frontal fire spam or trying to draw down with the front guns on a target. Halving the front guns might help, though. It would probably help to jump it into an IS combat sector where it had a good chance of getting itself pointed straight at the target for the front PPC shots. Putting EBCs in some of the turret slots might also help for IS combat capabilities.

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Post by Master of the Blade » Fri, 13. Jan 12, 01:23

Morkonan wrote:I understand. Reading isn't something many people do much of, anymore. ("TLDR" is so .. well, juvenile, sorry for saying. It's an ARR. I do appreciate your commentary, but nobody tried to make you read it
No, if I had my way there'd be no way for TLDR to exist in the first place. It's just I tend to ramble and there are more likely than not people who don't want to read me rambling. :wink:
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Post by Morkonan » Fri, 13. Jan 12, 01:32

Master of the Blade wrote:No, if I had my way there'd be no way for TLDR to exist in the first place. It's just I tend to ramble and there are more likely than not people who don't want to read me rambling. :wink:
Tell ya what.. If you take the time to post an AAR, I'll take the time to read it. :D But, that's only because I like to read AARs. (And, I feel bad for calling out your "TLDR.")

I do get your point, though. Still, I've seen TLDR posts here for something as small as a complete sentence... No wonder Twitter is so full of twits! ;)

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Post by Master of the Blade » Fri, 13. Jan 12, 01:41

([shameless plug])Go look at the creative forum. I've done two DiDs, and have one on hiatus(tm) until the XRM comes out for AP. Look for 'Of Journeys into the Unknown, Smelling Faintly of Fish' and 'A Robbery Never to be Forgotten' for the finished ones. (/shameless plug) AAR enough for you? :P You were sort of justified though. I only put two lines. It looks so much longer in the box! :lol:


Anyway, going OffTopic. So, in the halfhearted spirit of ontopicery I will say this of the Thresher: You will fight frigates, probably even destroyers. You are a very large, relatively weak target. Do everything you can to stay over 5km away from bigger ships or they'll get accurate.
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Post by Morkonan » Fri, 13. Jan 12, 01:49

Master of the Blade wrote:([shameless plug])..
On my way! As soon as I grab some dinner, that is...

I don't plan on taking on the galaxy with my Thresher, but the power it had to completely obliterate a very large P patrol by itself, without even worrying about getting scratched or even running low on juice, was pretty darn amazing, since the Vidar has been the best ship I've flown since starting the game.

Still love the Vidar, though. I'll be piloting it for awhile, yet. But, I do plan on taking that Thresher in for the next Q patrol I can find, just to do some proper testing.

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Post by Progress-M » Fri, 13. Jan 12, 01:57

Thresher was my first M7 back in the day...I just liked it's looks and the name.

I found it most effective as a boom and zoom-craft, a loaded alpha strike, pull up and around, wait for weapon energy to recover, pull back around, rinse and repeat...most capitals can't keep up with the boron craft so it's possible to stay at stand off range.

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Post by Raize » Fri, 13. Jan 12, 14:59

ITT: Bragging about killing a little P in a M7 with ten times the shielding and firepower.

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Post by Morkonan » Sat, 14. Jan 12, 01:26

Raize wrote:ITT: Bragging about killing a little P in a M7 with ten times the shielding and firepower.
No, not bragging at all. It was my first M7 in my first X game and I was pretty amazed at how easily it handled the entire P Patrol including its scores of fighter escorts, compared to the ships I had been used to piloting. Don't feel bad if you didn't understand that from reading my post above. It's likely that will be common and you will get used to it in time.

Do you remember what it felt like to pilot your first heavy ship and swat down ships and formations that had previously caused you so much grief? Well, there you go. That's why I wrote the AAR.

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