Cluster flak and Ion burst,

[Eleutherios]

Are they worth it? I cant seem to see if any of the AOE takes account if ships are in the range, and is it a range within a sphere or just a flat spread at max range...?

[A5PECT]

The AOE on Cluster Flak Arrays doesn't work properly. But the weapon still does high amounts of damage through direct-fire.

Ion Disruptor beams will jump between targets, so if you hit a ship 800m away from your ship, the beam can jump to another ship 1600m away (provided the first ship bridges the distance between your ships and the second ship).

Try using them both at the same time.

[Eleutherios]

I was refering to the ion burst generator when i said ion burst. I have used the ion disruptor, and have a couple that i tote from time to time, but i was wondering if the aoe on the ion burst generators followed suit with the flak cannons.

[A5PECT]

Are you talking about the Ion Pulse Generator or the Plasma Burst Generator?

Ion Pulse Generators are an M6-grade weapon that have a traditional projectile with no AOE.

Plasma Burst Generators are space flamethrowers that do have AOE, but their projectile is more comparable to that of a Phased Shockwave Generator.

[Eleutherios]

Ion pulse, Sorry!! I was under the impretion that at the end of their run they go out with a bang.

"A weapon usually found equipped by corvettes or frigate-sized ships. In addition to being effective against shields, the Ion Pulse Generator's projectiles give a violent ion burst on reaching maximum range. This can have an effect on ship engines, often causing a reduction in speed."

[A5PECT]

It's ok.

No, the IPG doesn't have any AOE. Each projectile hits a single target.

Also, the in-game description is somewhat misleading. IPGs cause ships to slow down on any impact, not necessarily at maximum range.

[infy dev]

The AOE on Cluster Flak Arrays doesn't work properly. But the weapon still does high amounts of damage through direct-fire.

I thought they'd fixed that AOE issue? regardless, CFAs are incredibly effective anti-fighter weapons, simply because they are very accurate & the projectile moves so fast; I have four top & bottom on my personal Boreas, and I don't think I've seen any enemy fighter require more than two or maybe three shots (M5s tend to die on the first shot).

(the reason I can't tell about the AOE being fixed is because the projectiles almost invariably strike the target, so never get a chance to explode.)

[A5PECT]

I thought they'd fixed that AOE issue?

When TC was first released there was a bug that caused CFAAs to not do any damage through direct fire. A patch was released that fixed it.

The AOE on Cluster Flaks always worked as intended. It's just that the way it works is utterly useless.

Each [CFAA] bullet creates 4 submunitions.

Each of those can collide with a target and do damage, most likely as much as the original bullet.

...
The submunitions expand in a cone, 1580m deep and 1400m wide at the base.
That's a sizable volume of 0.81 km^3.

If we assume that each submunition flying through that cone covers a cylinder with a 5m diameter (generous estimate for a fighter target) then each one covers a volume of 0.000031 km^3.
All 4 cover together cover 1.9 % of the cone's volume.
That's a generous estimate for your chance to hit a fighter target inside that huge cone because fighters are usually smaller than that.

[Eleutherios]

I thought they'd fixed that AOE issue?

When TC was first released CFAAs didn't do any damage through direct fire. A patch was released that fixed it.

The AOE on Cluster Flaks always worked as intended. It's just that the way it works is utterly useless.

Each [CFAA] bullet creates 4 submunitions.

Each of those can collide with a target and do damage, most likely as much as the original bullet.

...
The submunitions expand in a cone, 1580m deep and 1400m wide at the base.
That's a sizable volume of 0.81 km^3.

If we assume that each submunition flying through that cone covers a cylinder with a 5m diameter (generous estimate for a fighter target) then each one covers a volume of 0.000031 km^3.
All 4 cover together cover 1.9 % of the cone's volume.
That's a generous estimate for your chance to hit a fighter target inside that huge cone because fighters are usually smaller than that.

But assuming you have 10-15 shots off in a given area, that greatly increase the chance of an AOE hit, plus if you are using it on closing target which inclue M3-4-6-8 ships your chances increase due to the relative size of the targets, and the typical cluster formation of the targets before they reach any target area and peel off.

[A5PECT]

Except that those targets don't stay at the cluster munition's optimal range. Once the fighters get within 2km the probability for submunitions to hit is 0%. Farther than 2.5km the probability is 0%. Between those two ranges, the probability at best is 2%, and that number falls off the closer you get to 2.5km.

Let's say the average speed of a fighter is 150 m/s (the speed of a fully tuned Argon Nova), that means that a fighter closing on your ship will stay within the CFAA's optimal submunition range for about 3 seconds, during which the CFAA will be able to put out 3 shots.

That means the gun has less than a 5% chance to hit the fighter with a single submunition. Sure, you can increase those chances by loading multiple guns. But even if you're using eight CFAAs that's only a 20% chance for a submunition to make contact. So you're going to hit the target with a single submunition, and none of the primary munitions will hit because the enemy is outside of its 2km range.

So you have a 20% chance of doing 12.5% of the damage you'd be doing if you were just hitting the fighter with the CFAA's primary munitions.

About the size of targets, remember that Gazz's calculations are based on an overestimation of the size of fighters. Sure, maybe corvettes are a little more likely to be hit by a submunition. But in the end it's still much, much more effective to hit them with the primary CFAA projectile.

[infy dev]

to sum up: it's a "flak" weapon that is, in practice, a direct-fire weapon; the AOE effect exists in a nearly useless state, but on the other hand the gun itself tracks so fast (in my experience) that it is rarely an issue.

I imagine that paired with regular old FAAs or maybe Ion Disrupters it would make for an extremely effective multi-purpose defence, but a set of them on their own (like I have) are absolutely lethal against fighters - I'm not sure how effective they are against missiles, though.

[angry boron]

I'm not sure how effective they are against missiles, though.

They fire fast and rarely miss, so pretty good.

[Bobucles]

Each [CFAA] bullet creates 4 submunitions.

Each of those can collide with a target and do damage, most likely as much as the original bullet.

I've been playing around with this a bit. 20, 30... No matter what I do, they seem to fly through targets without dealing damage. You sure they work?