So this is the first time i have gone through with some actual combat instead of only doing a trade based game, and i am digging it. I have finally gotten used to > M5 ships and am getting the hang of letting missiles and turrets doing the fighter work.
Last night i picked up a Griffon sent. and i really dig it. i have HEPTS all around turrents on the front I have two CFA and am looking into a couple IPG's on the other two, and on the mians i have CIGs for larger ships.
My delemma comes now in what to fit out the 9 dockable ships... I am looking for a fighter squad a mix of M3/M4 but the M4 have only slightly better speed then me! and i am wondering if a mix of M3/M5 would be better for the fighter controls.
Initially i was thinking 4 Eurus and 5 Solono....
Or 4 Venti and 5 Disco raids...
Any thoughts?
[AP] M7 advise.
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Sir Warwick
- Posts: 366
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I have my personal kestrel and aamon in mine with 4 solanos and 3 ventiis for company - I think I have them all loaded up with mass drivers - venti with 10 MDs on the front is quite an efficient little killing machine 
As alternative to the Ventii - I might consider the notus hauler - less front guns, but more shielding and had one as a player fighter until I got the aamon.
Eurus - not tried and seems rather weak compared to the solano.
As alternative to the Ventii - I might consider the notus hauler - less front guns, but more shielding and had one as a player fighter until I got the aamon.
Eurus - not tried and seems rather weak compared to the solano.
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Eleutherios
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sat, 23. May 09, 10:21
It is, it just looks cool... and is fast.Sir Warwick wrote:I have my personal kestrel and aamon in mine with 4 solanos and 3 ventiis for company - I think I have them all loaded up with mass drivers - venti with 10 MDs on the front is quite an efficient little killing machine
As alternative to the Ventii - I might consider the notus hauler - less front guns, but more shielding and had one as a player fighter until I got the aamon.
Eurus - not tried and seems rather weak compared to the solano.
what about an M8 can you dock one in it? I was thinking split 4/4 with an M8 just now...
IPG main 1 ionD 1 CFA in the turrets that can hold that combo FAA where it cant.
just get all ventis, the notus isnt worth more to get less. =P
inb4 posts that have nothing to do with the OP.
just get all ventis, the notus isnt worth more to get less. =P
inb4 posts that have nothing to do with the OP.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.
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Xander Cade
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Thu, 21. Feb 08, 02:38
Forget the HEPTs, they really aren't doing you any good. If you have enough money, you should have enough of each Flak, CIG and IPG to fill every slot (EVERY slot) and set your turret commands up to use AoE weapons (or they will never mount the Flak). Keep the forward turret set to Attack My Target. Practice switching the weapons in your main battery and forward turret around because you will want a different combination of Flak/CIG/IPG for most situations (all IPG for capitals while the shields are up and then all CIG when the shields are down, for example).
Since it's your personal ship and it's bristling with Flak, don't use all of your socking dlots for a fighter wing, save at least one or two slots for capped fighters. You will also want one slot for a Falcon Hauler which you will use to Collect Wares and, occasionally, refuel you. Having a single M5 for recon and getting to stations quickly is also invaluable. My docked fighters are a Falcon Hauler, Kestrel and a combat wing of four Venti, fully loaded with EBC, giving me space for three cap's. All of the fighters have a Jumpdrive so that I have spares to give to any capped freighters (and capital ships caught by the Cobra that follows me around). The only fighters I have lost in combat so far have been to my own Flak, but that's probably because I rarely have a need to launch them.
Since it's your personal ship and it's bristling with Flak, don't use all of your socking dlots for a fighter wing, save at least one or two slots for capped fighters. You will also want one slot for a Falcon Hauler which you will use to Collect Wares and, occasionally, refuel you. Having a single M5 for recon and getting to stations quickly is also invaluable. My docked fighters are a Falcon Hauler, Kestrel and a combat wing of four Venti, fully loaded with EBC, giving me space for three cap's. All of the fighters have a Jumpdrive so that I have spares to give to any capped freighters (and capital ships caught by the Cobra that follows me around). The only fighters I have lost in combat so far have been to my own Flak, but that's probably because I rarely have a need to launch them.
Last edited by Xander Cade on Wed, 25. Jan 12, 16:31, edited 1 time in total.
"What he doesn't understand is that the Welsh are a subject people, put on Earth to do menial tasks for the English." - John Cleese
You can't dock an M8 in the Griffon.Eleutherios wrote:what about an M8 can you dock one in it? I was thinking split 4/4 with an M8 just now...
You can't dock a fighter in an M8.
Last edited by wRAR on Wed, 25. Jan 12, 16:57, edited 1 time in total.
I can solo most things in my griffon without missile spam. The sweet spots on carracks and Qs are easy to keep at and the 4gj shields are rather nice. There are some M2s that I can't handle but that's why you have missiles. ^_^
It's an excellent ship and if I ever get bored or need to take care of something and can't finish the fight after eliminating all the M6/M7/M8s then I just release a few hundred fighter drones and my 9 Notus Haulers. Out of sector they remove any M3-M5s that I've left behind without a problem.
Did I mention it has 4800 cargo space. Can you even comprehend how many fighter drones that is?
Enough to black out the sun.
It's an excellent ship and if I ever get bored or need to take care of something and can't finish the fight after eliminating all the M6/M7/M8s then I just release a few hundred fighter drones and my 9 Notus Haulers. Out of sector they remove any M3-M5s that I've left behind without a problem.
Did I mention it has 4800 cargo space. Can you even comprehend how many fighter drones that is?
Enough to black out the sun.
I'd honestly stick with the disposable drones rather than kitting out a bunch of fighters.
M5s are fragile and will die very quickly if someone decides to take an interest in them. They also tend to slam themselves directly into slower-moving targets because the AI doesn't have enough time to detect the immanent collision and correct course.
M4s are a bit better, but still have many of the same problems. They aren't especially durable (except for the Solano) and they need to keep their to speed down or face similar collision problems as the M5s.
M3's aren't too bad, being both slow enough for the AI to handle and well-shielded enough to survive a scrum. Unfortunately they represent a much larger investment in resources and it kind of sucks when one dies.
Mark 1 drones, on the other hand, are about as tough as M5's, cost 1/3 as much and you can deploy them in the dozens. The Griffon's numerous hangar bays mean that retrieving them isn't much of a hassle, either. It's not as cool as deploying a wing of lethal-looking fighters, but oh man is it fun. I feel a bit like the wicked witch deploying her winged monkeys.
M5s are fragile and will die very quickly if someone decides to take an interest in them. They also tend to slam themselves directly into slower-moving targets because the AI doesn't have enough time to detect the immanent collision and correct course.
M4s are a bit better, but still have many of the same problems. They aren't especially durable (except for the Solano) and they need to keep their to speed down or face similar collision problems as the M5s.
M3's aren't too bad, being both slow enough for the AI to handle and well-shielded enough to survive a scrum. Unfortunately they represent a much larger investment in resources and it kind of sucks when one dies.
Mark 1 drones, on the other hand, are about as tough as M5's, cost 1/3 as much and you can deploy them in the dozens. The Griffon's numerous hangar bays mean that retrieving them isn't much of a hassle, either. It's not as cool as deploying a wing of lethal-looking fighters, but oh man is it fun. I feel a bit like the wicked witch deploying her winged monkeys.
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Silverblade The Enchanter
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Tue, 24. May 05, 19:58
I use Eclipses (very tough and two turrets make a big difference)
and Ventis (yes with mass drivers and the ship's speed they can quickly slow down and thus eliminate most enemies!)
but it's very true the MKII drones are easier to work with, lol, as I HATE losing a ship I spent ages equipping.
Mistervec
"winged monkeys" hehe!!
and Ventis (yes with mass drivers and the ship's speed they can quickly slow down and thus eliminate most enemies!)
but it's very true the MKII drones are easier to work with, lol, as I HATE losing a ship I spent ages equipping.
Mistervec
"winged monkeys" hehe!!
M4+s, particularly the Solano and Asp, are a nice medium. They fly fast, hit hard, and have decent shielding. The best part is their hulls are under both under 800k credits each. A fully equipped one will cost around 1.5 to 2 million, and you can cut that price down by producing your own weapons and shields.mistervec wrote:M4s are a bit better, but still have many of the same problems. They aren't especially durable (except for the Solano) and they need to keep their to speed down or face similar collision problems as the M5s.
M3's aren't too bad, being both slow enough for the AI to handle and well-shielded enough to survive a scrum. Unfortunately they represent a much larger investment in resources and it kind of sucks when one dies.
Falcon Haulers are great because not only do they have outstanding shielding, they come in the standard M3 price range rather than M3+. Their large cargo bays can be filled with missiles and ammunition, making them light bombers of a sort. It still costs a bit of money if you lose one, but much less than something like an Eclipse or a Notus.
My favorite setup so far is a Griffon with six Solanos and three Falcon Haulers. The Solanos carry PRGs and Hurricanes and chase down fighters and corvettes, while the Falcon Haulers use EBCs and Tornado missiles to help the Griffon take out frigates, destroyers, and carriers.
I like fighter wings because they're easier to manage during combat and I can actually order them to engage multiple targets at once; you can't do that with drones and broadcast commands. However I do use Mk2 drones to cover the fighters when they go after flak-bearing capital ships.
I like to think of it as an alternative to fighting for less combat-oriented players. If a person isn't a skilled dogfighter, they can make up for it by spamming drones.Llama wrote:They are quite unbalanced I think.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in figuring out how to make it worse.
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Eleutherios
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sat, 23. May 09, 10:21
Probe1 wrote:I can solo most things in my griffon without missile spam. The sweet spots on carracks and Qs are easy to keep at and the 4gj shields are rather nice. There are some M2s that I can't handle but that's why you have missiles. ^_^
It's an excellent ship and if I ever get bored or need to take care of something and can't finish the fight after eliminating all the M6/M7/M8s then I just release a few hundred fighter drones and my 9 Notus Haulers. Out of sector they remove any M3-M5s that I've left behind without a problem.
Did I mention it has 4800 cargo space. Can you even comprehend how many fighter drones that is?
slightly on topic, what weapons rigging do you use on your boat?
Enough to black out the sun.
Here is my current strategy of fighting in my Griffon. This is in TC, but I guess it applies to AP as well :
In my Griffon, I have a wing of three Nova Raiders, another wing of three Spitfyres, and two kestrels.
I'm leaving a slot for drone recovery, as well as ship rescuing.
The kestrels: I use them as scouts and sector mappers, as well as asteroid analyzers. Two of them are very efficient at that.
The spitfyres: I use them as a fast interception team, against M5-M4 (and small number of M3), equipped with EEMPC. I also use one of them as a personnal ship when I need to dock at stations.
The Novas: The heavy demolition team, they supplement the spitfyre team in case of a large number of M3 opponents, or against a lone M6. They're equipped with a full complement of PBG, and ouch, they hurt.
I also use them as post-battle scavengers. I have noticed that their speed makes the process more efficient than with the faster ships, because the auto-pilot has trouble aiming at crates with 400+m/s ships (once, a spitfyre started to loop around a crate, and did that for a few minutes until I called it back....).
I also try to have 100mk1 + 100mk2 fighter drones at any time, (haven't tried the keris yet), they did save my butt a few times, like when I had to visit the pirate sectors after Maelstrom, and found myself surrounded by three Carracks plus many fighters.
I usually use CIGs as main guns, and IPGs in the front turret, because it has a nice coverage, and helps me to suppress shields of big ships (Q, Carrack...) while I'm straffing them and dealing damage with the remaining FAA turrets.
I will usually resort to typhoon missiles to deal hull damage once the shields are down.
I don't know how efficient typhoons are in AP, though, with the much improved hulls and all
To sum things up, this setup works wonders for me, enemy ships are falling very fast (even M7s), and I never found myself under 10% shields in the Griffon. I wouldn't recommend attacking M1 or M2 though, unless you have a number of Firestorm or hammerheads at your disposal
In my Griffon, I have a wing of three Nova Raiders, another wing of three Spitfyres, and two kestrels.
I'm leaving a slot for drone recovery, as well as ship rescuing.
The kestrels: I use them as scouts and sector mappers, as well as asteroid analyzers. Two of them are very efficient at that.
The spitfyres: I use them as a fast interception team, against M5-M4 (and small number of M3), equipped with EEMPC. I also use one of them as a personnal ship when I need to dock at stations.
The Novas: The heavy demolition team, they supplement the spitfyre team in case of a large number of M3 opponents, or against a lone M6. They're equipped with a full complement of PBG, and ouch, they hurt.
I also use them as post-battle scavengers. I have noticed that their speed makes the process more efficient than with the faster ships, because the auto-pilot has trouble aiming at crates with 400+m/s ships (once, a spitfyre started to loop around a crate, and did that for a few minutes until I called it back....).
I also try to have 100mk1 + 100mk2 fighter drones at any time, (haven't tried the keris yet), they did save my butt a few times, like when I had to visit the pirate sectors after Maelstrom, and found myself surrounded by three Carracks plus many fighters.
I usually use CIGs as main guns, and IPGs in the front turret, because it has a nice coverage, and helps me to suppress shields of big ships (Q, Carrack...) while I'm straffing them and dealing damage with the remaining FAA turrets.
I will usually resort to typhoon missiles to deal hull damage once the shields are down.
I don't know how efficient typhoons are in AP, though, with the much improved hulls and all
To sum things up, this setup works wonders for me, enemy ships are falling very fast (even M7s), and I never found myself under 10% shields in the Griffon. I wouldn't recommend attacking M1 or M2 though, unless you have a number of Firestorm or hammerheads at your disposal
1 Arrow
8 Notus Haulers.
They make fighting groups of fighters go by faster and just chill in my hanger when I'm messing with M8/M7s. Combined they'll take down a M6 just fine.
Of course I *Should* replace them with some bombers so I can fight capital ships but meh. I have my own capital ships and M8s for that!
8 Notus Haulers.
They make fighting groups of fighters go by faster and just chill in my hanger when I'm messing with M8/M7s. Combined they'll take down a M6 just fine.
Of course I *Should* replace them with some bombers so I can fight capital ships but meh. I have my own capital ships and M8s for that!
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Xander Cade
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Thu, 21. Feb 08, 02:38
Last I checked, the Arrow wasn't available in TC or AP, it's a special ship for the Reunion races.
You can't dock M8s on anything but the Kyoto in AP and the Aran in TC.
Turret behaviour alone makes equipping a Griffon in AP different to TC.
If it take 200 Drones and 6 fighters to take anything bigger than a M6 down in a Griffon you are doing something wrong. Maybe the Griffon's stat's are different in TC, but in AP three Carracks at one time is nothing to be concerned about.
You can't dock M8s on anything but the Kyoto in AP and the Aran in TC.
Turret behaviour alone makes equipping a Griffon in AP different to TC.
If it take 200 Drones and 6 fighters to take anything bigger than a M6 down in a Griffon you are doing something wrong. Maybe the Griffon's stat's are different in TC, but in AP three Carracks at one time is nothing to be concerned about.
"What he doesn't understand is that the Welsh are a subject people, put on Earth to do menial tasks for the English." - John Cleese
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Eleutherios
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sat, 23. May 09, 10:21
What i came up with so far lastnight,
Mains are CIGS top turrent CFA (will upgrade to FAA) top and bottom are FAA and rear is still HEPT (waiting on forge to make the FAA's) shipwise i have a octopus i bought for 23k @ 80% (not a bad deal i thought) my starting nova proto, an eclipse (for refueling) and a single soronto atm to see how it fares.
I finally tracked down a damnable 1g shield facility and have a hauler in route to pick up me shields to upgrade from the 200 MJ i have now. In the midst i have run a couple combat missions to get a feel for the griffon and i must say even with the low shields it holds up well against M6's with multiple m3/4 and some fighters about. the FAA's munition speed is insanely fast and the turrets track so well that fighters are actually LESS of a problem now than they were with the HEPTs.
Game wise i am trying to keep canon with the argon peace keeper and using only argon ships for the war effort, (OTAS included of course) and have been building up (ok manipulating the stock markets... ) my monetary backing to put a couple plexes together to aid my war effort before i get too into the plot.
On the Griffon topic though, i take it you cant use trade extension software/ the package that lets you remotely purchase (like i did in my skiron) with the griffon. (my terminology might be off let me elaborate. in the M6 i was able to trade with stations without docking. i could be mistaken and only been able to trade with shipyards...) but where abouts can i find a transporter for a refuleing barge? the only way i have been able to transfer large amounts of good is ship>follow me> eject cargo> grab can> go about your business.
Mains are CIGS top turrent CFA (will upgrade to FAA) top and bottom are FAA and rear is still HEPT (waiting on forge to make the FAA's) shipwise i have a octopus i bought for 23k @ 80% (not a bad deal i thought) my starting nova proto, an eclipse (for refueling) and a single soronto atm to see how it fares.
I finally tracked down a damnable 1g shield facility and have a hauler in route to pick up me shields to upgrade from the 200 MJ i have now. In the midst i have run a couple combat missions to get a feel for the griffon and i must say even with the low shields it holds up well against M6's with multiple m3/4 and some fighters about. the FAA's munition speed is insanely fast and the turrets track so well that fighters are actually LESS of a problem now than they were with the HEPTs.
Game wise i am trying to keep canon with the argon peace keeper and using only argon ships for the war effort, (OTAS included of course) and have been building up (ok manipulating the stock markets... ) my monetary backing to put a couple plexes together to aid my war effort before i get too into the plot.
On the Griffon topic though, i take it you cant use trade extension software/ the package that lets you remotely purchase (like i did in my skiron) with the griffon. (my terminology might be off let me elaborate. in the M6 i was able to trade with stations without docking. i could be mistaken and only been able to trade with shipyards...) but where abouts can i find a transporter for a refuleing barge? the only way i have been able to transfer large amounts of good is ship>follow me> eject cargo> grab can> go about your business.
Only shipyards. however you can also trade with stations where you have a ship docked by ordering that ship to do the trade by right clicking -> trade on the ship (done by using your assets window or by viewing landed ships at that station).Eleutherios wrote:On the Griffon topic though, i take it you cant use trade extension software/ the package that lets you remotely purchase (like i did in my skiron) with the griffon. (my terminology might be off let me elaborate. in the M6 i was able to trade with stations without docking. i could be mistaken and only been able to trade with shipyards...)
Terracorp HQ has them. Good news you can even dock a capital there (surprisingly I didn't realize this until recently).Eleutherios wrote:but where abouts can i find a transporter for a refuleing barge? the only way i have been able to transfer large amounts of good is ship>follow me> eject cargo> grab can> go about your business.
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Eleutherios
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sat, 23. May 09, 10:21
Awesome sauce! Do both ships need a transporter or only one?Sinxar wrote:Terracorp HQ has them. Good news you can even dock a capital there (surprisingly I didn't realize this until recently).Eleutherios wrote:but where abouts can i find a transporter for a refuleing barge? the only way i have been able to transfer large amounts of good is ship>follow me> eject cargo> grab can> go about your business.
And the problem i have with using landed ships to trade is that unles the landed ship has an XL class cargo hold... its pretty much useless to supply certian aspects of M7/8/2/1