[TC] Are corvettes somewhat limited by their weapon selection?

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xeb0
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[TC] Are corvettes somewhat limited by their weapon selection?

Post by xeb0 » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 18:26

It seems like most of the really good anti-fighter (FAA) and anti-capital (Gauss) weapons are only accessible to ships at or above the M7 class.

For instance, I just bought a heavy centaur; Awesome turret coverage. Unfortunately, the best weapons I could stick in those turrets were PRG's for some moderate fighter control. And my main weapons are the same ones my fighters use, EBC's and HEPT's.

I was perusing the weapons at the x3tc wiki page, and organized them by cargo size. I noticed that the XL cargo-sized weapons are mainly for M1/M2's, and the L cargo-sized weapons are only really accessible to M7's or higher. Both groups had some very nice heavy-hitters for either fighter or capital control.

I figured that this meant the "M" cargo sized weapons should be the bread-and-butter for corvettes, but all of those weapons are a bit...quirky. Nothing in the "M" cargo size really (in my uninformed opinion) clearly out performs any of their basic fighter ("S") counterparts.

Is this a shared opinion among these forums, or am I entirely off base? Is the corvette model's potential stunted by its poor weapons selection?

P.S.
I'm not referring to terran corvettes. Just commonwealth M6's.
Last edited by xeb0 on Fri, 10. Feb 12, 18:31, edited 1 time in total.

Jumee
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Post by Jumee » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 18:31

well if you are playing AP than due to increased laser regen on corvettes you can actually use corvette weapons: CIG's/ISR/IPG which deal decent damage to other corvette's and even frigates and to kill fighters well PRG's/PAC's and etc do an ok job, I mean corvette was never supposed to be a "one ship army" its the role of frigates and bigger

EDIT: ah damn it :D just noticed TC in topic name :D well in TC just use things like EBC's or only part of your weapon banks - something like 4 CIG's in main and there are still a few corvettes that even without the buff do a decent damage to anything mainly Springy (this is terran so doesnt count I guess) and Hyperion with others just use missiles for ships that are too heavy or too light

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Sinxar
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Post by Sinxar » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 19:01

Yea they are. I think its intentional, but IMO most corvettes are just a "Heavy M3+" with a few exceptions OFC. Ammo based, low energy weapons are a decent choice (EBCs) sometimes CIGs can be used like Jumee said in the main battery.

You should think about doing the Terran plot, the Vidar is free and it can (with careful maneuvering) kill carracks. This is because of the weapon system, the Matter/Antimatter Launchers combined with the shielding and maneuverability.

It seems like the Corvette class isnt really made to do what we (read "I") want it to do. Its a good class of ships early game but it seems to eventually get put into the patrol groups and suicidal defense squads sooner than later with the player moving to an M7 or returning to a M3 with M7 support.

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Post by NeverSnake » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 19:05

Yeah, there are a few corvettes worth flying (Vidar, Springblossom, Hyperion etc.) but by and large they're all rather underpowered. Too slowly turning to be effective at fighter combat, too slowly moving to be effective interceptors and too weakly armed to take on capital ships.

I believe they do get heavier missile options than most fighters though.
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David Howland
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M6s!

Post by David Howland » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 19:17

Well unless AP is radically different to TC, I really cannot see how you can complain about M6s limitations. They can fit bigger guns than fighters and are the smallest class to launch nuclear missiles. It is the only class to be a danger to every other class of ship, whether it be an M5 on the run, using jump drive I have stopped a number of those escaping, or a marauding M2, well I have destroyed more of those in a Dragon than any of my patrolling M2s. That along with with the fact it is the largest class to be able to land at any station, makes it the ideal player runabout.
Really what do you want, the smallest ship of war to be able to win a war on it own? Well it seems that Egosoft have finally gone a step too far and granted your wish. In Rebirth you have just one ship to win any war in, I hope you find this greatest fantasy appealing!
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xeb0
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Re: M6s!

Post by xeb0 » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 19:22

David Howland wrote:..Really what do you want, the smallest ship of war to be able to win a war on it own? Well it seems that Egosoft have finally gone a step too far and granted your wish. In Rebirth you have just one ship to win any war in, I hope you find this greatest fantasy appealing!
..I'm not really arguing with anyone here, nor am I asserting an opinion. Not sure where the hostility is coming from.

As for rebirth, I'm sure it will be a fantastic game, but that convo is better held within the rebirth forum.

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Re: M6s!

Post by Nanook » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 19:26

David Howland wrote:....
Really what do you want, the smallest ship of war to be able to win a war on it own? Well it seems that Egosoft have finally gone a step too far and granted your wish. In Rebirth you have just one ship to win any war in, I hope you find this greatest fantasy appealing!
You were doing so well until this last bit. There's no need to be rude. Your opinion is no more valid than someone else's, so if you can't keep it civil, please don't post.
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David Howland
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Sorry!

Post by David Howland » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 19:38

xeb0 and Nanook, I am truly sorry for any offence caused and I withdraw my question!
In my defence all I can say is, where I come from a question with no bad language in it, is regarded as a Quest for Knowledge, not an Offensive Weapon! That however is an explanation but no excuse, again I apologise!
The BANISHED RETURNS.
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David Howland
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Ufo Story!

Post by David Howland » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 22:15

Oh and I have just thought of a magical M6 moment for me, due to UFO posts.
Back when I flew a Dragon as player ship, despite the fact that my favourite Tractor Beaming ship has become M7 and shrikes in particular, I was experimenting with my first Tractor Beam in my Dragon. I noticed a UFO enter the sector, I jumped to the gate it headed for. There I waited and Tractor Beamed it, I held it for nearly two minutes before it broke free. I scanned it and tried to assess whether I could cap or board it. I never have capped or boarded a UFO but the memory of holding this unusual ship in a tractor beam has remained magical for me!
The BANISHED RETURNS.
HEALTH WARNING! Steam Damages Freedom Of Speech!
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Kirlack
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Post by Kirlack » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 22:28

NeverSnake wrote:Yeah, there are a few corvettes worth flying (Vidar, Springblossom, Hyperion etc.) but by and large they're all rather underpowered. Too slowly turning to be effective at fighter combat, too slowly moving to be effective interceptors and too weakly armed to take on capital ships.

I believe they do get heavier missile options than most fighters though.
Oh, I don't know, even the Heavy Centaur can effectively wtfpwn a couple wings of fighters. That is of course, assuming player control and not AI. I don't like trusting the auto-pillock with my 15 million credit ship, thank you very much :p

I don't hold much stock in the 'basic' variants of any M6, but the heavy variants are, typically, kick ass :)

And yes, most if not all M6 can fire the likes of the Typhoon and Hornet missiles, and of course Firestorm and Hammerhead, although that is literally playing with fire in a ship with less than 1GJ shielding :p

David Howland
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No!

Post by David Howland » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 22:47

Not at all Kirlack!
When flying the Dragon and rescuing my Mi, M2 M7 patrols from certain Xenon destruction, my favourite weapon was the Firestorm missile. All one had to do was perfect a continuous advance and retreat manouvers, releasing the firestorms on advances, SIMPLE, easy peasy(usually)!
The BANISHED RETURNS.
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NeverSnake
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Post by NeverSnake » Fri, 10. Feb 12, 23:45

Kirlack wrote:Oh, I don't know, even the Heavy Centaur can effectively wtfpwn a couple wings of fighters. That is of course, assuming player control and not AI. I don't like trusting the auto-pillock with my 15 million credit ship, thank you very much :p
And an M7 can effectively wipe out a couple of wings of corvettes and do almost everything else better than an M6 (they can't dock at stations, but they can carry fighters that are far better for runabout duties than the sluggish M6).

M6s work reasonably well due to their big increase in shielding over a fighter but considering they used to be (and some still are) they perfect player ship it's a shame that you don't look twice at most of them. I don't think I've ever bought more than one or two to fly myself in a game (whereas I bought/captured half a dozen M7s and many of the M3s).
David Howland wrote:Well unless AP is radically different to TC, I really cannot see how you can complain about M6s limitations. They can fit bigger guns than fighters and are the smallest class to launch nuclear missiles.
AP differs by giving the M6s much more weapon regeneration.

By 'bigger' guns you mean guns that do effectively identical damage to those on fighters but use far more energy for a small increase in maximum range (3-3.5km vs. 2.5km) and little increase in effective range against fast targets (similar bullet speeds). AP differs in that this trade-off looks slightly different because corvettes get 4-5x as much weapon regeneration and the extra hull damage of the corvette weapons apparently makes some difference but in TC CIGs and the like are generally considered inferior to EBCs/HEPTs most of the time.
David Howland wrote: It is the only class to be a danger to every other class of ship, whether it be an M5 on the run, using jump drive I have stopped a number of those escaping, or a marauding M2, well I have destroyed more of those in a Dragon than any of my patrolling M2s.
Any capital ship can take out a fleeing M5 if you're close enough, the corvette certainly stands no more chance of catching it than they do
David Howland wrote: That along with with the fact it is the largest class to be able to land at any station, makes it the ideal player runabout.
A TM costing 1/50th of the cost offers the same speed and shielding if all you want is a runabout, and lets you dock a scout for when you actually want to runabout rather than cruise slowly.

And, as mentioned above if you want a combat ship an M7 is far stronger and has few disadvantages.
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Kirlack
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Re: No!

Post by Kirlack » Sat, 11. Feb 12, 02:43

David Howland wrote:Not at all Kirlack!
When flying the Dragon and rescuing my Mi, M2 M7 patrols from certain Xenon destruction, my favourite weapon was the Firestorm missile. All one had to do was perfect a continuous advance and retreat manouvers, releasing the firestorms on advances, SIMPLE, easy peasy(usually)!
I was thinking in AI er...hands though David ;)

For launching them from my HCP (my preferred M6) I usually throw 4 or 5 out around the 20km mark and cover them with a few wasps. I don't find I need to worry about incoming PBE fire because the HCP has decent turret coverage and shreds most fighters with a CIG/PBG combo, or PRG if I'm facing Ms :s Bloody Xenon...
NeverSnake wrote: And an M7 can effectively wipe out a couple of wings of corvettes and do almost everything else better than an M6 (they can't dock at stations, but they can carry fighters that are far better for runabout duties than the sluggish M6).
I'm not denying the stopping power of a frigate, I fly a Shrike for nearly every combat mission, but I tool around in my HCP and pick fights with the occasional pirate wing or two, or the odd fighter or freighter I feel like stealing. Maybe it's because I don't keep a personal fighter aboard my Shrike, so nothing to switch into, but I just like a corvette for pottering around the universe.

I also keep a very healthy supply of high explosives to hand, you know, for emergency measures :D

With that in mind, I don't find the M6 class to be restricted by it's weapon options at all. With the addition of missiles (and yes, I know that might dilute the original question, but it's worth noting), they can accomplish the same as an M7, to a point. I've leveled Xenon sectors from the bridge of both classes, although it naturally takes longer in the corvette.

Manta01
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Post by Manta01 » Sat, 11. Feb 12, 10:19

The are mostly fire support and escorts for capitals and some transports. You see some where they are the lead in formation patrolling. But they are mainly for holding off M3 and other corvettes.

The Hyperion Vanguard is an exception but still lacks the firepower.





The larger capital ships weapons would really be too much on a corvette.
Last edited by Manta01 on Sun, 12. Feb 12, 11:17, edited 1 time in total.

David Howland
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Uncivil?

Post by David Howland » Sat, 11. Feb 12, 11:02

Many will say I should not raise this here but this did arise in the cut and thrust of this debate about player ships, which because players spend so many game hours in them evoke powerful loyalties. Also I think it absolutely vital that this is clarified in this forum so that players posting here can know what can and cannot be posted in these recurring debates, safely.
Yesterday I posted in defence of the M6 challenging the notion that one ship might be expected to do anything without limitation. The OP found this view hostile and I apologised. The moderator accused me of being uncivil???
Well I have read the post over and over and I am really worried, on reflection I cannot see anything at all uncivil in it at all. Can anyone please clarify this for me?
The BANISHED RETURNS.
HEALTH WARNING! Steam Damages Freedom Of Speech!
Congratulations Egosoft on increasing memory usage from 2 to 3 Gb.
Bin playing X too long when Egosoft refuses to sell you their latest game?
The only steam I want is in my kettle! STEAM=GAME OVER.

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