Investing in ships = lost profit?

[goslin]

Just got my HQ and now I realize what all these previously "useless" wares are for, like quantum tubes, microchips, computer components, etc. The thing is, if I build these factories for retail purposes I make a ton of money, but if I built them for myself to build my own ships... I make nothing. It is a big letdown to me that while everything in the game seems to build up to you building your own fleet of ships, there is really nothing "profitable" for you to then use those ships for. I feel like I'm just joyriding around the universe smashing things, but not making any money for it...

Is there any "profitable" reason to actually make your own ships? Before I get some of the more obvious answers... I recognize the following value:

1. Ships you produce from parts you also produce are essentially free, or much cheaper than ones bought at a shipyard

2. As I build more stations here and there I expect I will need more TS ships, so, guess I can make them myself instead of buying them.

3. I can also build non-TS class ships for defending stations and merchants

But here is the deal....
TS class ships are already essentially free to me, I mean even a full decked out Sturgeon is only 1 mil, which is a drop in the bucket at this point. And is waiting for a production queue on my HQ to build 10 of those somehow cheaper? Time is money.
Non-TS class ships can get really pricey, even to me, and are also needed in fewer numbers, so.. waiting for a production queue for a price discount could maybe be worth. BUT, how is this going to make me any money and not just be a drain on resources for no profit? I don't build stations in locations I have to defend in the first place, and my merchants don't need escorts either because a) they have jumpdrives, b) i blacklist war/xenon/pirate sectors, and c) I am on extremely good terms with every faction in the game (except neutral with terran/yaki/pirate).

So... I really WANT to make ships, but maybe someone has either some ideas I'm not thinking of how to use those ships profitably or etc etc?

[Jumee]

you really only build ships you cant buy, because as you said yourself by the time you get HQ you can buy anything in any quantities (also very long production times and the overall resource and credits aspects cost mean that in after all the ships you build cost you around the same as if you bought them), so I guess that except for building unique ships the only reason to build instead of buying is roleplay or something

[TTD]

If you set up a closed loop to produce all requirements for your ship production...
...yes it is producing ships for almost nothing,except the credits needed for each ship.

Back in the days of Reunion,when the PHQ was first introduced,someone did an excel sheet of costs/materials for each ship.

That person or maybe someone else made a list of prices you might get when selling self manufactured ships.
But it varied,depending on which ship was sold to which race and your rep with that race...or thereabouts,iirc.

So although it takes time to build the ships,sinking resources and credits,you can make some profit.

However,many players use self production as a means to reproduce rare or unique ships.

A squadron of Hyperions,each holding two M3+ s looks really cool !

[goslin]

I'd like to build myself a fleet of Boreas(s?), but of course to do that I'd have to junkyard the one I already paid 90mil for... seems like it would only be worth it for ships you got without paying for, like the Aamon Prototype or #deca.cefa.

[goslin]

Do you get monetary rewards for killing terran ships in war sectors while you are OOS? For that matter, does your combat/fighting rank increase?

You can see where I'm going with this, just looking for something for my ass-kicking fleet to actually DO.

[David Howland]

I take TTDs view on this once you have wealth buying off the shelf makes life easy, save the PHQ for producing fleets of unique ships, after all when the enemy shows up to destroy your biggest complex you want ships that give you the edge, to flatten them. Personally I cannot produce enough Arans for my purposes!

[goslin]

Well, if reaching a certain levels of "success" did provoke periodic raids on your structures that would at least give a purpose to having such ships. But the thing is, I have built my expensive complexes in core sectors next to NPC orbital defensives not to mention the several NPC M2's patroling...........

[sadron]

FYI you can reverse engineer prototype ships. So instead of hunting down those High-Tech Traders with the pretty Nova Prototypes and such you can instead send the one you did capture and make your own from now on, letting them keep their lives instead of you killing their astronaut suits in sheer frustration and rage when they finally bail from reloading the game 50 times because they want to keep their pretty ship more than they care about their lives.

[goslin]

Right, and I'll certaintly do that with other non-buyable ships I come across... but.... then what do I use those ships for is the question....

[TTD]

Sometimes it is good to take a deep breath,look at your game and ask yourself...

"If I were to restart now,with the knowledge and experience I have gained in this run through,would the game look better after the same number of hours?"

I have a TC save that I started almost at the beginning.
I have used it on and off after learning new skills in fresh games.
Today,all main plots are completed without cheats and added scripts or mods.
I am very attached to that game play,but I still start with other games starts from time to time.

In AP , I have three games running atm.
Still learning and testing before adding my new expertise to the main game.

then what do I use those ships for is the question....

This is where some of the THINK part of the game comes in.
What are these ships capable of?
How best to arm them?
look up some of the other threads, that deal with the specific ship , for ideas.
It's your sandbox.You chose,but different players use the same ships in different ways

[Kirlack]

I have a small squadron of Hyperions (12 total) in my vanilla TC save. I put them to good use harassing the Paranid. It's their own fault. If they would put the ship on sale I might leave them alone, but noooo, they like to keep them for themselves. So I like to teach them to share

Like most aspects of the X series it's about what you want to do, ultimately. Lay waste to the whole Argon Prime region. Wipe out every Terran ship and station from Oort cloud to The Moon. Destroy all Xenon and claim their sectors as your own!

What do you want to do?

[goslin]

Arbitrary destruction and mayham is already on my todo list, but what I'd like to know is "what can i use my military ships which are not priocupied in any way currently for which will generate profit"

Like.... order them to endlessly patrol the warzone border sectors (but I dont see what I get out of this). Do I get combat-prowess-rank or faction-reputation for my ships killing racial enemies while im OOS?

One thing I've found to use some of them for, is "defend sector" @ the HUB while it is connecting two terran sectors so trade ships come through. Then have a TS setup to collect wares.

Btw... I REALLY want to board and RE one of those Springblossems that keep coming through but they are too damn fast, and theres no way I'm going to ever get enough faction with aldrian to buy one legit. Not that I could ever equip it with terran-only weapons if I had one.

[Morkonan]

Arbitrary destruction and mayham is already on my todo list, but what I'd like to know is "what can i use my military ships which are not priocupied in any way currently for which will generate profit"...

By being able to protect your factories, complexes and trade-routes, those ships are helping other holdings to generate a profit.

Nations don't load up their battleships and air-craft carriers with trade-goods, hoping to make a quick profit. The reason is that those ships are not intended to directly participate in their economic models, unless they're running off, conquering other nations. Those ships ensure the stability and continuing opportunity of existing trade and future business.

As for what to do with your uber-fleet, retool it for low-cost battling (no missiles, no fighters or ammo) and then go 'round picking on other fleets so you can collect the wares and spoils from the battles. Or, you could download a mod that enables you capture stations, sectors and the like, or even find or make one that gave you rewards for OOS battles. Having your fleet act as mercenary guards in Black Hole Sun, for example, and getting paid a standard bounty for every Xenon ship they killed would be sort of cool.

[Virtualaughing]

If you produce all the required goods in self sustaining comlexes then that is virtually free resources for your ships...

[TiGGs]

It is not free resources because of opportunity costs. You will lose the money you could have gotten if you had sold the stuff. But the same applies to expensive missiles as well. Why would you waste so much money every battle? Of course for the fun! You earn money in order to spend on fun things. That's the whole point, right?

[ConCorDian]

im with TiGGs, building your own ships is worth it in the long run, i have a series of ships sitting waiting to be RE's, such as Xenon/Pirate ships i cant buy, things like the Aggy and Hype from the Paranid.

yes it will take me a while to reproduce those ships BUT i get to have the fun of trying to wipe out the Xenon with a Xenon fleet.... having the unique ability to have patrols of 5-7 Hypes with 2 Aamon's docked to each.

going pirating the pirates with pirate ships (say it fast 5 times )

its the fun factor rather than the profit factor... also if you say that money is not an issue now, because you have so much why worry about profits?

[Neofit]

I think what the OP is really asking about, behind the allusions to profitability, is what I was asking about in a recent thread: wtf do you do once you're rich and powerful. As hinted by this sentence:

You can see where I'm going with this, just looking for something for my ass-kicking fleet to actually DO.

Sure, THINK and blah-blah, but I can't just make up a conflict where there is none, and in any case the game engine won't allow for conflicts that aren't scripted in the plot. I hear there are mods to take over sectors or something. Can someone list a few scripts combos, compatible with AP, that would prolong the game past the "rich an powerful" stage?

[ConCorDian]

if your rich and powerful declare war on everyone.... see how long your weath and power lasts when you have every ship in the galaxy other than your own red to you!!

[Neofit]

if your rich and powerful declare war on everyone.... see how long your weath and power lasts when you have every ship in the galaxy other than your own red to you!!

Nah, this is what I was talking about by "making up a conflict where there is none". This does not make sense, nobody sane would do that, and anyway would serve no purpose with non-conquerable sectors.

OTOH, if the world was a bit more dynamic by what, the 3rd or 4th version of X3 already (random civilian traffic in-sector does not a dynamic world make, it's just a bubble of mostly random activity like in the GTAs), if races were going to war with each other, then make peace, alliances, durable sector conquests, random huge alien invasions, etc., and I was forced to take part in this (Mount and Blade is a good example), then the interest in the late game would increase tenfold AFAIC.

[ShoC]

Wasn't there one person who locked down a sector totally and ended up having his/her name being displayed on the sector ownership and marines in his/her name also

what was the outcome of that, thread seemed to sink even tho I thought It was kind of cool