Working on complex hub and tubing models.. (?Resolved)

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xTemon
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Working on complex hub and tubing models.. (?Resolved)

Post by xTemon » Thu, 22. Mar 12, 06:20

So, I'm working on the Complex tubes and connectors and building a new Hub model. Have made replacements for the original tubes and connector which I am no longer using and will make available later.

These original_replacements have no textures, are slightly lower poly than the originals with the exception of the Hub connector, and have not had smoothing applied.

I have since started making new replacements that are intended to be much lower poly than both those and the originals while being much cleaner and nicer looking. Have actually finished all the preliminary work and have moved the base models to separate files for further work.

I said the last ones were my best work 3D modeling and I'm happy to say I have far surpassed that with these ones. I'm also building a new Hub and have got most of the base model designed and built.

I will be adding docking areas and such as I go, but I've put that off for now in favor of getting these new ones finished. Once I've finished them, I'll be replacing the replacement Hub connector I made with a better and lower poly model too.

Happy to say that so far, the new model is just over 800 polys without cloning the cap or extruding the end to make the connection knuckles. Also, that is with the shield gizmo that is on one end of two of the models. Specifically, it's 802 polys. :)

I'll keep this updated as work progresses and once I have them all textured I'll post some screenshot links through Steam when I get them in game. I'm not really big on image hosting sites. Still a lot of work to do yet though of course...

-------------------

First version replacement models now available.

[ external image ]
Last edited by xTemon on Wed, 28. Mar 12, 01:43, edited 3 times in total.
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xTemon
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Post by xTemon » Thu, 22. Mar 12, 06:52

nvm.. just remembered there are files which tell you which numbered file is which. Just have to go searching for them. Complex Hub model is easy, but I still have to find the other components.

edit: well, it seems I can't access that file as X3 Editor 2 references VFS and gets an exception when trying to open older files. That seems to be what is happening anyway.

Basically, it is looking at VFS and will extract the VFS file from 03 instead of the 03 file which I know is different. It certainly doesn't have Terran Torus in it as it has been there since X3R or earlier for certain.

So, best I can guess is the VFS picks up the newest version of each file and ignores all older versions. I suppose there are work arounds like extracting just that cat then redirecting the X3 editor to a new folder with that cat/dat and reloading the game data. Might do it.
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Post by cattafett » Thu, 22. Mar 12, 17:36

not sure what you are asking for but this replaces the hub model with a better one and this replaces the tubes with ones that have less polys
while they may not be what you want they point you in the right direction
those UFOs you hear about are just what you tried to explaine to me going over my head
Advanced Complex-Hub you know you need it Catta Fett's D.O.G.S Vanilla safe mod collectionyou don't need them but you want them
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Post by xTemon » Thu, 22. Mar 12, 22:49

Thanks Cattafett. Exactly what I was looking for. I gave up and went to sleep last night after crashing mod manager a few times and X3DModels viewer a hundred times or so. Crashed notepad 20 or 30 times too. Not sure what is in some of those files, but they are definitely not mod friendly. :)

I never did get around to moving the cats around and redirecting the editor, so this will help a lot. Basically, I just need the numbered names of the appropriate models and I'm good.

I'm guessing Saetan did exactly what I am thinking of, considering the Complex Hub system is all hard-coded, (best guess), so only replacing the numbered models with same numbered models will do.

Interesting mod he has there, but I want to actually model an entirely new Complex Hub with more connection points. The internal and external docks I also plan to put in as well as the Cap docking array as: who wants a Complex Hub without the ability to dock at least one Mammoth anyway? :)

Have to start modelling now I know it's possible to rename all my models appropriately. :D

edit: awesome. pulled files and used them to find and extract the originals. I did notice however, he never replaced the piece that goes on the back of the hub, and for some reason his hub seems to be different than the one I saw in the pic.

Maybe it was just the angle or the lacking of the docking clamps, but it looks identical to the original.

Still.. cool. Didn't realize anyone had done that. :)
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Post by cattafett » Fri, 23. Mar 12, 00:20

xTemon wrote:edit: awesome. pulled files and used them to find and extract the originals. I did notice however, he never replaced the piece that goes on the back of the hub, and for some reason his hub seems to be different than the one I saw in the pic.

Maybe it was just the angle or the lacking of the docking clamps, but it looks identical to the original.
can't remember what the original hub looked like
but i think that mod was made from the original hub just with bits added
xTemon wrote:Have to start modelling now

please please please make a hub with the aran/super shipyard internal dock and around 4 cap ship docks
those UFOs you hear about are just what you tried to explaine to me going over my head
Advanced Complex-Hub you know you need it Catta Fett's D.O.G.S Vanilla safe mod collectionyou don't need them but you want them
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings

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Post by xTemon » Sat, 24. Mar 12, 15:53

Taking a bit of time to get used to modelling again. Rediscovering all the stuff that doesn't work right. cut for example creates dozens of polys and wrecks the model for most work built on it.

Kind of a pain, so I'm mostly limited to building off a base shape with some planning and/or adding extra elements to get what I want.

Still have to figure out how I'm going to optimize the objects for minimal polycount. deleting flat surfaces and capping holes should help, but I know there is a built in tool that will do more.. at least I think there was.

Got the 10524 model built and arranged a bunch of materials for import with the model, which worked fine. If that one has too many polys I'm not really concerned, but I'd like to limit the polys on the tubes because they are used so often.

Still, it will end up being higher poly than Saetans HUB changes. His are very basic shapes with very low poly counts, where I'm going to try to make them look complex while limiting polys as best I can. A little tricky.

Might chew through the other lesser models today and get them textured, hopefully a bit later I can post some pics.

edit: Looks like I can reliably optimize the model without losing overall appearance. Dropped the polycount for the first one from 1812 to 932 without any loss I would consider noticeable. Looks good that is, even with half the number of vertices and polys it started with, more or less.

That gives me a little more to work with I think, given I need higher poly base meshes to actually build from. :)

edit2: Just by comparison, the original model had 764 polys so I only went a little over with the new one. I don't know if I mentioned, but that was the connection link model that went on the back of the HUB. Funny little thing where the tubes joined it which I originally thought was actually a part of the HUB.
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Post by Saetan » Sat, 24. Mar 12, 16:25

xTemon wrote:... Still, it will end up being higher poly than Saetans HUB changes. His are very basic shapes with very low poly counts, where ...
I'm far not creative enough to do modelling or texturing, so I stopped doing that.

Simply copied the original complex hub, made a hole into it for internal hangar ... copied a Y-part of the docking arms, moved and rotated it a little, added TL docking points. Finished. So, "my" basic shapes are Egosoft's basic shapes for real. ;-)

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Post by xTemon » Sun, 25. Mar 12, 21:08

Well.. the tubes are turning out to be a little more trouble than I thought. I'm getting better polycounts than the originals, but only marginally so on one and I'm not sure with the other two.

Seems I could have thought it out a little better. They turned out all right, (I think), but I've only actually finished one, where I've got a bit more work to do on the other two. Not sure how much it will optimize the complexes made from them for GPU/CPU load, but at least they'll be new. :)

Should get started on the HUB itself a little later. Hopefully the gizmos on the other two don't push my polycount up too much.

edit: Haven't done any texturing yet, but I finished the other 2 models.

Polycounts (New / Original):

_445: 2138 / 2782
_446: 2582 / 4334
_447: 2553 / 3420

I guess if you get enough of them in one place that'll make a difference, but I think I might try to make a lower poly version after I finish the HUB. Figured out a better way to do it and still have a nice model when finished.
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Post by xTemon » Mon, 26. Mar 12, 02:26

Saetan wrote:
xTemon wrote:... Still, it will end up being higher poly than Saetans HUB changes. His are very basic shapes with very low poly counts, where ...
I'm far not creative enough to do modelling or texturing, so I stopped doing that.

Simply copied the original complex hub, made a hole into it for internal hangar ... copied a Y-part of the docking arms, moved and rotated it a little, added TL docking points. Finished. So, "my" basic shapes are Egosoft's basic shapes for real. ;-)
Still.. functional piece of magic you worked there. I'm surprised your low-poly models still posed a problem when compared to the original models, but then I've yet to build a complex over a 100 stations.

My last complex was around 90+ and I just started noticing lag from the connections at that point, but only after I added the last few stations and I think.. yes, I was running X3DModel Viewer at the same time. Once I shut it down it handled it fine.

Actually, the Model Viewer sometimes lags inexplicably when run with X3. Maybe because it was-at the time-pulling from the same file-base. Can't think of any reason beyond that, unless maybe the code bunches up periodically and just refuses to run smooth.

Awesome program anyway. Don't know what I'd do without it. :) Same goes for X3 Editor 2 of course, as I wouldn't even have the ability to look at the cat files otherwise.
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Post by xTemon » Mon, 26. Mar 12, 06:34

julieford7 wrote:[ external image ]Basically, it is looking at VFS and will extract the VFS file from 03 instead of the 03 file which I know is different.
Yeah, that sounds about right, and it's about what I was thinking. Unfortunate, but there are a number of possible workarounds. Fortunately, the forums workaround saved me the trouble. :D

..anyway, that's awesome of course and I'm happy I didn't have to waste anymore time than I did, but I came here to celebrate. :)

Working on HUB model now and I'm very happy with it so far. No idea how many polys yet, and it's a long way from finished, but the base model is coming along nicely. :D

..actually, probably the best model I've done. Maybe I'm just over-enthusiastic, but it looks cool I think. :lol:
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Post by xTemon » Tue, 27. Mar 12, 09:41

Updated the top of the thread. :)
Original post wrote:I know these are probably in cuts and I've been searching the forums for a thread I remember from wayback that listed all these models but I haven't found anything yet.

Anyone remember where that thread is or even which files I am looking for off-hand? Rather not unpack and look at every one, but I suppose I will have to in all likelihood.

Unfortunately X3Editor doesn't see them with its model viewer and just gets a blank window.

..because crashing 3DModel Viewer is fun. :|
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