Economy question: Who is the end consumer?

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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Sarganto
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Economy question: Who is the end consumer?

Post by Sarganto » Fri, 30. Mar 12, 10:00

So I am wondering, what keeps the economy going?
I realize that you can sell stuff to trading stations and they will slowly consume everything they have in stock.
But how about weapons, shields and so on? Do equipment docks slowly consume those things too? Or are you as a player the only consumer?

I am wondering because you have a lot of input out of thin air and every market or station would be saturated with weapon-stuff, if you are the only consumer.

So please tell me how the economy works, who consumes all the end products and takes them out of the game?
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Virtualaughing
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Post by Virtualaughing » Fri, 30. Mar 12, 10:36

Trading and Equipment docks are. They eventually running out of everything in time if the NPCs and you don't sell them anything at all.

Another key element is the secondary resources because (by my observe) they aren't directly linked to the production so with or without them the production time is the same. (this is only speculation.)

The final consumer is the death count and lost commodity which was bought somewhere. This can be used for your advantage if you setup an illegal goods production site in any Unknown or Pirate sectors and then scann all of your consumers in sectors where their cargo is illegal. You can make extreeme profit and build good reputation. aka the ultimate cheat without vainglorious exploit XXXĐ
Last edited by Virtualaughing on Fri, 30. Mar 12, 10:52, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Smart_Bomb » Fri, 30. Mar 12, 10:36

Hi tech traders in fast fighter ships can sell the bulk of that.
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Post by Llama » Fri, 30. Mar 12, 11:11

Secondary resources just get used up over time with no affect on the game, as do wares in trading stations and equipment docks.
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Sarganto
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Post by Sarganto » Fri, 30. Mar 12, 11:25

Alright, now I know what I have to aim for.

Find a place, where you have a lot of equipment docks close that buy/sell the same things and then sell stuff to them on average price -1.

Or just produce missiles they don't buy/sell normally and then sell it to them in unlimited quantity :D
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Bobucles
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Post by Bobucles » Fri, 30. Mar 12, 18:32

Trading stations and equipment docks will slowly consume goods over time.

Many goods are destroyed as freighters make trips through hostile (Xenon/Pirate) space.

No one knows where space drugs end up. ;)

The largest market consumers are other factories. While there are exploits to sell an unlimited volume of goods, it'll always be at average prices. To get better margins (and trade rank), you'll need as many NPC factories to trade with as possible, and to do the trades with your own ships.

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Post by EmperorJon » Fri, 30. Mar 12, 19:20

The economy, while fun and seemingly immersive at first, is quite hollow and "faked". Wares come out of thin air due to free NPC energy, traders and new stations just get freely spawned, they never spend any money or have any limits, wares move around and get converted and eventually disappear from the economy by being used as secondary resources, consumed as goods in a dock, or just being dumped in some remote sector by a suicidal trader deciding to fly through X347... Rebirth will supposedly contain a deeper and more meaningful economy, which is nice.
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martimus
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Post by martimus » Fri, 30. Mar 12, 21:06

I would love to see ships only use weapons and equipment that are actually produced and available. To see all goods have a specific use and have NPCs use them the same way as you. I kind of expect this based on my years playing Eve, but it makes sense that a single player game would have a hard time with this.

It would be nice to watch some battles and nitice that the Paranid prefer to use lots of Nemesises so you can build those ships and the weapons they use and the Paranid will buy them from you based on need. I dont like that all NPC ships use equipment that was generated seperately from the actual equipment being produced by factories.

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Post by jlehtone » Fri, 30. Mar 12, 22:37

martimus wrote:I would love to see ships only use weapons and equipment that are actually produced and available.
So Xenon, being totally without Factories, would always fight without guns and shields? The current "economy" is "faked" in order to create the illusion of economy, while a more realistic model would probably crash.

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Samuel Creshal
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Post by Samuel Creshal » Fri, 30. Mar 12, 22:39

jlehtone wrote:
martimus wrote:I would love to see ships only use weapons and equipment that are actually produced and available.
So Xenon, being totally without Factories, would always fight without guns and shields? The current "economy" is "faked" in order to create the illusion of economy, while a more realistic model would probably crash.
I'm pretty sure it would be possible – but I doubt it'd be worth the effort. By the time you have enough economic power to really influence the races' war economy you can just buy half the universe anyway…

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Post by Llama » Sat, 31. Mar 12, 07:36

A 'real' economy doesn't work with the current trader NPCs. You'd have to make the NPC traders smarter, and make waaaaaay more energy/crystal/basic food complexes to get anywhere, due to the losses from pirates and stuff. I tried making it like this myself, didn't really work. Either there was barely any trade opportunities for the player, or the whole economy stalled badly. Constant input/output like free energy and trading station reduction is the only thing that stops the economy from tipping in either direction.

I think the one improvement I'd like to see is area rather than station based prices. IE: If one group of sectors have an energy shortage, the min/max price of the whole area should be increased to compensate.

Say 3 stations were out of energy. You should be able to max supply one for full price, and then supply that same station with excess energy for a reduced (but far from minimum) cost as they could easily onsell it to the other stations etc.
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Virtualaughing
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Post by Virtualaughing » Sat, 31. Mar 12, 07:51

My primary goal is always to produce all the major resources for myself. More NPC factories you can supply or buy stuff from is = more money ;p
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I think Egosoft has already worked out our doom, because Xenon AI will reach the stars! :D

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Post by Nagittchi » Sat, 31. Mar 12, 13:53

Nothing makes me turn my head, smile and whistle than seeing a NPC trader getting blown to bits by Argon security, only have crates of Space Weed left after the explosion... knowing my Space Weed factory is at the adjacent sector...

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