[GUIDE] to the ST/LT/UT/CAG/CLS1/CLS2

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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Alacard1
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[GUIDE] to the ST/LT/UT/CAG/CLS1/CLS2

Post by Alacard1 » Fri, 6. Apr 12, 03:25

I have finally finished my Player-Automated Trader Guide and after four rewites I believe it is ready to go live.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback, whether positive or negative, you might have about the accuracy, wording, grammar, readability of this guide.

Thanks

jkjklkl
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Post by jkjklkl » Fri, 6. Apr 12, 03:55

I've only read the section on MkIII Traders so far

- Try to be objective. The LT vs UT debate has been going on for a while now, with no definitive answer as to which is more profitable. Unless you can prove that UTs make less profit per hour than LTs, simply provide readers with the option to use UTs.

- LTs only use the deterministic approach to sales when restricted to a jump range of 2 or lower. Anything else uses the UT algorithm. (source: your source)

- Go into more detail about what "resources" should be in the sector.

- Talk about what happens when traders level up (ie extending cargo, buying JD/ecells/drones, increase in trade range, cost per level up, etc)

- Talk about what happens when a trader gets "stuck" and how to fix it.

- List some good starting sectors (ie Empire's Edge, Ceo's Doubt, etc)

- Balance is key, not speed. Caiman SFs are far from the fastest TSes, but many people have used them with great results. Other great ships include the regular Mistral and the Demeter and Mercury variants.

- Talk about non-TS options. While TSes are probably the most widely used, there are advantages to using M6s and TPs. While people generally won't question why fighters aren't used, it'd still be a good idea to include it.

- Advise readers not to arm their traders or to give them escorts. Speed, the jumpdrive, drones, and Mossies (IS) are what they use to survive.

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Post by Alacard1 » Fri, 6. Apr 12, 08:32

jkjklkl wrote:I've only read the section on MkIII Traders so far
Hrmm....

jkjklkl wrote:- Try to be objective. The LT vs UT debate has been going on for a while now, with no definitive answer as to which is more profitable. Unless you can prove that UTs make less profit per hour than LTs, simply provide readers with the option to use UTs.
In my Universe, my Local Traders are more profitable than my Universal Traders. However this is virtually impossible to check using a control and a variable so I used the thought experiment "If I had two games running, each where I started at Paranid Prime & discovered Empire's Edge an it's surrounding sectors, what would be more profitable, a Universal Trader or a Local Trader?" I believe it would be the Local Trader.


However, I also wrote very clearly in my guide
Stuff Alacard already wrote, bolded and underlined in his guide wrote:{my data and experience for 2 X-Universes, DATA DRIVEN opinions please?}
jkjklkl wrote:- LTs only use the deterministic approach to sales when restricted to a jump range of 2 or lower. Anything else uses the UT algorithm. (source: your source)
Thank you, I should and will include this.

jkjklkl wrote:- Go into more detail about what "resources" should be in the sector.
I tried to shy away from the nitnoid specific details (ship types, exact resources, stations, etc.)

jkjklkl wrote:- Talk about what happens when traders level up (ie extending cargo, buying JD/ecells/drones, increase in trade range, cost per level up, etc)
All of that information is contained in a myriad of other guides. I debated including it, but I am unsure how the intellectual copyright works on some of the player-generated & Egosoft generated material. (None of my images are lifted)

jkjklkl wrote:- Talk about what happens when a trader gets "stuck" and how to fix it.
Thank you, I should be more specific about that. However, I did include:
Alacard wrote on Page 18, item 1.1.a wrote:- Best Selling Price Locator – Easy selling when the trader cannot.
jkjklkl wrote:- List some good starting sectors (ie Empire's Edge, Ceo's Doubt, etc)
I tried to shy away from the nitnoid specific details (ship types, exact resources, stations, etc.). Some players genuinely appreciate a level of discovery in the game that I don't want to take away. I did the guide because the software usage is really not intuitive and sometimes downright cumbersome and clunky.

jkjklkl wrote:- Balance is key, not speed. Caiman SFs are far from the fastest TSes, but many people have used them with great results. Other great ships include the regular Mistral and the Demeter and Mercury variants.
Not sure where your coming from with this one...
Alacard wrote on Page 17, item 1.2 wrote:- Typical race freighters are fine as long as they get there quickly.
I believe this would include 75% of the ships you listed.

jkjklkl wrote:- Talk about non-TS options. While TSes are probably the most widely used, there are advantages to using M6s and TPs. While people generally won't question why fighters aren't used, it'd still be a good idea to include it.
Thank you, you are right about this. While an M3, M4, M5 or M6 should never be used as a freighter, there are valid reason for using a TP. I have already addressed using a TM (CLS2).

jkjklkl wrote:- Advise readers not to arm their traders or to give them escorts. Speed, the jumpdrive, drones, and Mossies (IS) are what they use to survive.
You know, I am still up in the air on this one. It's nice to have a freighter that can shoot down the occasional M4 (the most generic annoyance of freighters in my experience.) but I should probably mention it. Then again, most of what you mention is taken care of automatically by the UT/CAG/CLS anyway.

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Post by harkov » Fri, 6. Apr 12, 09:40

Looks like a great guide, I hope I can get around to reading it when I get home. I love that you go into detail on all the options for cags and cls.

You might want to change the last chapter to just 'thanks to' or add that all in game models that were used for the screenshots are property of Egosoft. Also I believe the current choice of words doesn't allow anyone to print the guide or in fact click the link to it since that will reproduce it. Which is weird all together because you can't tell someone that after the fact.

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Post by Alacard1 » Fri, 6. Apr 12, 11:38

harkov wrote:You might want to change the last chapter to just 'thanks to' or add that all in game models that were used for the screenshots are property of Egosoft. Also I believe the current choice of words doesn't allow anyone to print the guide or in fact click the link to it since that will reproduce it. Which is weird all together because you can't tell someone that after the fact.
Thanks, your totally right on the reproduction thing.

At present I am just trying to keep it locked down so that websites don't make a profit from my work... in the very near future I will tighten that up so that people can use it for non-commercial purposes.

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Post by jkjklkl » Fri, 6. Apr 12, 18:38

Alacard1 wrote:Hrmm....
I apologize. I don't have much time what with school and all.
Alacard1 wrote: In my Universe, my Local Traders are more profitable than my Universal Traders. However this is virtually impossible to check using a control and a variable so I used the thought experiment "If I had two games running, each where I started at Paranid Prime & discovered Empire's Edge an it's surrounding sectors, what would be more profitable, a Universal Trader or a Local Trader?" I believe it would be the Local Trader.
That's the thing. If you only discover Empire's Edge and its immediate surroundings, your UT is effectively restricted to being an LT running a sub-optimal routine for calculating profits. The main advantage of a UT is that its range is far greater than the LT's maximum of 10. I've read of a script that logs MkIII Traders' routes and profits. I don't use it myself (since I prefer to stay vanilla), but it would be interesting to compare a UT with the entire universe explored against LTs of different jump ranges.
Alacard1 wrote: However, I also wrote very clearly in my guide
Stuff Alacard already wrote, bolded and underlined in his guide wrote:{my data and experience for 2 X-Universes, DATA DRIVEN opinions please?}
Again, I apologize. I had assumed that that was where you would insert your data.
Alacard1 wrote:All of that information is contained in a myriad of other guides. I debated including it, but I am unsure how the intellectual copyright works on some of the player-generated & Egosoft generated material. (None of my images are lifted)
While you are probably more well-versed in the technicalities of publication and whatnot, surely regurgitating information isn't a crime. Can you not make your own version that is similar enough to have the correct information but different enough to be able to claim that it is your own? If not, could you simply lift the information and then give credit afterwards?

I personally think this information should be included because a MkIII Trader's level essentially defines who he is, and because I assumed the purpose of your guide to be a "one-stop shop" for all info on MkIII/CAG/CLS.
Alacard1 wrote: I tried to shy away from the nitnoid specific details (ship types, exact resources, stations, etc.). Some players genuinely appreciate a level of discovery in the game that I don't want to take away. I did the guide because the software usage is really not intuitive and sometimes downright cumbersome and clunky.
And other people like having their hand held. Perhaps include this in its own section at the end of the guide? Or type it in white font so that people have to highlight it to see it, similar to how the spoiler tags here work.

Alacard1 wrote:Not sure where your coming from with this one...
Alacard wrote on Page 17, item 1.2 wrote:- Typical race freighters are fine as long as they get there quickly.
I believe this would include 75% of the ships you listed.
This came from page 17, actually. Right above where you quoted, you say that "speed is key." I suppose it would cover the majority of freighters I listed, but perhaps this stems from my opinion that guides should be written to baby the player.
Alacard1 wrote:Thank you, you are right about this. While an M3, M4, M5 or M6 should never be used as a freighter, there are valid reason for using a TP. I have already addressed using a TM (CLS2).
Actually, I've always wanted to try the Hyperion as a UT. Faster than all TSs, TMs, and most TPs, with more shields than all of them, the cargo bay of a small TS, and the ability to fend off some pirate attacks to boot (8x CIG, 4x HEPT, and 6x PAC is nothing to laugh at). I'm definitely trying this once I get my PHQ set up.

I believe someone once tested some Springblossom UTs as well, and found them to have an insanely larger profit margin because they go three times faster. I have no source, however.
Alacard1 wrote: You know, I am still up in the air on this one. It's nice to have a freighter that can shoot down the occasional M4 (the most generic annoyance of freighters in my experience.) but I should probably mention it. Then again, most of what you mention is taken care of automatically by the UT/CAG/CLS anyway.
*coughHyperioncough* :P

Rereading my post, I realize I may have sounded condescending or hostile in some areas. I hope that you do not take it as such, as that was not my intention.

I'll read and comment on your CAG section when I have time. However, my CAGs usually run on default settings, so I'm not sure how much help I'll be. My experience with CLS is even more limited. I've only ever used CLS2 to train pilots and transfer wares to the Hub, and I've never touched CLS1 in my life. :oops:

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Post by Alacard1 » Fri, 6. Apr 12, 19:11

About Local Traders versus Universal Traders (which is more profitable)
I think I'm just going to have to do the research, but I am at a loss as to how to determine (with 100% accuracy) which is more profitable. At this point It think they are situational.

The problem I continually have is the sectors are not identical so I have issues eliminating variables.

Including Trader Levels
Thanks, I have decided to include the trader levels towards the end of this guide.

Including Spoilers on great sectors for trading
At this time, I think I will include some sectors in a partially empty grid that the player can fill out.

”Speed is Key” statement
Your right, I need to go into further detail about why this is true.

Ship choices for Traders
I am going to stick with the defaults on which ships are available for trading. I am trying to author a guide that will help new players with setting up traders, help intermediate players with some of the details of how those traders work and advanced players make intelligent decisions based on the potential of their software. As such I decided against including some of the more exotic (and hard to get) ships. All of the screen shots I included were of the player-purchasable ships and the guide uses a Mercury (bleh) as the default trader ship.
jkjklkl wrote:I'll read and comment on your CAG section when I have time. However, my CAGs usually run on default settings, so I'm not sure how much help I'll be. My experience with CLS is even more limited. I've only ever used CLS2 to train pilots and transfer wares to the Hub, and I've never touched CLS1 in my life. :oops:
If you don't mind, I would REALLY appreciate someone with your level of experience testing some of my instructions. If you could fire up your game and startup a CAG, a CLS1 and a few CLS2's using my instructions and give me feedback, I would be in your debt.

Thanks for your time bud

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Post by Morkonan » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 01:36

Alacard1 wrote:About Local Traders versus Universal Traders (which is more profitable)
I think I'm just going to have to do the research, but I am at a loss as to how to determine (with 100% accuracy) which is more profitable. At this point It think they are situational.
You can't really set a hard and fast rule regarding which is more profitable in general. It is situational and relies completely on the player's own game. If areas where all the ST/LT are focused are very active, which will eventually be likely, then a UT may not be as profitable as the ST/LT. But, then you have to take into account E-cells and travel times, which are mutually exclusive.. A UT may make great use of e-cells and so can an LT, but an LT not using e-cells will take longer to reach their destination, but if they are using them, might use too many on opportunistic trading with low margins, but if a UT is constantly having to jump all over the map, they might eat into their own margins, but... but... but..

In other words, the "Rule" should be: Use STs/LTs to target specific regions or to help build up local economies and use UTs later in the game in developed galaxies to make the most of profit opportunities. As far as crunching numbers in comparisons between the two types, it's just not reliable enough to be worth it. (IMO)

There's also the "Danger Factor" to consider. But, IMO, UTs getting whacked due to pirates or other hostiles is rare enough not to really worry about it. But, then again, if you've decided to torque off an entire faction on purpose, your mileage will definitely vary...
Your right, I need to go into further detail about why this is true. (speed)
Speed is key not only to survival (Speed is Life) but in profit-making per hour, which is really what everyone is concerned with. Various threads have discussed speed vs cargo capacity and profit per hour, but as we know, that depends on variables that aren't always equal in regards to opportunity. IMO, trying to figure out speed versus cargo capacity is a wasted effort - By the time you figure it out, you could have bought an extra ten freighters.. Obviously, some ships are tailored for specific types of duties and not all will function equally well across all sectors. The rule of thumb should be - Terran Space requires speed, everything else should have a good balance, larger cargo capacity ships are likely better for trading in sectors that frequently have wares which require large floor space in cargo holds. (IMO)

As far as safety is concerned, speed is key as well as a good supply of drones. (Mosquito Missile Defense doesn't do anything OS in X3TC since Missiles always auto-hit when the attacker choose to use them. That is a different OS mechanic, IIRC, than in AP.) However, a good offense might be much better than stripping your freighters all down to small, fast ships. If you want your freighters to have high-survivability, kill the other guy before they kill you... Sector Patrols, maintaining good relations with all races, working to keep hostile pirate spawns to a minimum and picking your automated trading sectors wisely is a much more successful strategy than "ZOMGZ! BUYZ ALL FAST SHIPS NAOW!" But, IMO, it's always worth maxing out engine tunings - I don't sweat spending the trifling amount to make sure the purchase I just made is going to work at peak efficiency.
All of the screen shots I included were of the player-purchasable ships and the guide uses a Mercury (bleh) as the default trader ship.
An excellent choice. There's really no point in telling a new player that using their PHQ to produce UberSpecializedRareFreighter by the score will maximize their trading efficiency. And, as I think most of the advantages for faction ships, like Yaki, are not worth the effort to think about, there isn't much of a reason to go there, either. At least as far as general trading is concerned.

IMO - Min/Maxing ship selection isn't that big of a deal. It's the sheer number of trading ships and their use in very well developed sectors that is key to high profits per hour.
If you don't mind, I would REALLY appreciate someone with your level of experience testing some of my instructions. If you could fire up your game and startup a CAG, a CLS1 and a few CLS2's using my instructions and give me feedback, I would be in your debt.

Thanks for your time bud
There are plenty of threads on the use of CAG/CLS software. But, the most informative are going to be innovative uses for those, since that's the sort of thing that gets down into the nitty-gritty of the scripts. So, threads like Easy ways to keep a fleet supplied, Mobile Mining Guide, CAG setup examples, Refueling TLs with CLS2, [TC] 1 Billion credits, day 3, Vanilla, here's how.(discusses automated Nividium mining in a variety of ways), [X3TC.Guide]Using Commodity Logistics Software to Automate your TL Storage Solution. as well as theengineeringguild.com- Using Trading Newtorks are invaluable sources for innovative ideas.

However, there is no one thread or guide that I can find that goes deeply into all the commands and functions available in CAG/CLS/Supply or any other script, much less how the different options effect other choices... Feel free to write one. :D

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Post by RoverTX » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 01:45

Pretty awesome! And yeah I wouldn't worry about citing people unless its something is controversial or someone shows data or is something you think reasonably wouldn't be drivable from the egosoft documentation(Like a tip from their experiences). Other wise your just citing some one else who got their info from egosoft documentation one way or another. Which just seems silly.

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Post by jkjklkl » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 03:15

Alacard1 wrote: If you don't mind, I would REALLY appreciate someone with your level of experience testing some of my instructions. If you could fire up your game and startup a CAG, a CLS1 and a few CLS2's using my instructions and give me feedback, I would be in your debt.

Thanks for your time bud
I guess this will serve as motivation to finally finish my missile complex and get it running. CLS1 to distribute Ore and Energy, CLS2 to ferry missiles to storage TLs, and CAGs to sell excess. I've finished the majority of it, but I still have a couple dozen stations to buy and build.

If the framerate doesn't crap out too badly, I'll post some pictures and you can see what you made possible (or if you'd prefer that I start a new thread, I can do that too).
Morkonan wrote: In other words, the "Rule" should be: Use STs/LTs to target specific regions or to help build up local economies and use UTs later in the game in developed galaxies to make the most of profit opportunities. As far as crunching numbers in comparisons between the two types, it's just not reliable enough to be worth it. (IMO)
I agree. This would probably be the best idea.

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Post by Alacard1 » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 03:52

jkjklkl wrote:
Alacard1 wrote: If you don't mind, I would REALLY appreciate someone with your level of experience testing some of my instructions. If you could fire up your game and startup a CAG, a CLS1 and a few CLS2's using my instructions and give me feedback, I would be in your debt.

Thanks for your time bud
I guess this will serve as motivation to finally finish my missile complex and get it running. CLS1 to distribute Ore and Energy, CLS2 to ferry missiles to storage TLs, and CAGs to sell excess. I've finished the majority of it, but I still have a couple dozen stations to buy and build.

If the framerate doesn't crap out too badly, I'll post some pictures and you can see what you made possible (or if you'd prefer that I start a new thread, I can do that too).
Morkonan wrote: In other words, the "Rule" should be: Use STs/LTs to target specific regions or to help build up local economies and use UTs later in the game in developed galaxies to make the most of profit opportunities. As far as crunching numbers in comparisons between the two types, it's just not reliable enough to be worth it. (IMO)
I agree. This would probably be the best idea.
I directly quote & source Morkonan, replacing some of the guestimate text.

I would love it if someone would follow my instructions and point out all the bugs (where I miss a step, jump ahead, etc.)

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Post by Alacard1 » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 05:41

Thank you guys.

Guide Updated

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Post by Morkonan » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 05:41

Alacard1 wrote:I directly quote & source Morkonan, replacing some of the guestimate text.
Yayz! I'm published! <ahem> I would like to thank the SFWA for their constant support as well as my editor, Greezle Mumblepenny, for his beligerant nitpicking, pedantic lecturing and ranting tirades about illegally parked goats. I'd also like.. Oh, wait. Never mind.
I would love it if someone would follow my instructions and point out all the bugs (where I miss a step, jump ahead, etc.)
To start: "There are three main types of traders in the X-Universe. The Sector/Local/Universal Trader is the most simplistic of the three in being largely automatic. The Commercial Agent is the second type and is also very easy to manage once properly configured. Lastly and by far the most complicated is the Commodity Logistician. These are the most powerful traders available while also being the most difficult to configure properly."

They're not really "traders", are they? That happens to be one of X3's biggest problems and I honestly have no idea why the developers chose the route they did with these scripts. In fact, they're all more like NPC Pilots than anything else. But, whatever their thinking, it's a stumbling block for new players and makes absolutely no sense, continuity wise.

If I were writing a guide that discussed all of these features, I'd be sure to communicate to the new player how they should view these "Scripts" that they "Install" on their ships. IMO, they're all basically "Pilots." Once they are given an order within their domain, they begin to pilot their ship. The Pilot's name changes from the player's to a randomly generated Pilot name and from that point on, they begin to earn "experience", rising in experience level through the ranks of the particular domain they are working within. They can also earn experience across domains, but there is no particular reason to try to encourage that. Yet, the player plugs them in like some piece of hardware.. I guess the Pilot's Union sucks.

So many new players have the same trouble in recognizing that an upgrade you buy at a station in order to get your ship to perform one of these classes of functions is actually "hiring a Pilot." At least, as far as the game treats them in many respect. (In other respects, the game can "erase" a Pilot, dumping out their hard won experience so they end up a level 1 vegetable.. If you screw up transfers, that is. At least, IIRC. I could be wrong, there.) So, if it weren't for how Egosoft insists on treating them in the game, I'd call them all "Pilots" and be done with it, since calling them all "Traders" is a sort of weaker attribution that isn't always correct. Then, all that remains is to add a mod that has "Mos Eisely Employment Agency" where you can actually hire "Pilots" instead of sidling up to an "Equipment Dock" and unboxing one... :D

But, anyway, you may wish to take a small paragraph and tell the new player that even though they buy these "software upgrades" at various types of Equipment Docks and HQs for their ships, they will be treating them as NPC Pilots for the rest of the game.

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Post by Alacard1 » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 05:46

I was under the impression we referred to NPC pilots collectively as "traders" 99% of the time (there are exceptions, of course)

I believe it would be confusing to tell the player "you get a NPC pilot if you purchase this software unless you don't activate this button..."

Just my thoughts. If you could elaborate some more I'd sincerely appreciate it.

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Post by Morkonan » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 06:52

Alacard1 wrote:I was under the impression we referred to NPC pilots collectively as "traders" 99% of the time (there are exceptions, of course)

I believe it would be confusing to tell the player "you get a NPC pilot if you purchase this software unless you don't activate this button..."

Just my thoughts. If you could elaborate some more I'd sincerely appreciate it.
And, therein lies the problem, doesn't it? :D For, in essence, that's exactly what happens when you "purchase this software." Magically, a new pilot will take over the ship and then commence to turning several million credits worth of expensive hardware into a 5000 ton navigation hazard with all the direction sense of a bag of hammers...

Uh, anyway, what I meant was that a brand "new" player may not recognize the fact that Trade Software Mk III is actually "Dude Cool, The Soon to be Uber Trader That You Are About to Hire." It may not be apparent that Commodity Logistics Software is actually a Pilot that you must level up in order to perform the more advanced functions of not only CLS duties, but CAG duties as well. And, not only that, but a UT can also be a CLS pilot, maintaining separate levels in each domain... or whatever.

In essence, basic Trade software doesn't give you a pilot (An actual named "Pilot" piloting the ship.) But, for some reason, Trade Software Mk III does.. I guess it's like Trade Software Mk III and CLS allows you to put up a "Free Beer" sign on the ship in order to lure in unsuspecting Pilots. But, something that acts very similarly, like Supply software, doesn't give you a new, named, Pilot.

As far as what the community may collectively call ST/LT/UT/CAG/CLS Pilots, I prefer to just call them Pilots. But, that's just me. It keeps it much simpler, as far as a general term for them goes. Actually, it's one of the few similarities that they all share which can be broken down to one word. A CLS pilot isn't always a Trader, while an ST/Lt/UT is always a Trader. But, X3 basically calls them all Traders. So, I suppose one can stick with that.

Because of how these scripts were incorporated into the game, there are some unnecessarily confusing contexts involved and "continuity" in interpretation of game mechanics via the information the player is given, and how it is presented, is broken. That ongoing theme is one reason the game can be difficult to learn, yet is also why it is so feature-rich.

Anyway, ignore my ramblings on this issue. It's not a sticking point in your presentation of the subject in your guide. It's simply a pet-peeve of mine with the way these concepts are introduced and handled in-game.

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Post by RoverTX » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 17:05

Quick question, for my AP game I started a bunch of UT as fast as possible, because in my TC game I did nothing but fight and board and my universe quickly began to loose a bunch of stations because of G.O.D. due to their lack of use. But in AP now I have about 30 UTs all running around the Galaxie, my questions is will this just stop G.O.D. from destroying factories that are already there or will G.O.D. start to add in even more facts to my universe?

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Post by Morkonan » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 22:37

UTs may not be enough to keep stations from being removed by the GoD engine. STs and LTs focused on troubled sectors are better. As far as the GoD engines adding new stations, I'm not sure on that. It may only replace stations that have been removed or destroyed or it may also add new ones if demand reaches a certain critical point. But, I treat it as if the player is the only one that can add new stations, thus the need for the Station Building Missions. Else, why have them?

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Post by Alacard1 » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 04:37

OOZ662 wrote:As far as I've heard, GoD will just delete a station it finds to be very unnecessary. When it finds it needs a station, it will put up Build missions. If they aren't fulfilled and the economy continues to suffer, it will spawn (or steal from a shipyard's service?) a TL and go build it.

Unfortunately, it only seems to apply to the Commonwealth. The Terran economy collapses unfailingly if it isn't modded/propped up by the player.

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Post by jkjklkl » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 11:17

The CAG section was completely useless for me. Perhaps it was a combination of being tired (it's 2 am here) and you going on about station pricing (which should have already been done), but I couldn't find what I needed. This brings me to your formatting choice (which I personally don't like) but that's secondary to content so I'll talk about it later.

- The "Trade Duties" menu is perhaps the most important part, and you just gloss over it. For example, "Purchase Resources (80%)" - what does that mean? 80% could refer to anything. Does the CAG buy resources until it's 80% full? Does it keep it above 80%? Does it only buy when the price is 80% of max or better?

- Don't tell people to set dynamic pricing. Average -1 is just fine, and you could potentially lose profit by selling at a lower price than the NPCs are willing to buy at. Definitely mention that it's there, but people should already know how to set their own prices.

- Mention the ability to switch wares to resources and vice versa.

- As with the MkIII traders, tell people what comes at each level.

CLS1... I'm just going to say this:
If everything you know about CLS1 is in your guide, then I can honestly say I'm more experienced with the software than you are after just 5 minutes if tinkering with it to get it to work. If, however, that's not everything you know, why isn't it in the guide?

Alacard1
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Post by Alacard1 » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 20:26

jkjklkl wrote:The CAG section was completely useless for me. Perhaps it was a combination of being tired (it's 2 am here) and you going on about station pricing (which should have already been done), but I couldn't find what I needed. This brings me to your formatting choice (which I personally don't like) but that's secondary to content so I'll talk about it later.
I need to split that into two sections. Debating how to do that now.
jkjklkl wrote:- The "Trade Duties" menu is perhaps the most important part, and you just gloss over it. For example, "Purchase Resources (80%)" - what does that mean? 80% could refer to anything. Does the CAG buy resources until it's 80% full? Does it keep it above 80%? Does it only buy when the price is 80% of max or better?
I also need to expand on this part. The only reason you would use this is to vend goods that you do not require for another complex or to arm another ship.
jkjklkl wrote:- Don't tell people to set dynamic pricing. Average -1 is just fine, and you could potentially lose profit by selling at a lower price than the NPCs are willing to buy at. Definitely mention that it's there, but people should already know how to set their own prices.
This is problematic as while you can sell at below optimal price, you can also have goods sitting around that are unsold due to pricing. In my games I've found that active pricing works better though my entire economic system revolves around it. Maybe I should include both methods. The -1 is certainly simpler if less efficient (in my experience)
jkjklkl wrote:- Mention the ability to switch wares to resources and vice versa.
I'm sure there are reasons to do this, but for the life of me I cannot think of one.
jkjklkl wrote:- As with the MkIII traders, tell people what comes at each level.
Included abridged version of that on page 20.
jkjklkl wrote:CLS1... I'm just going to say this:
If everything you know about CLS1 is in your guide, then I can honestly say I'm more experienced with the software than you are after just 5 minutes if tinkering with it to get it to work. If, however, that's not everything you know, why isn't it in the guide?
Wow, just wow. There is absolutely no reason to personally insult me, the human being who is simply trying to write a guide to cover a myriad of complicated topics for the benefit of current and future X players.
jkjklkl wrote:...If, however, that's not everything you know, why isn't it in the guide?
This ranges into me playing the game for people. I get the feeling that some would prefer I took a screenshot of every trader-related screen & simply explain what ever option does. As this is not my intention, this guide might not be right for them as that has already been done quite well.

What I am trying to do is write a synthetic explanation of how these features operate with a heavy emphasis on what is possible.

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