how does OOS combat really work???

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p00fer
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how does OOS combat really work???

Post by p00fer » Sun, 15. Apr 12, 22:31

so i overturned my Titan to bout 133 m/s [TC] using a certain cls2 exploit (was practicing, i actually can use the supertune from the cheat collection) and let it battle a Q OOS, from what i've read (don't remember the thread) the fastest ship attacks first, unloads its entire ordinance of lasers and proceeds to assume the position for the opponent to do the same until one of the 2 ships are done. turrets don't exist and therefore their commands are overwritten by the ships Attack... cmd


- both ships were engaging eachother
- Q had bout 10 m/s less then my titan
- Q beat the crap out of titan 3 times ( i kept reloading its shields for testing purposes)
- the Q's laser capacitor never got under 90%
- the Titan never fired, it just had the Kill Q command
- the titan lost 18 GJ worth of shields and then died
-Q never lost a single Kj of shielding...

wtf???
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Post by silenced » Sun, 15. Apr 12, 22:36

Some Monkeys turn wheels and it's outcome is what can be described as OOS-Combat.

Don't laugh, that's the truth. (with other words: it's mostly random, but the fastest ship in an engagement gets the first shot, and mostly a Q is the winner, since it got an evil high firepower, it's a bit awkward that your Titan never fired once since it most likely was 'faster')
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Post by kurush » Sun, 15. Apr 12, 22:41

OOS in TC is basically broken. In AP it works much better, I was even able to jump-rescue some of my freighters that were attacked by a Q.

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Post by ConCorDian » Sun, 15. Apr 12, 22:41

well that seems a bit extreme to be fair... ill be honest ive never got to learning the exact OOS combat rules... to my knowledge it was as your said...

fastest ships total attack power targets slowest ship
is the slower ship still alive? yes or no...

yes
slower ships full attack power hits faster ship
is the faster ship still alive? yae or nae

No
faster ship wins

Yae
repeat again

Nae
slower ship wins

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i heard something about your turn rate affects it also somehow, but i thought that was only for AP with the improved OOS scripts
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Post by p00fer » Sun, 15. Apr 12, 22:55

hmm...well turning rate i did not upgrade, wil supertune and see results with that...otherwise ill limit my cloning to other stuff :P
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Post by EmperorJon » Sun, 15. Apr 12, 23:53

Give turret commands and see if it makes a difference? I'm not sure either, but I'd think that NO turret commands at all could be a bit of a culprit.
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Post by p00fer » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 00:38

they run MARS offensive, but even if they didn't i've seen my ships OOS with mars engage other enemies as if they didnt use mars, just standard attack.

what i did find is that they were using a single mass driver slot, wasting 24 ppc's and 7 FAA...must find an OOS rebalance mod out there...anyway, i supertuned the caps and removed the super engine, left it at 120ish m/s and 4-5 rpm, will test later, right now im testing my cloning skillz with crystals
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Post by Rapier » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 01:18

However it works, mods can break it. Unless you can repeat this in a vanilla game, you should be asking in the S&M forum.
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Post by Zaitsev » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 01:51

p00fer wrote:they run MARS offensive, but even if they didn't i've seen my ships OOS with mars engage other enemies as if they didnt use mars, just standard attack.
IIRC MARS is disabled in OOS combat, since turret commands doesn't work there and the game basically regards all mounted guns as fixed forward facing batteries when OOS. Laser energy doesn't count either, which is part of why the Q is so deadly. IS it runs out of juice rather quickly, but OOS it can shoot forever.

The rule of thumb seems to be "Use a Boreas or a terran ship", since their massive shielding generally lets them survive the initial barrage from the Q and give them a chance to retaliate. A Q equipped with PPCs everywhere they fit and IBLs in the front battery will do about 7.8 GJ worth of shield damage, so anything with less than 10 GJ will end up as space debris pretty quick.
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Post by Geek » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 01:54

Never, ever put ammo based guns for OOS combat (TC). They cause a bug which prevent all other weapons to fire.
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Post by p00fer » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 02:24

Geek wrote:Never, ever put ammo based guns for OOS combat (TC). They cause a bug which prevent all other weapons to fire.
thx for that info will be highly useful
Zaitsev wrote:IIRC MARS is disabled in OOS combat
The rule of thumb seems to be "Use a Boreas or a terran ship",
i knew bout mars not being used, hence y i said it, ill test with the osaka next, see what happens
Last edited by p00fer on Mon, 16. Apr 12, 02:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Vagrant Storm » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 02:55

Geek wrote:Never, ever put ammo based guns for OOS combat (TC). They cause a bug which prevent all other weapons to fire.
Definately good to know...maybe that is why my captured Akumas can not OoS a Q. I have Guass Cannons in every slot that can take one.

I like my GCs :(

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Post by p00fer » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 03:00

i tested the overtuned osaka, since im using the titan for another siege, it definetly has more to do with rudder then engine tuning, the Q auto poofs when coming near the osaka where before even with higher engine but lower rudder the Q always attacked first
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Post by Morkonan » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 03:02

For OOS game mechanics and combat information, you can go here: [TC] [Guide] how to figure out what to put on ships that are going to fight OOS

The information in the thread was never really consolidated, but it has a lot of good tips.

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Post by jkjklkl » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 03:33

Geek wrote:Never, ever put ammo based guns for OOS combat (TC). They cause a bug which prevent all other weapons to fire.
Only when they run out of ammo. But since ammo is used at a horrendous rate OOS, it's likely to happen.

Regarding MARS:
MARS removes the guns from the turrets when not in combat so that the weapon switching can happen faster. If MARS is disabled OOS, doesn't that mean that your Titan doesn't have any weapons installed when going up against the Q?

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Post by Zaitsev » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 03:55

jkjklkl wrote:Regarding MARS:
MARS removes the guns from the turrets when not in combat so that the weapon switching can happen faster. If MARS is disabled OOS, doesn't that mean that your Titan doesn't have any weapons installed when going up against the Q?
Nope. When the ship is OOS it will automatically load every turret with the heaviest weapons on board. Remember, it's Gazz we're talking about. The man has an uncanny ability to think of just about everything. Twice :p
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Post by p00fer » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 04:10

yes, it auto loads the weps, hence y i don't worry much bout mars...
what i found really weird was that the Q did 19GJ of dmg and the Titan never responded (now i know it was due to the damn mass driver) but even then neither did the mass driver fire...anywho, the osaka is trashing x347 now and im in 598, brought the titan along to trash in IS, works wonders.
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Post by Geek » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 11:26

jkjklkl wrote: Only when they run out of ammo. But since ammo is used at a horrendous rate OOS, it's likely to happen.
Nope. This has been fully tested.
Regardless of ammo, they prevent energy weapons to fire.
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Post by Morkonan » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 13:42

Geek wrote:
jkjklkl wrote: Only when they run out of ammo. But since ammo is used at a horrendous rate OOS, it's likely to happen.
Nope. This has been fully tested.
Regardless of ammo, they prevent energy weapons to fire.
Uh... No.

At least, not in Vanilla X3TC. If you're talking about a mod, YMMV.

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Post by highflier » Mon, 16. Apr 12, 14:35

that ammo issue is strange for sure. i noticed in TC that ammo based guns either not nothing at all or chew through its ammo in just one fight (enough for 100 fights)

in AP i have an wodin with MAM launchers doing RRF jumps. i kills pretty quick but it has still its first batch of ammo in the cargo (since 10+ ingame days)!

also it seems, since AP uses a system similar to MARS, that ALL guns on the ship even in cargo counts in the OOS dice game. a J obliterates anything in AP now... a kyoto dies and the J has still more than 3/4 of its shields!
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