M7C, What am I missing?

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KextV8
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M7C, What am I missing?

Post by KextV8 » Tue, 24. Apr 12, 20:41

I'm really trying to find a reason to like this ship class, but I find their relative paper defenses leave me unsatisfied. If they were faster, I could excuse the low shielding, as it is, I'm not sure I really have a use for them at all. Anyone care to explain why these ships don't suck?

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Post by ConCorDian » Tue, 24. Apr 12, 20:51

i use the Cormorant (teladi incase you dont know the name) and where i find the ship useful is as a support craft for my Sirokos, since i cant mass order FD's to attack sheilds i take in a Cormorant with fighters to do the job... and the fact the cormorant can fit 2 forward GC's means it can give heavy fire aid where needed.

it also acts well as a drone carrier... not the way it was intended but by using FD Mk2's or Keris. thanks to its decent cargobay (8k iirc off the top of my head) and can collect them easy thanks to the hanger slots... no other M7 can do that kinda thing as well as the Cormorant
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KextV8
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Post by KextV8 » Tue, 24. Apr 12, 22:05

Why use that over a much cheaper TM that has pretty much the same shielding, higher speed, and is a little slower? It doesn't take much to keep shields down, and If I needed real firepower, I sure wouldn't want to field a bunch of fighter size vessels. Not cost effective. If they had more speed, I could see using them as a kind of interceptor for dealing with random crap that attacked my areas, but at their current speed I think thats just asking for them to die horribly.

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Post by jkjklkl » Tue, 24. Apr 12, 22:24

KextV8 wrote:If I needed real firepower, I sure wouldn't want to field a bunch of fighter size vessels. Not cost effective.
That's what's "wrong" with your line of thought. You see things only in terms of profit. When playing with carriers, you pretty much have to accept that you will take losses. The M7C (and carriers in general) are for the people who simply love carrier combat, regardless of cost. It's a hell of a lot of fun seeing your enemies swarmed with fighters.

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Post by TheZapper » Tue, 24. Apr 12, 22:27

IMHO, the only value they bring; is that a few of the M7C's can dock n=1 TS class ships along with a useful sized cargo hold... kinda convienent to get up and coming factories going in out-of-the-way sectors...

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Post by ConCorDian » Tue, 24. Apr 12, 22:33

jkjklkl wrote:When playing with carriers, you pretty much have to accept that you will take losses.
this is precisly it... why build up an excellent infrastructure if you aint going to spend the money it generates... way i play i largly use Frigates... more importantly ships like the Griffon, Cerberus, Astraeus.. shrike... because they are carriers as well... TM's for me get phased out of combat roles around the mid game stage and used for UT's (the trusty chokaro) as for the larger M1's and M2's i make a point of only buying 1 of each... and RE'ing them, any truly powerful ships like those i build myself to limit how many i have... allowing me to invest in fighters, corvettes and frigates...

not only that but i have found in sum circumstances i would lose a battle if it involves my capital ships (losing tens if not a hundred million+ at a time) when i have taken a swarm of fighters in and won the battle and lost few costing me a fration of the cost!!

only catch to my carrier combat style is fighting insector against Paranid... its amazing how quickly your fighters drop away against PSGs!!
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Post by Rhox » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 07:42

TheZapper wrote:IMHO, the only value they bring; is that a few of the M7C's can dock n=1 TS class ships along with a useful sized cargo hold... kinda convienent to get up and coming factories going in out-of-the-way sectors...
Could you say which M7C exactly can dock TS ships? I've always played with the thought of getting either a Maccana, Guppy or Ariadne (which btw does NOT have low shielding at all, even though its weapons used to be a bit odd)...

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Post by ConCorDian » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 08:23

pretty sure its the Adriane and i think the Guppy.. not sure of the Maccana
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Post by jack775544 » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 08:24

Guppy and Ariadne can dock TS's IIRC.
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Post by highflier » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 08:35

funny that neither of the previous poster said something about the current state of the m7c's...

they are simply not done yet. looks like they are supposed to produce(!) a new kind of drone (m4 class) on the way which makes them background drone suppliers.
so the final use comes somewhat after ConCorDians use.
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Post by ConCorDian » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 08:48

the production part of the M7C was designed for a mod as far as im aware. and im under the belief its bugged...

it basically means that the ship could produce the M4 Drone Haulers of each race... but the Griffon was supposed to do this as well i think.

not only that but it kinda makes EGO's job of balance a nightmare. how are they supposed to put a value on a ship that can create more or less an unlimited number of M4's automatically. it was limited to the max it could hold in hangers.. meaning if the ship had a hanger of 20 it could have 20 drone haulers in active use. but as soon as one got destoyed it would begin construction of a replacement. unless ive been misinformed.

regadless of that though the M7C's can perform a really good light carrier role, in which it is the carrier function that matters... and as any carrier based fighter should tell you, the fighting is done by your fighters, not the carrier itself, thats like getting up close and personal in an M7M... its not ment for that, you keep them out of the way!!
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Post by Larxyz » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 09:03

As the class is today, I find the guppy (M7C) really nice.
While the speed aint all that good, in mid-game before you can afford your own m1carrier, its a good choice :) As a mobile base of operations that is.
Being able to dock 11 sheeps + a TS- super frighter (extra 7k storage)
It's excellent for jumping fighters about too:) as well as storage/resupply depot for missiles :)

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Post by KextV8 » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 09:59

Rhox wrote: I've always played with the thought of getting either a Maccana, Guppy or Ariadne (which btw does NOT have low shielding at all, even though its weapons used to be a bit odd)...
They have M6 level shielding, on an M7. Thats low. One accident and the entire ship + its fleet of fighters goes boom. I can live with the fighters dying, I use them in Carriers and the tougher M7's all the time. The actual vessel itself is too squishy for my taste. If it just had more speed or more shielding, I'd be happy to send them into patrol duty. Unfortunately, the darn things are gonna get instagibbed by other M7s with real firepower if they aren't under direct player control, which makes them just about useless to me. They do have slightly more cargo, and two of them can dock a TS which is kinda nifty. I still don't see that as reason enough to buy one over a Panther, Shrike, or Griffon though. Those ships trounce the ever loving hell out of the M7Cs. When you get down to it, the price difference isn't large enough to justify how fragile these ships are. After full fitting, the M7C actually costs more(with the exception of the Panther of course)!

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Post by jkjklkl » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 10:20

M7s are essentially mini-capitals. As such, they are divided into mini-M1s (M7C) and mini-M2s (M7). Treat an M7C as you would an M1. They are supposed to stay back away from the action while the fighters go and take care of the problem, and their stats reflect that. Their value comes from the utility they bring in being able to transport a lot of fighters at once (as opposed to the 4 of TMs and 9 of the Griffon/Shrike).

I will admit that the Panther is still an awesome ship, though :P

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Post by ConCorDian » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 16:53

im not denying the Panther own every M7 in the carrier function... carrying 20 fighters and still being able to have a decent punch... what else can you ask for.

i just never understood what peoples issue is with the M7C, low sheilding... who cares, as long as it can get into the sector and deploy the fighters and either get to a safe distance or jump away again its preformed its function...

also there was a thread asking what the best M7C was, and you are hard pressed to pick a decider between them, that said a lot about the class... i personally think the Cormorant is the superior ship, it simply fits my play style and the roles i use them in, others picked the Adriane, Guppy... that said i think the only ones who truly picked the Maccana as the best were the more die hard Terrans since there didnt seem to be an arguement for it other than looks that someone didn't throw back that another option did better.

i personally think its one of the better ships they have added to the game recently, second to only the Megalodon!!
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Post by Vayde » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 17:19

jkjklkl wrote:M7s are essentially mini-capitals. As such, they are divided into mini-M1s (M7C) and mini-M2s (M7). Treat an M7C as you would an M1. They are supposed to stay back away from the action while the fighters go and take care of the problem, and their stats reflect that. Their value comes from the utility they bring in being able to transport a lot of fighters at once (as opposed to the 4 of TMs and 9 of the Griffon/Shrike).

I will admit that the Panther is still an awesome ship, though :P
Hi, while I agree having even a small carrier drop ships into battle is desirable, at 13.2 mill for the cheapest without guns or missiles they seem an expensive option.

If as you say there job is to deploy and stand back, why not just use TM's at a fraction of the cost? 3 std TM's at 1.5 mill can deploy 12 ships just as well as an M7C. Might be interesting to see a few battles set up between them and see if 1 or 2 TM's extra would be needed to overpower the extra firepower the M7C's can bring...
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Post by KextV8 » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 20:02

ConCorDian wrote: i personally think its one of the better ships they have added to the game recently, second to only the Megalodon!!
Oh, I would totally agree that the ships in the class are relatively well balanced with each other. I personally find the Cormorant to be the most aesthetically pleasing of the bunch, so it kinda makes me sad they can't dock a TS.

If they bumped the speed of all of them up by about 15-20m/s, or made it so the weakest of the bunch had 2GJ shielding, I'd buy one.

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Post by kurush » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 20:16

The only use I found for M7M is hauling TS ship around without a need to call my Kyoto. They are too underarmed to be useful, with the exception of Panther of course.

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Post by ConCorDian » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 20:52

KextV8 wrote:Oh, I would totally agree that the ships in the class are relatively well balanced with each other. I personally find the Cormorant to be the most aesthetically pleasing of the bunch, so it kinda makes me sad they can't dock a TS.

If they bumped the speed of all of them up by about 15-20m/s, or made it so the weakest of the bunch had 2GJ shielding, I'd buy one.
thats a bit like saying... i would like them if they made them a different ship. also the cormorant has 8k cargohold already, wheres the need for a TS slot? the likes of the Adriane with only 3.5k i can understand to help boost the cargospace.

people need to look at these ships not as warships in their own right. but as a fighter delivery system... they generally offer more hanger space than the other M7's for less money (Panther being exception)... thats a win win to a carrier type player. for a fleet action, they provide the fighters required to assist you combat fleet, not assist themselves. fair enough to the person who like the big power ships they kind of fall short but thats a matter of play style.
kurush wrote:The only use I found for M7M is hauling TS ship around without a need to call my Kyoto. They are too underarmed to be useful, with the exception of Panther of course.
again missing the point of them being a CARRIER not a combat ship. also i dont catagorise the Panther in with them, its a unique ship in my book. if these ships were capible of going toe to toe ship for ship with other M7's they would defeat the purpose of having the other M7's. because everyone would use M7C's because they have the power and a good fighter fleet on top of that, being under powered as a ship but having the fighters keeps it relativly balanced.

its like saying i dont want to use the Colossus because i can get a Titan... sorry to say Colossus wins hands down when it has a full compliment of fighters. its chalk and cheese, i love them, especially the Cormorant, light carrier/drone carrier/light patrol ship it can do the jobs i want it to do
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Post by kurush » Wed, 25. Apr 12, 21:05

ConCorDian wrote:
kurush wrote:The only use I found for M7M is hauling TS ship around without a need to call my Kyoto. They are too underarmed to be useful, with the exception of Panther of course.
again missing the point of them being a CARRIER not a combat ship.
How is that missing the point when I said that their only use is to CARRY TS ships across the universe? :) For all other carrying needs there are better ships.

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