My first M7...friendly fire ftl

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statikregimen
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My first M7...friendly fire ftl

Post by statikregimen » Sat, 2. Jun 12, 11:24

TL;DR? The question is in bold.

First off, epic game, and my first post! I am specifically playing terran conflict, vanilla. Been playing (in real time) about a week, maybe two. Searched around the net for any advice on this, but haven't come up with anything, yet.

I've purchased my first M7 (a Shrike), and mostly loving the new world of options for logistics and combat.

However, what has been extremely annoying, is with this new, vast barrage of gunfire it outputs (compared to my Katana), no matter how hard I try to stay out of range of friendly ships, the enemies always manage to drag them over to me (or they otherwise stupidly wander into range of my guns), and proceed to get their panties all in a tizzy when they get shot. Derp.

So, my question is if there are any tactics or skills I can develop, to help avoid friendly fire, or is this just something I'll have to put up with from now on?

My loadout is straight forward, intended for dealing mostly with mixed fleets of fighters and corvettes, but perhaps it is part of my problem? I've put FAAs on the left and right, and HEPT in all other slots. As far as achieving my main goal, it has been extremely effective (and hilarious fun to just pull up and park in the middle of an enemy fleet and make a bunch of splody ships), but I'm not a big fan of loosing recognition, over the friendly fire issue (and came close to locking horns with a couple of destroyers from it, too).

Oh, and my other favorite (not) thing, is when I'm doing a patrol mission, and the enemy spawns, shoots a hauler, which launches a load of drones, and I loose recognition for accidentally shooting them, too -_-

Triaxx2
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Post by Triaxx2 » Sat, 2. Jun 12, 12:39

Option one is to go modded, and unless you're after Steam achievements, there's little reason not to. MARS is a script that's superior to the built-in targeting scripts in every way. It can be a bit resource intensive though.

Option two, if you'd rather stay Vanilla, is to get some fighters and assign them to a wing. Ones which are quick and well shielded, like Mamba Vanguards are good choices. Then when you see enemies you can order the fighters to run out and engage. Anything your fighters hit doesn't count against you unless they destroy it, and once they have the attention of the enemy, you can order them to run back towards you and the enemies will usually tag along.

The Shrike isn't precisely fast, so it's best used as a flying bunker. A place for your fighters to hide near, and allow them to draw the enemy to you so you don't end up with friendly fire incidents.
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Master of the Blade
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Post by Master of the Blade » Sat, 2. Jun 12, 14:14

If you're liking having HEPTs on your Shrike, try some heavier weapons, like Gauss Cannons in your side turrets, and Concussion Impulse Generators or Ion Shard Railguns in the main array, putting the flak up/down, keeping HEPTs only in your rear mounts. The inclusion of some slower firing weapons should alleviate friendly fire while giving you a massive firepower boost against larger enemies. Flak is accurate enough that it shouldn't encounter friendly fire issues, while Gauss Cannons aren't likely to hit anything they aren't aiming at.
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statikregimen
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Post by statikregimen » Sat, 2. Jun 12, 22:01

Wow, thanks, great replies!

I'm not against modding... It's just that originally, I wanted to play through vanilla, so I could give a good review later. That was before I realized how massively huge this game was, and that it will take me several more weeks, if not months, just to finish the plots. I'll look into the MARS mod, as you recommend.

About dispatching fighters, I'll need to save up some more credits (and fortify my income) so I can readily and easily replace them. Not been too impressed with the AI's combat skills -_- I mean, I'm not even a very good pilot, or anything, but at least I can manage to not get blown up by a ship half my size....
If you're liking having HEPTs on your Shrike, try some heavier weapons, like Gauss Cannons in your side turrets, and Concussion Impulse Generators or Ion Shard Railguns in the main array, putting the flak up/down, keeping HEPTs only in your rear mounts. The inclusion of some slower firing weapons should alleviate friendly fire while giving you a massive firepower boost against larger enemies. Flak is accurate enough that it shouldn't encounter friendly fire issues, while Gauss Cannons aren't likely to hit anything they aren't aiming at.
The main reason I haven't put bigger guns on it, is lack of supply. Its still relatively early game, for me... Actually, I had already bought a Shrike once, but had to roll back to an earlier save, because I didn't realize that 1gj shields were going to be so impossible to find. Once I completed the terran plot, however, then they finally started popping up here and there. So, anyway, I'll keep my eye out for some bigger guns, and additionally, while I can take out the odd frigate with my current loadout, I'm screwed other situations, specifically, the last mission of final fury. Can't deal enough dps to the guardians. So great advice; thanks! :)

UPDATE: I've just managed to scrounge up 4 CIGs :D Looking for some more, but looking at their stats, it appears that just 4 of them deals higher dps than 8 HEPTS :D

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Post by DeadlyDarkness » Sat, 2. Jun 12, 23:09

You want 2 GCs on each side, CIG up front, flak on top and then EBCs in the back. This allows for the flak to fire constantly and if you so choose you can fire a large barrage from the front of the ship (generally good for picking off corvettes). The turret layout of the shrike means that both GCs can fire forward if you are also slightly below the target, so always approach in this manner. Lastly, if you want to avoid fragging your own fighters use eclipses, they have high shield strength and are also faster than you, so you can send them ahead outside of the range of your flak screen. I would however advise against using fighters in normal combat scenarios unless you aren't afraid to lose them.

General combat tactics for me when fighting in xenon space for example is to first position myself in a quiet area, then start with the Qs as they die quickly and are a menace. If you are getting attacked by fighters make sure to roll the ship so the turrets get the chance to fire on as many targets as possible. I also carry with me 4 spare FAA to put in the sides in case there are nothing but fighters. In operation Final Fury you will want to be doing this a lot, avoiding the large ships until you pummel all the fighters.

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Post by Triaxx2 » Sun, 3. Jun 12, 01:25

All things considered, including my own love affair with the Shrike, it's not my first choice for an Operation Final Fury ship. It can be done, but the Guardians have lots of shields, and they take a while to knock down. Particularly with GC. Meanwhile the Shrike can take quite a beating. I prefer something mounting PPC's instead. Like a Phoenix, or Ray.
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CaptObvious
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Post by CaptObvious » Sun, 3. Jun 12, 08:10

DeadlyDarkness wrote:You want 2 GCs on each side, CIG up front, flak on top and then EBCs in the back. This allows for the flak to fire constantly and if you so choose you can fire a large barrage from the front of the ship (generally good for picking off corvettes). The turret layout of the shrike means that both GCs can fire forward if you are also slightly below the target, so always approach in this manner. Lastly, if you want to avoid fragging your own fighters use eclipses, they have high shield strength and are also faster than you, so you can send them ahead outside of the range of your flak screen. I would however advise against using fighters in normal combat scenarios unless you aren't afraid to lose them.

General combat tactics for me when fighting in xenon space for example is to first position myself in a quiet area, then start with the Qs as they die quickly and are a menace. If you are getting attacked by fighters make sure to roll the ship so the turrets get the chance to fire on as many targets as possible. I also carry with me 4 spare FAA to put in the sides in case there are nothing but fighters. In operation Final Fury you will want to be doing this a lot, avoiding the large ships until you pummel all the fighters.
If he installs MARS and keeps enough weapons in the ship to fill all of the slots all of the time, MARS will switch out his weapons automatically based on what will hit best.

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Morkonan
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Re: My first M7...friendly fire ftl

Post by Morkonan » Sun, 3. Jun 12, 16:05

statikregimen wrote:...So, my question is if there are any tactics or skills I can develop, to help avoid friendly fire, or is this just something I'll have to put up with from now on?..
Well, for one - Practice apologizing alot.

But, that won't help your reputation any. So, the next suggestion is don't get involved in a furball firefight in a heavily populated sector. If possible, take the fight to the fringes. If not, get a couple of shots off at your enemy (enough to tick them off) and jump to a gate in-sector that is far enough from the enemy to allow you to move to a less crowded area before they catch up to you.

Or, you could try using lots of missiles instead of guns. Switch your turrets off so they don't fire at anything (Or put them on missile defense.) and use your main guns and missiles when in heavy traffic.

Just curious, but what sort of enemies are you engaging? Pirates? If you manage to kill them off, you'll get a little bit of a rep boost for the race that owns that sector.

Otherwise, be prepared to do a few missions to rebuild your reputation after accidentally 'spoding the Boron Emergency Repair service vehicle into small unidentifiable parts..

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Post by Triaxx2 » Sun, 3. Jun 12, 18:29

Admittedly, the presence or lack of presence of a furball holds little correlation to the chances of destroying the Boron Emergency Repair service ship.

I'd say turrets on protect ship, rather than missile defense.

Also consider on entering a system, flying 5-10km above the level of traffic. Not only will this alleviate accidents, but it will also reduce collisions. And any sufficiently militant aggressor will pursue you and get out of the line of civilians as well. Plus those that you simply wish to engage can have their attention attracted with missile shots.
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statikregimen
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Post by statikregimen » Mon, 4. Jun 12, 01:35

Thanks for all the great replies! Really appreciated <3

Things are going better now...I've been adjusting my tactics a bit, using my fighters more, whilst keeping my distance when there's friendlies about. Put some CIGs on the mains, for now, to do some more respectable dps to the bigger ships. I want to try some of these other loadout suggestions, but I need to spend some time fortifying my income so I can afford it.

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Post by Honved » Mon, 4. Jun 12, 15:24

I've had decent luck with slapping a set of cheap Phase Repeater Guns in the turrets, and setting them on "Protect ship" orders. Any pesky fighters that come after it get chewed up quickly, and the high projectile speed means almost no Friendly Fire issues (it's NEVER "friendly fire" when it's heading in your direction). HEPT is fine for dealing damage, but the projectiles are way too slow to hit most M4/M5 targets; you're more likely to hit whatever's chasing them.

Flak is a bit too indiscriminate for my liking, and I only use that if I'm heading into a Xenon sector or the middle of a Ka'ak cluster, where the more things that I hit, the better.

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Post by zazie » Mon, 4. Jun 12, 16:49

@statikregimen: Please take into consideration the use of Missiles. Your Shrike can use a great variety of missiles - some of them can really help to keep enemy ships at a safe distance.

Astonishingly, during a war between Races or even a Xenon invasion, it is not too difficult to collect missiles. I usually use a fast and well shielded TS (=>Mistral Freighter, not the Superfreighter) or an TM for that task. I make it collect those missiles waiting to be picked-up out of the reach of the big ships (those are dangerous because they attack multiple targets at once). The fighters during a war normally head for other targets than a freighter. So you might get an important stream of missiles ready to be fired at the enemy.

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Post by Honved » Mon, 4. Jun 12, 18:01

As for missles, sending in a fast M5 with a decent amount of M-class freight capacity to "collect wares in sector" after the combattants have moved on can net a not-so-small fortune in minutes. It's far more effective OOS, where the fighter won't circle the object for 10 minutes until the goods "expire". My "gofer" (go 'fer this, go 'fer that) has easily paid for itself 30 times over.

A TS can be sent on "collect ware" orders to get a specific "bulk" good that's been dropped.

[ I recall my first M6, a Centaur, where I loaded the turrets with single PRGs. My first fight, a ****-load of Xenon N's showed up, with a couple of "L"s for added firepower. The Ns started vanishing behind me, and then I noticed a steady stream of fire coming in "over my shoulder" and chewing steadily into the L I was chasing. "That's some accurate shooting" I thought, then realized it was my own turret doing a number on it. ]

statikregimen
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Post by statikregimen » Wed, 13. Jun 12, 06:26

Just giving a quick update, because I figure this might help other newbies in the future, who may run into this problem.

I've updated the Shrike's loadout as suggested above by Master of the Blade and that ship just flat out rips now:

CIGs in the mains
FAA in the up/down
GC on the left/right
HEPT on the back

I've also purchased a Deimos in the mean time, which I have CIGs up front and FAAs all around, except for HEPT in the back. It's also a very heavy hitter, in it's own right. It's been my daily driver now, for about a week. Suppose I'd use some PSGs, if I decide to go tear apart an enemy sector, but for just grinding missions (which I enjoy), it's perfect.

Just keep stations out of range, focus the mains on any big targets, and let the FAAs turn the fighter swarms into debris.

The Shrike, with a wing of Discos + my shiney new Springblossom (aptly named Springy Dingy) are now on sector patrol, as I've set up shop in the two unknown sectors by Unholy Descent. Nice and secluded, but not too far from a few EQ docks, shipyards and other useful goodies. Building up a few racks of PPCs in preparation to bring on my first M2 to the rapidly growing fleet (few days probably, and going for a Boreas).

TL;DR - what I've learned from all of this:
1) Buy your loadout before you buy your ship, that way you're not flying a way under powered ship, with clumsy weapons that will blow their load all over everything in range.

2) Keep stations out of range of your guns *DOH* I've shot soooo many stations this way...You have to pay attention - display it on one of your monitors, so you can keep an eye on the distance w/o having it selected as target

3) Missiles are your friend. Collect them and use them

4) If your ship has a hanger bay, use it, as the smaller ships wont take all week chasing that last darned disco all over the effing sector to complete the mission.

Mrreg
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Post by Mrreg » Wed, 13. Jun 12, 07:30

I'm glad to hear you're learning and having fun. I'm always learning or trying something new in X. That's probably why it's so fun for a lot of us. Lots to do.

statikregimen
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Post by statikregimen » Wed, 13. Jun 12, 08:04

Mrreg wrote:I'm glad to hear you're learning and having fun. I'm always learning or trying something new in X. That's probably why it's so fun for a lot of us. Lots to do.
This is one of the best games I've ever played!! I used to play Eve which also ranked right up there, but was too demanding of my time. This game is perfect.

I took this screenie a few minutes ago:

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/54180 ... 32877FF7F/

The shot its self isn't spectacular, but notice the perfect circle of destruction on the radar :D

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