[AP] Hyperion Vanguard + fighter question

Mrreg · Post by **Mrreg** » Mon, 11. Jun 12, 05:22

After reading people give the Hyperion lots of love, I finally went out and captured one for myself. I RE'd it and then built another so I can have them on demand. I just started playing with it and have to say it's amazing. I went out and gathered up the overtuning crates I knew of to make it even more ridiculous.

This has created a problem for me as my standby fighters have been Notus Haulers since they're such a great balance of speed, shields, and punch. Since the Hyperion now goes 202m/s, I need a couple fighters to carry that can keep up with it. Looking at stats on paper, the Solano or Mamba look like the best bets, especially if I can get my hands on an Advanced Mamba and RE/build it.

Does anyone have any suggestion between those two or any other suggestions? I've not spent a lot of time using different fighters, so I'm short on experience with them.

EDIT: It looks like the Advanced Mamba is only available as a Strong Arms reward. As I understand it, that's not available in AP, right?

2nd Edit: Realized my speed was wrong. The Hype goes 202 m/s right now. Edited my original statement above.

Catra · Post by **Catra** » Mon, 11. Jun 12, 05:37

you can buy advanced versions from the shipyards now.

not sure where the advanced mamba is though :X

EDIT: nevermind, seems the advanced mamba is one of the few ships which didnt make it to the shipyards.

but yes, you are right in that you cannot get the corporation rewards anymore.

what you can get though is the advanced perseus

ConCorDian · Post by **ConCorDian** » Mon, 11. Jun 12, 16:01

Adv Mamba is not in game (as yet at least) as far as im aware. Notus Haulers are my person favorite ship to use as well but for ships that can go 210 or more that starts to cut down your options quite a bit.

Solano you already mentioned. its quick, packs a punch especially for an M4 and has the 75Mj sheilds more commonly found on M3's, thing is it is an M4 and only has those 6 forward weapons and no turret, cutting down just how much punch it has compaired to M3's. its also the cheapest option.

Asp, its another M4+ same as the Solano and for all on paper its inferior to the Solano in most ways ive always found it to work really well. it has largly the same pro's and cons to the Solano except it does only have 25Mj's sheilds.

Mamba, standard mamba is still fast enough to keep up with the you Hype, has the firepower of the M3 but no turret. im not a big fan of this option myself but its there for you to consider.

Adv Perseus, from a role play point of veiw i like this the best. has all your M3 pro's with the 8 forward weapons, back turret, its got 100Mj sheilding which above average.. but more importantly, it will look the part parked up on the sides of your Hype.

as a little wild card choice, Venti... yes its slower, 195m/s but take into consideration its 10 forward weapons, back turret, 100Mj sheilds and larger cargohold over the Perseus... its a really good ship, yeh you might need to slow down a bit to let it catch up but in combat situations where you need to deploy your fighters and fly your Hype you could find yourself slowing down a bit to engage ships anyways due to the slower turnrate of the M6 class. so dont discount a slightly slower ship purely on its speed alone.

the ultimate weapon would probably be the Spitfyre... nothing in its target range to engage can outpace it and nothing capible of killing it can catch it, they are hard to come by and equip but as a personal 2 ship escort for yourself they are the best thing there imo. that said imo these ships are overkill and i think they are one of the biggest OPd ships in the game and for that reason i never use them.

Troyminator · Post by **Troyminator** » Mon, 11. Jun 12, 17:14

I have to second the Adv. Perseus choice, as that's what I use on my Hyp. They are fast, decently shielded and have a pretty good weapon selection, including PBEs and EBCs. They do look oddly like dolphins (kind of wish they'd stuck with the standard Perseus model, myself, as it looks a bit like a mini Hyperion. Oh well...)

Typee · Post by **Typee** » Mon, 11. Jun 12, 17:24

I have to be with ConCorDian on this : having Ventis is probably worth losing 13 m/s.
Plus they are a blast to pilot if you need to jump into one of your fighters for surgical strikes.
Venti is like the space Ferrari.

ConCorDian · Post by **ConCorDian** » Mon, 11. Jun 12, 18:14

Troyminator wrote:(kind of wish they'd stuck with the standard Perseus model, myself, as it looks a bit like a mini Hyperion. Oh well...)

+1. well i actually prefer the Sentinal model, it looks more angry and aggressive but with the sleek Paranid Styling... but out of all the Perseus models its probably the worst imo.

with the Perseus, i can understand the "fat" model being used for the Vanguard and even the Adv... but the Raider? as i said the Vanguard i kind of see it as the big armour heavy clad knight standing as the Vanguard of your medeival army. the Adv model as well to an extreme, gives them more space to include all the Pro's that the Adv model needs... but i always see a Raider as this fast moving, agile almost swords play flair ship... its like seeing a fat guy as a gymnast, yeh it can happen, yes they can be good, but for some sad reason it just dosn't look right!!

ReggieReddog · Post by **ReggieReddog** » Mon, 11. Jun 12, 19:55

I enjoy Spitfyres, but I can't recommend tuning their speed all the way up. They tend to smash themselves more easily going that fast.

Mrreg · Post by **Mrreg** » Mon, 11. Jun 12, 20:07

Thanks for the input, everyone!

I'll have to try out the Venti and Adv. Perseus. After seeing the limited weapon selection for the Solano, my interest in them is diminished. For my personal wingmen, I'd like something a little more flexible in weapon options. Another thing I thought of since my initial post is the Aamon. I RE'd it as soon as I got my HQ and then promptly forgot about it. I could build a couple of those, which essentially look like super Notuses that go up to 180m/s and can use EMPCs.

The Spitfyre definitely looks nice, but also quite OP. I haven't yet figured out whether I ever want to get any Terran ships or not. At the moment, I'm maintaining good relations with the Commonwealth races and Pirates, but using Xenon, Terran, and ATF as targets when I want to blow things up. I'm also considering starting to get mean to the Yaki. I'm neutral with them now, but I need someone I can board without feeling like I have to build the rep back up with afterward. I think I'll save playing with Terran toys for when I have my boarding ops more practiced or eventually just do a Terran start.

I guess I've got some fighters to try out!

ajax34i · Post by **ajax34i** » Mon, 11. Jun 12, 20:37

The thing with M3 fighters is that some of the stats that don't usually show up in web-based databases actually make a big difference.

Namely, laser recharge and laser bank capacity, and agility / turn rate.

For a personal M3 (which the 2 that you put on the Hyperion may be), you want a nimble fighter (not necessarily fast).

And then, if you're thinking of the cargo space as "bonus", don't. Your M3 will have to carry:

- enough space for its shields and weapons (25 MJ's are 10 each, HEPT-equivalent weapons are 6-8 each x 10)

- ammo, if you're using EBC's.

- 50 m3 of Mosquitoes (probably more) for missile defense (important in AP).

- as many e-cells as possible, not just for jumping out, but more importantly for turbo boosting in and out of range.

Often the weapons and shields will eat up 120 m3, leaving very little space for ammo and missiles. Very little. It's especially a problem if the M3 in question doesn't have an outstanding laser recharge rate, as you'll have to use EBC's instead of HEPTs and will eat through ammo crates like candy.

ConCorDian · Post by **ConCorDian** » Tue, 12. Jun 12, 11:11

ajax34i wrote:The thing with M3 fighters is that some of the stats that don't usually show up in web-based databases actually make a big difference.

Namely, laser recharge and laser bank capacity, and agility / turn rate.

if this is an issue get this it includes pretty much everything for the ships bar Hull ratings, good thing about the models veiwer is you get to see the model itself... gives you a true concept of scale as well as power (NOTE: if its for AP you want to see youll need to create a mod folder for files from the Addon folder in order for the veiwer to pick them up).
or i use Roguey's database that includes them all as well. and has a really nice compair feature added in which a lot dont, as well as he has added in another feature for you to work out how fast your ships would be with the Pandora Crates... solves the whole problem of lack of info!!

Mrreg · Post by **Mrreg** » Tue, 12. Jun 12, 19:28

Thanks, ConCorDian. I hadn't seen the model viewer before. I do like Roguey's site. He seems to have put a lot of work into it.

Thraxwhirl · Post by **Thraxwhirl** » Thu, 14. Jun 12, 16:00

Catra wrote:you can buy advanced versions from the shipyards now.

not sure where the advanced mamba is though :X

EDIT: nevermind, seems the advanced mamba is one of the few ships which didnt make it to the shipyards.

but yes, you are right in that you cannot get the corporation rewards anymore.[/url]

Whilst the following info is no good to you if you're already running a game, it might interest you to look into this the next time you fancy starting over:

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=321747

Though it's still only a beta, and I have found an issue with it that causes me problems, Black147's mod brings all the plots and missions of X3TC back to life and into X3AP.

Hopefully it won't be too long into the future before all the bugs are ironed out, which means(presumably, though I haven't progressed that far), that you could once again complete the Split Corporation plotline and get access to the Advanced Mamba. Rev. Engineer that and you should happily be spewin' 'em out like they're goin' outta fashion.

ConCorDian · Post by **ConCorDian** » Thu, 14. Jun 12, 17:01

or if he wants it he could simply install the cheat scripts and cheat himself whatever he wants!!!

thing is that defeats the purpose... questions in here are more based for vanilla games, or at least vanilla queries... regardless of the question there is probably a script for that over in the S&M section... so for all yes your idea does have merit in a way it doesn't belong here... all my replies to posts i base on whats available in the vanilla game

ConCorDian · Post by **ConCorDian** » Thu, 14. Jun 12, 17:12

ajax34i wrote:The thing with M3 fighters is that some of the stats that don't usually show up in web-based databases actually make a big difference.

Namely, laser recharge and laser bank capacity, and agility / turn rate.

For a personal M3 (which the 2 that you put on the Hyperion may be), you want a nimble fighter (not necessarily fast).

And then, if you're thinking of the cargo space as "bonus", don't. Your M3 will have to carry:

- enough space for its shields and weapons (25 MJ's are 10 each, HEPT-equivalent weapons are 6-8 each x 10)

- ammo, if you're using EBC's.

- 50 m3 of Mosquitoes (probably more) for missile defense (important in AP).

- as many e-cells as possible, not just for jumping out, but more importantly for turbo boosting in and out of range.

Often the weapons and shields will eat up 120 m3, leaving very little space for ammo and missiles. Very little. It's especially a problem if the M3 in question doesn't have an outstanding laser recharge rate, as you'll have to use EBC's instead of HEPTs and will eat through ammo crates like candy.

see i was going to ignore this one... aren't you being a bit on the extreme side? for one i have been playing AP for what, almost 400hrs, and my m3 fighter carries 20 mossies, i fit my weapons and sheilds yes, if i need amo then yes i carry that too, but keep in mind that ammo based weapons take up far less space than laser based weapons in order to at least compensate for the fact you need the ammo... albeit not totally compensate. as for ECells, yes right at the start i do carry them in my fighter, but later i dont, for 1 i do not use the turbo booster, the AI doesn't so i wont give myself an unfair advantage!! and any jumping i do i will do from my carrier once i have one, so in this queries case it would all be done via the Hype.

what your saying is that you pretty much wont touch a fighter with less than what? 200 cargo space? your missing out on some excellent ships...

ajax34i · Post by **ajax34i** » Thu, 14. Jun 12, 18:43

No, I'm just saying that I'm not ignoring the cargo space as a statistic, when evaluating a fighter, especially if the laser recharge on it is low, and it's obvious that it's meant to use ammo-based weaponry rather than HEPTs.

Venti vs. Nova Raider - I prefer the Nova.R. The Venti is expensive, slower to turn, and has the same laser regen rate as the Nova.R but with 10 lasers to support (it's definitely a mostly-EBC ship).

The Adv.Perseus is as nimble as the Nova.R, and faster, but with less cargo space and unable to fit flamethrowers. It's better laser recharge could probably support a 4-HEPT 4-EBC combo, thus reducing the need for so much ammo in the hold.

So, bottom line, the 160 m3 isn't too bad, but it definitely enters into the equation when compared to Nova.R's 216 m3 cargo.

Mrreg · Post by **Mrreg** » Thu, 14. Jun 12, 20:32

Thraxwhirl wrote: Whilst the following info is no good to you if you're already running a game, it might interest you to look into this the next time you fancy starting over:

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=321747

Though it's still only a beta, and I have found an issue with it that causes me problems, Black147's mod brings all the plots and missions of X3TC back to life and into X3AP.

Hopefully it won't be too long into the future before all the bugs are ironed out, which means(presumably, though I haven't progressed that far), that you could once again complete the Split Corporation plotline and get access to the Advanced Mamba. Rev. Engineer that and you should happily be spewin' 'em out like they're goin' outta fashion.

I have been considering a new start, even though I'm enjoying my game. I really would like to play the TC plots, but since I started with AP, I don't know if I can go backward and not be frustrated with the lack of the varied improvements in AP. What kind of problems is it causing? I'll have to browse through that thread. Thanks.

ConCorDian · Post by **ConCorDian** » Thu, 14. Jun 12, 20:53

fair enough, i get where your coming from with your arguement... but depending how you look at it,

as a playership: i prefer the Venti, not only is it that 5m/s faster, but its got a 6.3m/s/s better acceleration to boot. yes its not as agile, but you trade that off with the 25Mj extra sheild and the better speed and accel i find it better for my style of play. you take into account i dont carry ECells in my fighters as all of my fighters are carrier based. and i dont carry as many Mossies as you i still have more cargobay space for missiles than you. i also do not use Ammo based weapons much, i fit my personal Venti with 6 PRG's on the wings and 4 HEPT on the top fin, with a PAC in the rear turret. so i have only used roughly 110 units of my cargobay, leaving 90 for ordinance, which i normally carry Thunderbolts, Wasps and Silkworms.

as an NPC fighter... i dont need ECells as again my fighters are all carrier based... it has heavy sheilding and more heavy weapons for OOS combat...

for me it sounds like a win win.

JackKiller2266 · Post by **JackKiller2266** » Sun, 17. Jun 12, 12:07

i am buying every EEMPC i can get my hands on so, when i get my PHQ up and running i can RE the Pitfyre and produce a fleet of those guys,they work well in OOS combat for my, fully kited Max Shields(3 25MJ), Weaps. (8 EEPMC + 2 EMPC)(80 total for 8 EEMPC, 2 EPMC, 3 25MJ) Engine, Rudder, Cargo, leaves me with 132 cargo space left for goodies, i have two of them OOS patrolling with a Heavy Nemesis and they work great, and i am using one as my Personal fighter( i have killed about 7 M6's with it since i got the thing, no missiles just lasers), and i can say i love it and when i get my own Hyp. i will carrier base two of them all the time

ConCorDian · Post by **ConCorDian** » Sun, 17. Jun 12, 13:29

see im trying to do something similar, but im using the #CEFA, trying to fill it with is standard 2 25mj sheild, 2 empc's back, but having 4 PMa/AML forward... other than that just having the ammo, no missiles, no ECells,

it goes against how i normally play but these things are more as part of my role play, i wanna create a fleet of 5 Ryu with 11 Cefas each, (spare slot for recovery of drones) this would become my Drone Fleet. each Ryu carrying 5000 FD Mk2's and 11 Cefa "command drones" which would have the ability to punch through capital ships pretty effectivly. thing is collecting up 220 PMa/AML's aint easy, especially since i can only get them via boarding and drops... (terrans hate me

) they will hate me more once im completed and i jump in 5 Ryu, 55 #Cefa and 25000 FDMk2's into a sector

JackKiller2266 · Post by **JackKiller2266** » Sun, 17. Jun 12, 13:32

lol, i feel sry for the sector that you decide to invade