CAG Traders (PHQ) disobeying rules! (SOLVED AT LONG LONG LONG LAST)

Coreblimey · Post by **Coreblimey** » Tue, 12. Jun 12, 05:24

I have 5 CAG traders hombased to my PHQ. I want them to stock up ready to build an Aran. Using the Dock Manager I have set each ware limit to a little over what is required. It all started off quite smoothly each trader toddling off to get his order. Eventually the stock was looking good but suddenly everything went haywire. They started entering forbidden sectors and also no sooner had one freighter deposited it's wares at the HQ then another one was off selling the self same wares elsewhere.
Now I know CLS & CAG both sell & buy wares of the homebase but I assumed that was for stations that actually had an end product. Have I assumed wrongly or is there something amiss here?

Mrreg · Post by **Mrreg** » Tue, 12. Jun 12, 06:22

Hey Coreblimey, I was having trouble with something really similar that I asked about here: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=323724 (linked so you can read on the specific problems I was having, if you're interested)

I spent a at least 5 or 6 hours of real time trying to get them to behave at the PHQ and just couldn't figure it out. Mine weren't going into blacklisted sectors, but they would get fixated on buying microchips and computer components if I had them set to "shopper" mode. In trader mode, they would buy everything, but they'd also sell off Ore, Teladianium, and Silicon before I reached the needed levels. I've given up for now and just stocked up with some "buy at best price" until I can build my own supply complexes and use CLS to bring the appropriate wares to the PHQ.

kgkosio · Post by **kgkosio** » Tue, 12. Jun 12, 06:22

You are better off using the Buy best price command for traders for collecting resources for the PHQ.

Coreblimey · Post by **Coreblimey** » Tue, 12. Jun 12, 06:51

Thanks for the replies. Yes it does seem like using 'best buy' is the best solution. However, wouldn't that mean keeping an eye on them so that they don't overstock or will they obey the Dock Manager's limits.
I was torn between building my own complex (got everything worked out on paper) or buying more capital ships.
Stupidly, I put my PHQ in the wrong sector (US east of Legend's Home). I dumped it there thinking 'that's a nice secure place to have it'. And it is. THEN I scanned the asteroids! Oh dear! I wonder if i can squeeze the PHQ back into the TL and find a sector with better 'roid yield!
As if!

Mrreg · Post by **Mrreg** » Tue, 12. Jun 12, 07:03

Coreblimey, I put my HQ in the same place. I have used all the asteroids in the sector for my missile manufacturing

I think there is a mod that lets you repack the HQ, but I'm not sure about that.

I suspect the CAGs have such trouble at the PHQ because it doesn't treat resources and products the same as a factory or complex. I'm not a scripter myself, so I haven't gone code diving to see if that's the case, but it's the only thing I could come up with. As for the "buy at best price" option, yes, I've had to watch them and tell them to stop to keep them from spending all my HQs credits and overfilling it. That's why I eventually want to set up my own supply chain and have CLS pilots bring the goods. They can be programmed to fill up to certain amounts and such. The good news is that there are a lot of decent asteroids within 10 jumps of that sector and experienced CLS pilots will use a jump drive.

I guess, I'd rather have me PHQ in a secluded, easily defended sector. At least you know the Xenon migrations will have to go through Aladna Hill and Legend's Home's decent military defenses before getting to you. Also, being able to utilize the 450% sun in Akeela's Beacon isn't bad.

Edit: One other idea I've had is capping and recycling ships. Supposedly, all ships are built with the same ratios of wares and recycling yields those needed ratios. Since I have marines in need of combat training, I might start capping stuff like Yaki TLs to feed to my HQ.

Coreblimey · Post by **Coreblimey** » Tue, 12. Jun 12, 08:38

I haven't quite worked it out yet but there is a possibility that by using all the silicon 'roids in that sector that I may be able to build a complex with just enough energy cell output to keep the complex running. Unfortunately there might just be a slight shortfall instead in which case I'll need a trader to top up the complex when needed and the HQ will have to send out for the required ecells.
I want to finish this game in vanilla so scripts are out I'm afraid. On my next start I will definitely be using some scripts or mods but only where I think they are justified. After all I don't want to spoil the game for myself.

cezarip · Post by **cezarip** » Thu, 14. Jun 12, 10:44

Are you playing AP or TC?

CAGs at PHQ or HUB behave differently from a station.

If I would be you I'd use the HUB. Have the CAGs based on the HUB and use external logistics to transfer the goods to the PHQ. Set the prices at the HUB as low as possible to make the CAGs go buy the cheapest wares. That's what I do.

You may also consider removing 1-2 CAGs. If they are too many they will try to sell the products. Which is not bad since with the prices at min they will go for the highest bidder which will usually give you a nice profit. Ah, and in the CAG menu you can setup the levels where it will buy the ware and sell (I have mine at 20% and at 100% for sell).

Scoob · Post by **Scoob** » Thu, 14. Jun 12, 13:07

Hi,

I've used CAG's at my PHQ in both TC and AP. I set them to buy weapons and shields to equip any ships I...erm, aquire.

The key with CAG's is to give them the correct duty. I.e. I have a "missile" CAG whose product list is all the missiles I use. He is set as a "shopper" so he only buys the items in his "buy" list. I have other CAGs buying weapons and others buying Energy Cells.

I have further CAGs who are set as "Salesmen" who I get selling all the random crap I collect, dump at the HQ, but don't want.

To earn money I even have CLS trader going round buying Ore where it's available at the rock-bottom 50cr price and bringing it back to by HQ. From there I have further CAGs selling Ore for 200cr - a nice profit.

The CAG/CLS/EST settings can be confusing to start with - I was helping a friend configure his just last week. Stick with it however as they are great once trained up.

CAGs etc. can get a little fussy when at Docks (HQ, Trade Station etc.) as opposed to a factory. Usually they just need to be promoted a few ranks before they perform well. I would recommend however downloading the lastest, non-signed, version of the scripts from Lucike - you'll find a thread on the scripting forum.

Scoob.

Coreblimey · Post by **Coreblimey** » Thu, 14. Jun 12, 16:13

cezarip wrote:Are you playing AP or TC?

CAGs at PHQ or HUB behave differently from a station.

If I would be you I'd use the HUB. Have the CAGs based on the HUB and use external logistics to transfer the goods to the PHQ. Set the prices at the HUB as low as possible to make the CAGs go buy the cheapest wares. That's what I do.

You may also consider removing 1-2 CAGs. If they are too many they will try to sell the products. Which is not bad since with the prices at min they will go for the highest bidder which will usually give you a nice profit. Ah, and in the CAG menu you can setup the levels where it will buy the ware and sell (I have mine at 20% and at 100% for sell).

I'm playing AP.
I do now only have three CAG traders instead of he original five. This was not a matter of choice though! 2 of my traders wandered into a blacklisted sector (GE) and were destroyed. (Hence the disobeying of the rules part of the subject title).
When I first set them up I did notice they were all heading for the same ore mine in Montalaar. However they all came back with some ore, although of varying amounts, so I guess the mine must have been fully stocked and was still cheaper or as cheap as my buying price.
I have also noticed that one of my traders, sent out by the PHQ to buy microchips, came back with just a single chip!

Aragosnat · Post by **Aragosnat** » Thu, 14. Jun 12, 19:31

Also you can set resourse limits too. The material needed will not fill up the 500 k space of HQ but, you can easily set it to have just enough for an Aran. Below is for AP I asume it works for TC too have yet to RE one of my 13 Arans.

Spoiler

Show

Mat Space Taken / Amount needed
Cloth Rimes 3,904 1,952
Computer Component 1,952 1,952
Crystals 7,808 1,952
E-Cell 187,505 187,505
Microchips 7,808 3,904
Ore 62,472 7,809
Quantum Tubes 9,760 1,952
Rastar Oil 23,424 3,904
Silicon Wafers 105,408 5,856
Teladianium 29,280 5,856
Total Space Taken 439,321 of 500,000 (hope HQ holds 500 k like in tc)
Also make sure you have 55,314,028 credits in HQ as well.... Dang organic workers.

And remember under commands Dock Waremanager. When selecting a reasource you can limit how much. Has to be done for each reasorse which is a pain.. But, well worth it if you want to store shields and gun for yer ships. Argh!

Coreblimey · Post by **Coreblimey** » Thu, 14. Jun 12, 20:46

Aragosnat wrote:Also you can set resourse limits too. The material needed will not fill up the 500 k space of HQ but, you can easily set it to have just enough for an Aran. Below is for AP I asume it works for TC too have yet to RE one of my 13 Arans.

Good timing OR bad, whichever way you decide to look at it! I worked all this out about one and a half hours ago. My Aran was finished in the RE dept. earlier this morning.
What I have done is rounded up the resources to the nearest 1000. This is still below the max. storage level and leaves enough resource to build a small fighter & enough room for shields.

TTD · Post by **TTD** » Fri, 15. Jun 12, 00:23

is a possibility that by using all the silicon 'roids in that sector that I may be able to build a complex with just enough energy cell output to keep the complex running.

Try using a complex calculator such as the one in my link,by Xadrian.
There are online calculators too,but I do not have the links for those.

Aragosnat · Post by **Aragosnat** » Sat, 16. Jun 12, 18:16

Coreblimey wrote:
Aragosnat wrote:Also you can set resourse limits too. The material needed will not fill up the 500 k space of HQ but, you can easily set it to have just enough for an Aran. Below is for AP I asume it works for TC too have yet to RE one of my 13 Arans.
Good timing OR bad, whichever way you decide to look at it! I worked all this out about one and a half hours ago. My Aran was finished in the RE dept. earlier this morning.
What I have done is rounded up the resources to the nearest 1000. This is still below the max. storage level and leaves enough resource to build a small fighter & enough room for shields.

Hehe. Well. You could say it is now for everyone. But, yeah I rounded up and then some for when and if I do RE and build an Aran. As I will more then likely awlays have a ship that has XL storage at the PHQ.

Coreblimey · Post by **Coreblimey** » Sat, 16. Jun 12, 19:14

TTD wrote:Try using a complex calculator such as the one in my link,by Xadrian.
There are online calculators too,but I do not have the links for those.

The problem with Xadrian's Calculator is that I have been unable to put mines in a complex. and the OCCC that I use is for TC and does not have the asteroid yields for the US east of Legend's Home. In fact it doesn't have the sector full stop. I've been unable to find a calculator that caters for AP specifically.
However I have now built a complex in Gunne's Crusade but it only has the smallest product factory sizes because I had used most of the silicon 'roids for my weed/booze complex.
But that doesn't rule out building a smaller complex in US. If I leave out Rimes, Raster & Teladianium and concentrate on the tech products, I'm sure the 'roid yields will be more than enough to enable me to build a closed loop.
Thanks for the tips anyway. Any advice is always welcome.

EDIT:
You may be wondering why I am intending just using the tech factories, especially when they all use silicon? Well I thought by leaving out the other 3 facts. I hope to get away with using an SPP L instead of XL, thus reducing the number of crystal fabs required which in turn will require fewer Food & Bio facts. to make it run. This should then leave enough silicon to produce the Techs.

TTD · Post by **TTD** » Sat, 16. Jun 12, 20:29

Latest version of Xadrian's does indeed have the AP maps/stations.
version 1.4.3 is the one I am using.
You can choose at the start whether you want it for AP or TC.
Go to Edit\preferences and select.
It has the sector you metion and lists the roid yields.

There was a windows exe version that someone posted in the ego-thread.
This I think was TC only,so never installed it.

Coreblimey · Post by **Coreblimey** » Sat, 16. Jun 12, 21:35

@TTD thanks for that. I'm using version 1.3.1 which came with the extras in the Superbox editions. I will download the latest version shortly. (I just loaded it up to see what version I was using while I was typing this post).

Thanks again.

TTD · Post by **TTD** » Sat, 16. Jun 12, 22:04

MarvinTheMartian · Post by **MarvinTheMartian** » Sun, 17. Jun 12, 00:26

Do you have the Hub? Not sure if that's a requirement for the HQ like it is in TC.

I use the Hub as... well, a hub, a distribution hub for all my complexes etc and have CAGs there that buy goods I don't make, very effectively, then I use CLS1 to distribute those wares to trading stations, EQ docks and the HQ (with CAG ware limits set), the only thing that interfered with it is UTs which I've now set up as STs with a range just out of reach of the HQ and don't have any more issues.

As for going to blacklisted sectors, are your traders running out of energy and having to walk home? I noticed this when I was trying to be too efficient on jump energy and now find that 800 ECs (the default

) is just right for a TS.

As for having enough Silicon, I prefer to set up a crystal complex in a Si rich sector and ship those around (again using CLS1) which means a great deal of flexibility when it comes to locating your complexes. Alternatively, use CLS1 to distribute crystals from another complex that might be over-proucing them or add a Crystal Fab to an existing complex where there's excess Si.

JackKiller2266 · Post by **JackKiller2266** » Sun, 17. Jun 12, 03:28

do you think i should go to barren shores and set up an silicon mining operation there (In my game there is 38 silicon 'roids) and how many TL's do you think i would need for the job?, because i have trouble finding TL's in my game also (Except for my own MMBS) but i only have two of those

MarvinTheMartian · Post by **MarvinTheMartian** » Sun, 17. Jun 12, 03:49

JackKiller2266 wrote:do you think i should go to barren shores and set up an silicon mining operation there

That's not a yes/no question really (and perhaps a separate topic). It depends on the demand you have for energy, start small with a couple of mines (always go for L size) on the biggest yield roids and go from there.