Massive IS Rep Loss in Magnir - Complex Hub Collisions

praypold · Post by **praypold** » Mon, 13. Aug 12, 02:35

Collisions with Magnir Complex Hub when IS causing massive rep loss!!??!! Help Please!!

I have made a fortune with a Terran Protein Paste & MRE closed loop complex in Magnir. The amount of traders enroute is 2 pages long.

I have worked really hard to get Hero of Sol rep with Terrans, so do not want to really wipe it out. Since I will most likely put a hurting on it when I do the plot. I just want to grab my Wraiths for my HV... Seems innocent enough considering to whom they will be used against.

Problem being when I am IS I loose tons of rep due to collisions from the massive amounts of traders both inbound / outbound from the complex hub. I set it quite a ways above & to the east of the stations. They were built by Hephaestus Station service and the required silicon roids were towed to the West & below the complex. Should I destroy the hub and replace it to the North like I read in a forum post somewhere? The SPP is just above and on West end of the complex. The complex's tubes connecting to the SPP are really long, since Terran SPP's are so small like all of the other factories. I want to harvest the abundant ore & silicon roids to add to the plex. I would like to add Wraiths, SSC, PSP, and water factories to this complex. There are two ice mines IS so could really make a lot of water and ship it to my trading station in Venus. This would really get that part of the Terran sectors rolling economically. Also put in an open Protein Paste & MRE complex around there too. I was thinking of running CLS to feed the trading station with water produced in Magnir.

So my question is how do I fix my IS collision problem ?? I could just add mines and destroy them to tidy up the system a bit. Stay OSS which is sort of hard to add factories to the complex. So do not really want to resort to that. By the way I am "modified" due to a boo-boo save over my main save slot. So going vanilla would be out of the question due to all I have done since. Any ideas??

Thank You

StarSword · Post by **StarSword** » Mon, 13. Aug 12, 02:38

If you're already modified as you say, you might as well look into the scripts and mods forum for something like Complex Cleaner. It'll take that crazy spider-looking complex and turn it into a box with a hub sticking out of it.

Coreblimey · Post by **Coreblimey** » Mon, 13. Aug 12, 02:42

One suggestion is to temporarily close the complex to other races. When the traffic congestion has stopped, nip in sector, do your building work, leave then re-open the complex for trade.

praypold · Post by **praypold** » Mon, 13. Aug 12, 03:42

Thank you both for the replies, I like them both. Will the traders return soon after reopening the complex to trade??

Is there a link for this complex cleaner script? I also had Hephaestus build the complex thinking that would make things neater.

Coreblimey · Post by **Coreblimey** » Mon, 13. Aug 12, 04:14

You'll have no problem with traders returning. As soon as the complex is re-opened for trading, they'll come flocking back!

Complex Cleaner can be found here http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=225042

Ulan Dhor · Post by **Ulan Dhor** » Mon, 13. Aug 12, 06:52

One caveat: Ships will still ram the Borg cube that Complex Cleaner produces. See that you place it out of the way.

praypold · Post by **praypold** » Mon, 13. Aug 12, 07:13

So when you mean out of the way should I place the "Borg Cube" quite far away from anything else IS like astroids or NPC factories? I also read to place the complex's hub to the North for best results, ie no collisions and easier on traffic flow. Also should I place the complex above / below the ecliptic or on it??

Thank You

Ulan Dhor · Post by **Ulan Dhor** » Mon, 13. Aug 12, 07:19

I mean the usual precautions: Place the station out of the ecliptic (25 km above or below), behind a gate (obviously not too close to the gate, in a remote corner, away from the traffic lanes. Put the complex hub closer to the traffic lanes, but still away from them. Turn the docking clamps in the direction of the traffic lanes. Just prevent NPC ships from having any reason to come close to your stations or the hub and let the docking clamps be the first thing they approach.

Playbahnosh · Post by **Playbahnosh** » Mon, 13. Aug 12, 10:22

Oh, the Spaghetti of Doom...

How I loved that in my first real TC playthrough. I made Mines of Fortune a horrifying deathtrap that killed more traders and ships than I did

Then I started looking at the "Complex Beauty Contest" threads, and found that arranging your stations properly (even without mods and scripts) is not only good for your framerate and the health of freighters, but it's actually fun

Since then I come up with more and more elaborate designs for my complexes to make them more sleek and looking better.

Failing that, there the Complex Cleaner or the HephCorp...

praypold · Post by **praypold** » Sat, 18. Aug 12, 22:49

@Playbahnosh: or anyone else...

How would I rearrange my factories considering they are already in a complex?
I have heard destroying the hub would knock out all of the CCK's but what about resources held within the complex?

I could use the complex cleaner but found this idea intriguing. If I were to undo all of the factories would they start to loose shields as Heph Corp packs them in really close??
I also added a few facts of my own and they are certainly touching other facts. I tried to make the thing look at least presentable, but still the tubes went everywhere. Also if the hub is destroyed I will need CCKs right away to put it all together again and as the shields will be dropping like mad on a bunch of the facts correct?
I think a few CW tubes slipped into the complex do those cause issues?

Sorry for all of the questions, but the challenge of cleaning up the complex sounds interesting.

Thank you.

Coreblimey · Post by **Coreblimey** » Sat, 18. Aug 12, 23:05

Although Hephcorp puts the stations close together, none of them should be touching it's neighbour. If you want to destroy the hub so that you can move them all individually, then you shouldn't have a problem. Only the hub will be destroyed, none of the factories should lose any shielding. The CW tubes should work in perfect harmony with the Terran tubes.

Crezeh · Post by **Crezeh** » Sat, 18. Aug 12, 23:06

If you destroy your complex hub, every factory in that complex will be released into separate factories. I do believe they retain their resources.
You can clean it up with a tractor beam, though this might be difficult for factories that are colliding. Alternatively you can destroy and rebuild individual factories that are causing trouble.

When stations collide, they tend to take a small amount of damage over time. If they're placed right inside of each other I suppose the damage might be much worse. Try saving the game, destroying your complex hub, and then look at your stations' shield bars to see how quickly they drop.

Chances are it will take hours before your stations start taking hull damage, and the shields simply regenerate.

When you leave the sector, collision detection is deactivated and your stations begin to regenerate their shields, and will only resume taking damage once you re-enter the sector.

I'm not sure I understand entirely what your problem is.

Are some of your factories placed in front of NPC factories or the gate causing NPC ships to collide?

Do NPCs have to travel dangerously close to your factories to get to your complex hub?

If it's the latter, all you have to do is move your complex hub. To do so, just build another two factories without connecting them to the hub. Instead, connect them to each other to create a new hub (and place the new complex hub in a safe and open location, but within 20km of your old complex hub).

Then, use a complex construction kit to merge both these complexes. When selecting which stations to merge, make sure to select your new complex hub first, then your old one. The old one will be removed and your new, more safely placed complex hub takes over.

Sorry if that doesn't help, but as I said, I'm not quite sure exactly what problem your complex has.

praypold · Post by **praypold** » Sat, 18. Aug 12, 23:54

Thank you Crezeh & Coreblimey.

The issue I am having is NPC collisions I am presuming with the hub. I placed it somewhat far away from the bulk of the facts. There are a few astroids near the hub and the main bulk of facts, since this is Terran space perhaps collision detection is making a mess of things. I just want to jump IS without freighters being destroyed. The plex is 100km south of mid sector but there are some roids near and the hub faces the east gate. The XL SSP (built by Heph) has a very long CCK tube from it to hub and is build on the north side of the bulk of plexes. I think it could be an issue as I watch OOS seems freighters travel under/over the tube on their way to the west gate. My CAG has also traversed this route to get to the ice mines, and has sustained hull damage.
I really like the idea of adding facts and connecting the hub to a new location. Awesome tip thanks Crezeh!!
Should I put mines on the nearby roids and tow them away from the new hub location to avoid any nasties?

Thanks Again Guys!!

Crezeh · Post by **Crezeh** » Sun, 19. Aug 12, 00:20

Best to place the new complex hub in some fairly open space.
Also, place an advanced satellite in the sector (if you haven't already), and then use the video feed, (button at the top of the map screen) zoom in, and turn your new complex hub so it faces away from the complex and towards where inbound NPC ships are coming from. (using the numpad corners, 7&9 to turn vertically, 1&3 to turn horizontally.)

You don't lose rep if NPC ships crash with objects you don't own, however.
So if an NPC ship crashes into an asteroid on its way to dock/undock with your complex hub, you won't lose any rep because you aren't to blame.
Only if they collide with your hub/complex tubes/factories/ships will you lose reputation for it.

praypold · Post by **praypold** » Sun, 19. Aug 12, 00:36

@Crezeh:

Thanks for the clarification I will certainly try this out. When I first put my hub in I had no IS collisions and as more traders use it they seem to pile up right near the hub. I then jump IS and suddenly hear "you have lost recognition". So I find a clear place with easy traffic flow to place the new hub, will the NPC's still run into the CCK tube to the old facts as I presume if I understand you correctly, I should set it as far from the original as possible is that correct?
Also should I alter the placement to above the plane the original facts were located. (ie insert key) to bring the new facts higher than the old ones?

Thanks Again

Crezeh · Post by **Crezeh** » Sun, 19. Aug 12, 00:47

Basically, use the video feed technique I mentioned to make sure the complex hub is facing away from the complex, so that the complex tube it's attached to is behind it. That should prevent NPCs from crashing into the tubes.

The reason things went fine is probably because NPCs have to maneuver around the complex hub and the tubes to get to the docks, and as they spend time doing so, traffic piles up, then they have to maneuver away from each other, and eventually they start crashing into tubes. That's my best guess anyway.

As long as you make sure your complex hub is facing the right way, things should work okay. They'll only run into your facts/tubes if they have to fly past them to get to the complex hub.

As for where to place it; try and put the new hub between your complex hub and the nearest gate, 10-15km away from the complex should do. If that means moving the hub "up", then yes, that's a good idea. Combine that with turning the hub to face away from the complex and toward where the traffic comes from, and there should be no collisions.

praypold · Post by **praypold** » Sun, 19. Aug 12, 00:59

Thanks for all of the help! I have learned a lot about how complex placement should be done and hopefully others will too. So the saying goes experience is the best teacher and the combined experience pooled within these forums makes the X universe so much better!!

As a precaution I am going to tell the NPC traders to shoo (stop NPC trade), before I start this fixing of my complex issues.

Thanks Again!