X3TC: The Fenrir/Mjolinir capping issue...need a bit of input, please.

[terryokc2]

Before I start my question/s, I'd like to first say a big "Thank You" to all of you in the community who have put in the work and hours to provide guides for those of us who need them. I, for one, greatly appreciate them....as well as those of you who respond and help out with your suggestions and insights.

Ok, for those of you out there working on or have completed the Balance of Power plot line...my topic comes from the escaping pirates and their booty, the m3 Fenrir and the m4 Mjolinir. These babies contain the BP's for the Valkyrie and the Thor and one must cause the pilots to bail.

This is where I am 'stuck', so to speak...I've tried quite a number of times but can only get them to repeat about losing hull pressure or I lose them by destroying that last 4 percent of hull. I've done a bit of reading in several topics, but can only seem to find different approaches with different ships and perhaps alot of luck.

I was wondering about the morale factor...would you think this would be the deciding factor in these numerous attempts? I am hoping it would solve the riddle. For you see, from quite a good number of these attempts, I was starting from a save right before the ships take off from the pirate base. I noticed on about the third try...that these two prizes seem to head for the west gate at never the same speed on each reload. And these have ranged from 114 ms to around 188 ms. Has anyone else taken note of this? And would (crossing fingers) these speeds be a direct relationship to their morale and likelihood for bailing?

I am also hoping that I can get this one save to work, too. Both ships are cruising along at about 115 ms, but again, I've only managed to hear the hull integrity message with no bail. Oh, and btw, everything I've attempted has been with the Springblossom...2 EEMPC for the m4, dropping to 1 to tickle the shields and tap the hull....and 2 EM/AML for the m3, again dropping to the 1 EEMPC for the shield/hull tapping.

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated as this is the last plot for me to complete. (wanted to have the PHQ before it....but my combat rank has bitten me in the buttski on an occation or two with the number and size of ships in this line)

[StarSword]

Somebody here reverse-engineered the bailout code not too long ago; the link is in the links page in my signature under the heading "reverse-engineering the bailing rate". One of the factors to consider is how much more shielding you have than your target (in other words, player ships with more shields have a greater chance of causing bails).

[DrBullwinkle]

everything I've attempted has been with the Springblossom.

That's why you are having trouble. (E)EMPC's do too much damage to shields for capping a small ship like the Mjolnir.

Use a ship with PBE's. A Nova Raider is just about perfect for capping small ships, but many Commonwealth M3's or M6's will do the job.

I used an M7 with a Nova Prototype on board. The M7 made short work of the defenders at the pirate station, then I switched to the Nova to cap the fleeing ATF ships.

[Snafu_X3]

Starsword's link may be of help (to give you some insight into how bailing works), but this plot mission is the most frustrating one to complete in any X plot I've yet encountered! I /have/ done it a couple of times, but with many reloads

IME:
Most of the time the (plot) pilots generate with morale = 20, so about the top morale you get when facing a standard Commonwealth pilot. I've not yet had the pleasure of /both/ pilots generating with less

You need a ship equipped for capping. IDs are a no-no unless you're going to fry off weapons etc in GS (where the targets eventually end up). PBEs are useful here, but be aware that they do more hull damage than IREs - useful to know if you're trying for the smaller ship

Mount only 1 or 2 weapons, & turn all turrets off. If the larger target still has missiles onboard you'll need to get them to waste those missiles before you close, or you risk losing him to missile defence

After that it's mostly patience & luck.. a lot of both

Oh, & SAVE OFTEN!

[edit]You may have some luck in using flak against the M3, but the M4 is too fragile to survive a full burst. I haven't tried this method yet, but it may be worth some investigation considering its effect WRT Xenon bails

Another thing: the target ships' stats are generated when you first enter the sector (with the mission in play), so if you want different morale rates you're going to have to reload & go through the whole 'find the base' thing again However, until you /do/ find the base the fleet will follow you (eventually), so getting rid of that annoying red Pirate M1/2 (or whatever) near the UKS gate is less of a problem if you have the patience. I don't think they'll follow you through the gate though, so Pirate Alley (Maelstrom <-> Gaian Star) will still be dangerous[/edit]

[Thrasher91604]

Yep, this plot part is a PITA. I had to reload a few times until they spawned with low enough morale.

[cattafett]

Another thing: the target ships' stats are generated when you first enter the sector (with the mission in play), so if you want different morale rates you're going to have to reload & go through the whole 'find the base' thing again

thats not quite right
if you save while the pirate base is just a dot (like the civilian and taxi ships) and then approach it each time you reload you will get ships with different stats and skills/morale

for my self i used a Hyp with 8 PBE then switch to just one when the shields and the first 20% of hull is down

[Thrasher91604]

I just used the Vidar. Switching to a single EMPC once shields were down.

[terryokc2]

Another thing: the target ships' stats are generated when you first enter the sector (with the mission in play), so if you want different morale rates you're going to have to reload & go through the whole 'find the base' thing again

thats not quite right
if you save while the pirate base is just a dot (like the civilian and taxi ships) and then approach it each time you reload you will get ships with different stats and skills/morale

for my self i used a Hyp with 8 PBE then switch to just one when the shields and the first 20% of hull is down

First off...thank you to each of you providing insight.

@Starsword: I'll keep that in mind...gonna hold off on adding anything else to this game I've strung out for...well, a looong time.

@DrBullwinkle: an M7 with fighter and empty bays did cross my mind as I was having a TM follow me for my last set of saves.

@Thrasher91604: I usually buy the salvage insurance in lots of 300

@Snafu_X3 and cattafett: won't have to back up too far, I've got the auto save from the base right before I head to Maelstrom...sooo, yeah, I'll get the "beep beep" find the base part again, but will definately try the save unknown object portion.

Lastly, tho, I am a real rookie as far as capping ships...I mean, besides the 4 arans I have (no moving object with nothing firing back at you), I've only capped the first ship for this plot line......and THAT took about 12 reloads, I'm tellin ya. woof! I got sooo tired of him yelling about losing his hull integrity.

Sorry, anyway...with either PBE's or IRE's...it seems that perhaps burning off the shields as quickly as possible with a small bit of hull (20%?), then 'tapping' the ship a bit at a time (part shield/part hull) is one of the things I've read here and there. Would you concur with this assessment? Would also prolly need to read a guide on it, too, since I'm so 'green' at fighter capping. Hell, at capping in general.

[StarSword]

Yep, you got it. Just poke him until he gives up.

[terryokc2]

Yep, you got it. Just poke him until he gives up.

That shall be my approach....we shall see.

[DrBullwinkle]

with either PBE's or IRE's...it seems that perhaps burning off the shields as quickly as possible with a small bit of hull (20%?), then 'tapping' the ship a bit at a time (part shield/part hull) is one of the things I've read here and there. Would you concur with this assessment?

Yes. That is all there is to it, really.

Be sure to pause between shots for a few seconds so that the pilot has a chance to talk to you. He will usually explain why he is bailing before he does so. You must wait long enough for him to say it.

If you can fry off all of the shields and take the hull below 80% with the first shot, then it is sometimes possible to force a bail with one shot.

It may help to keep your shots brief (under 2 seconds) and to pause for 10 seconds or more between shots. Maybe.

You do not need to read any other guides, and I actually recommend that you do not read the thread that Starsword mentioned. I can only hope that LV carried out his threat to change the way capping works since that thread was written. Seriously... who decompiles code to figure out how a game works with the intention of exploiting the game?

Capping is intentionally easy enough that anybody can do it, and they NORMALLY discover how to do it by accident.

This particular mission is slightly more difficult than normal because you MUST cap those two ships in order to get their blueprints (and because their morale tends to be a bit high).

Otherwise, the mission is not as hard as some people would lead you to believe. Even so, it is one of the very few times in the game when you probably must reload.

.

[terryokc2]

with either PBE's or IRE's...it seems that perhaps burning off the shields as quickly as possible with a small bit of hull (20%?), then 'tapping' the ship a bit at a time (part shield/part hull) is one of the things I've read here and there. Would you concur with this assessment?

Yes. That is all there is to it, really.

Be sure to pause between shots for a few seconds so that the pilot has a chance to talk to you. He will usually explain why he is bailing before he does so. You must wait long enough for him to say it.

It may help to keep your shots brief (under 2 seconds) and to pause for 10 seconds or more between shots. Maybe.

You do not need to read any other guides, and I actually recommend that you do not read the thread that Starsword mentioned. I can only hope that LV carried out his threat to change the way capping works since that thread was written. Seriously... who decompiles code to figure out how a game works with the intention of exploiting the game?

Capping is intentionally easy enough that anybody can do it, and they NORMALLY discover how to do it by accident.

This particular mission is slightly more difficult than normal because you MUST cap those two ships in order to get their blueprints (and because their morale tends to be a bit high).

Otherwise, the mission is not as hard as some people would lead you to believe. Even so, it is one of the very few times in the game when you probably must reload.

.

First attempt this evening with no luck on the m4 Mjollnir....but perhaps I didn't pause enough between bursts....unfortunately, I just wrote over that save with the second start. Dang thing takes about 20 minutes to get into position to start the capping run.

Again, we shall see on this second one. (I did have a bit of a mishap with a second try of that first save right behind the fighters....thought I'd burned the hull too quickly, unfortunately the m3 tagged me on the way by as I rushed to get to the m4...when he caught up, I was toast. )

Thanks for the tips...gonna try and put them to use tomorrow evening.

[Triaxx2]

I'm partial to the brute force approach. Mamba Raider, 8xHEPT. Enter sector, close with target, slam the shields down, bite the hull and see if he bails. If not, reload and have another go around.

I find much better success in all capping endeavours by hitting them hard once or twice than while trying to nibble them down to bailing.

The alternate plan, if you don't mind being modified, is to use the NPC Bailing Add-On and crank the small ship values to max for the length of the capture process. It's not guaranteed, but it's got a much improved chance of success.

[DrBullwinkle]

I find much better success in all capping endeavours by hitting them hard once or twice than while trying to nibble them down to bailing.

Excellent point, Triaxx2, I forgot to mention that. If you can fry off all of the shields and take the hull below 80% with the first shot, then it is often possible to force a bail with one shot.

After that first shot, I don't think it matters much whether you nibble or take big bites, except that the nibbling gives you more chances for the pilot to bail.

But that first hit does make a big difference.

.

[Snafu_X3]

After that first shot, I don't think it matters much whether you nibble or take big bites, except that the nibbling gives you more chances for the pilot to bail.

Pretty much.

The key timings are mentioned in that thread you want to ignore: according to that thread

Spoiler

Show

bail chances are target hull<87.5%, cause target hull damage while no shields at 60, 120, 240, 360 & 480 seconds after the initial volley taking <target>'s shields down & hull below 87.5%

[StarSword]

So if I was to use the Truelight Seeker and hit it with some Gauss cannon shots, how well would that work?

[Snafu_X3]

So if I was to use the Truelight Seeker and hit it with some Gauss cannon shots, how well would that work?

Assuming you're replying to me, not very well. <Target> (M4 or M3 in this case), if you get the shots to connect, is likely to be vapourised in the first volley

/However/ using Flak may be an option, especially CFA (in this specific case, for bailing <target>s). As it's area-effect a) not all the shot's power will be transferred to <target> (unles you get (un)lucky), so giving you a better chance of a damaging shot rather than a destroying one & b) flak is a fast-firing weapon, so better able to track the faster & more maneuverable <target> [edit - in ships with turrets, so not the TLS [/edit]

Plus the TLS can't mount heavy shielding, doesn't fly very fast even when fully tuned, & can't use MMD so it's pretty much a goner (err.. 'scuse the pun!) in this particular scenario. It can't catch up with its targets therefore they're going to end up in GS.. & you're going to have to run the gauntlet of how to get to them (don't forget the heavy pirate defence at the GS gate) in a ship not fit for (this) purpose

Another option might be TLS mounted with PALCs, but you'll have to watch the damage carefully & there's still the speed, shielding & anti-missile problem

I regard the TLS as an excellent gun-testing platform, but pretty much useless for anything else ..or is there something in that combination you set that I'm missing?

[Triaxx2]

TLS? It's perfect for Point-Blank-Gank. 6xGC does a lot of damage fast.

But GC is a capital class weapon and very not useful for this particular event. If you've got the TLS, CIG's are an excellent option for a single sharp hit.

[StarSword]

TLS? It's perfect for Point-Blank-Gank. 6xGC does a lot of damage fast.

But GC is a capital class weapon and very not useful for this particular event. If you've got the TLS, CIG's are an excellent option for a single sharp hit.

I didn't mean shoot all six barrels. I was thinking one or two. When I try to cap ships, I usually take a fighter, bring the guy's shields down with a full blast from my HEPTs, then switch to just one HEPT and zap him until he either dies or bails.

But looking at the data, you're probably right. According to x3tc.ru, the Fenrir has 150MJ shields and 10MJ hull, and the GC does 28.54 MJ shield damage and 12.13 MJ hull per shot (meaning 171.24 MJ/72.78 MJ from the TLS). My thought was, fire the forward battery once, but unfortunately I don't know if or how extra shield damage transfers to the hull.

So yeah, it'll probably just make a mess of the Fenrir.

[Barbarossa66]

For bailing it doesn't get better than the Truelight Seeker in my opinion. 4 Starbursts and 2 PBEs work incredibly well. Fire the Starbursts and if they don't bail try to whittle them down with the PBEs. For most M4s 2 Starbursts is all you need to get all the way through shields in one shot and 4 for all M3s. Flak is also great for getting bails.

I tend to use a Springblossom for station defense missions with 4 Starbursts and 4 M/AM launchers(for the big targets). On a mission with an M6, M8, and 4-6 M4s and M3s I usually get a couple of ships to bail. The only thing to know with this method is that the target has to be engaged. Usually your first shot at an unengaged target is taken as a warning shot, so make sure you get them to engage. On Patrol Missions or sector defense missions this is usually as simple as flying around the targets for a second or two until they fire at you.