Remote Ship Control - Weapon Groups

donzi · Post by **donzi** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 02:14

Is there a way to control (at least select) weapon groups on remote ships?

This question is about X3R, what I am playing now, however also for X3TC and AP. I was going to ask about this when I was playing TC -- seemed to be the same situation as X3R.

If never piloting or customizing a ship it's not a big problem since goup 1 is all weapon slots and a work around is to just install/remove from freight. Cumbersome but doable.

However, I had a low power group active -- couple IRE/PAC and stronger stuff in other group(s).. I got the feeling that the ship was using the group I had last selected, which makes sense. Not what I needed but.. I thought maybe remote ships would default to just using all equipped weapons -- which doesn't seem to be the case from what I have observed.

IMO it would be helpful to be able to have multiple role, remote ships by using weapon groups. Particularly without a carrier to reel all my M3/4/5 ships into for fiddling with.

It's been a while since playing X2 (will be soon I think) but I can't recall if there were weapon groups or not.. If memory serves though, I am thinking there was a bit more 'features' with the remote ships and/or the monitor(s) control.

StarSword · Post by **StarSword** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 02:28

Why would you want to?

Seriously. The only reason I ever use weapon groups is to switch between all guns for killing things and one gun for trying to make things bail.

donzi · Post by **donzi** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 02:59

Seriously?

I guess to clarify, this is more apt to apply to IS ships. Obviously if I was lurking from some remote sector just playing god to everything OOS this is of little use.

I partly exposed why I would want to above. Forgot to set a proper group for a ship I had previously flown, to serve as an unpiloted damager.

If you're unable to think of any uses for it then I guess you're fleet and bankroll is magitudes larger than mine.

As it is, all combat from start and forseeable future will be by me and what fleet I have, in sector with the enemy.

In a nutshell, flexability. It's quite clear weapon groups are useful for a player ship. Seems apparent that usefulness could be realized on remote ships.

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 12:08

OK here is how if IS in X3TC and X3AP, I am unsure about X3R and cannot test it now.

Target your other ship with selected target displayed in a sub-monitor. Now right click in the sub-monitor window to make it the controlling window and left click on the target ship to make its name above the monitor go gold. Now you have control of the target ship for strafe, turn or engines etc. If you now press a weapons group number 1-4 it will apply to the target ship and not the one you are flying in personally.

OOS you cannot change weapon groups (I think). Only the weapons in the selected main and turret groups will count for OOS combat turns so the rest unselected in other groups are totally wasted OOS. The moral is that you need to set ships up properly in both installed weapons and selected groups for OOS combat. In X3AP, OOS combat may have changed that issue compared with X3TC but I do not know for sure.

donzi · Post by **donzi** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 20:11

Alan, excellent! Thank you very much for the information!

Just out of curiosity is this documented officially? I feel humbled since I'd been wanting to do this for a while in X3R and TC but never asked or figured it out AFAIK. May have years ago in TC but forgot..

I will experiment in X3R. With any luck this was present prior to TC and AP. Will edit to confirm one way or the other for X3R.

Although I mainly intended to make use of this IS it would be great if at least an existing OOS ship being monitored (collapsed monitor view IIRC, except for hired ships) might be allowed a bit of control.

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 20:35

I don't think you can view a ship OOS in a sub-monitor as the OOS sectors and objects are not rendered and you cannot target it anyway (IIRC) - or have I got that all wrong?

I found out about remote control of your IS ships using sub-monitors only by accidental mouse clicks in a target sub-monitor while playing X3TC in an advanced gamestage. I thought suddenly being able to remotely turn a newly-captured ship so that it did not run straight into your own ship when given an order to move to be a great personal discovery - only to find that a lot of others already knew about it!

StarSword · Post by **StarSword** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 20:41

Alan Phipps wrote:I don't think you can view a ship OOS in a sub-monitor as the OOS sectors and objects are not rendered and you cannot target it anyway (IIRC) - or have I got that all wrong?

Right. You can only use submonitors for remote control if you're IS.

donzi · Post by **donzi** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 20:55

Alan, that sounds right.

In TC there is exception for (at least) hired ships. I can't remember all the details but am pretty sure I was able to load it and move it to position from a sector over. Also thinking the monitor rendering was active. Some of this is maybe unrelated to me having the TL monitored. Didn't try different things -- just knew I didn't want to wait for it with IS path finding.

In TC, other ships the monitor collapses to just a window bar, no ship rendering as you mentioned. Unsure if any interaction is possible though. Frankly, I'd not figured out how the monitor helped outside of just showing a ship rendering and some other tidbits of info -- speed etc. .. and letting you know due to the window collapse, if the ship was in the same sector or not.

Well accidentally finding out is good too! hehe ..any idea if others knew from documentation or just by trying things?

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 20:59

I personally have never seen it documented outside the forum threads.

Example and here.

donzi · Post by **donzi** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 20:59

StarSword wrote:
Alan Phipps wrote:I don't think you can view a ship OOS in a sub-monitor as the OOS sectors and objects are not rendered and you cannot target it anyway (IIRC) - or have I got that all wrong?
Right. You can only use submonitors for remote control if you're IS.

Gee, decided to divulge something now..
So did your authority prohibit any help in your first message or are you just learning about the monitors now?

StarSword · Post by **StarSword** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 21:20

I didn't know you could switch guns with them. Sorry.

Sylthos · Post by **Sylthos** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 21:24

If you have it in the monitors while IS with the said ship, when you leave the sector or it does, it will stay there as you said a collapsed window bar. If you click your ships name or ships icon, you'll have acces to the regular access controls like you would if you accessed it from the property menu.

It's also a great to track potential boarding targets. As long as said ship lives, you'll be to look up its location from anywhere even if you don't have an asset in the same sector as it.

You can also dogfight using the monitors and launch missiles IS. Trying to target a ship while attempting this is a pain however.

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 21:33

Alan Phipps wrote:I found out about remote control of your IS ships using sub-monitors only by accidental mouse clicks in a target sub-monitor while playing X3TC in an advanced gamestage. I thought suddenly being able to remotely turn a newly-captured ship so that it did not run straight into your own ship when given an order to move to be a great personal discovery - only to find that a lot of others already knew about it!

X2 had "Simulator" outside of game with some training missions: fly, trade, build, etc. One of them sets you into underequipped Titan and gives a Nova. You are told (male narrator voice) how to map the Nova to a sub-monitor (X2 had many sub-monitors) and control remotely. Then you have to shoot down one Pirate remotely; the rest of the red you could handle as you see fit.

Therefore, former X2-players had the possibility to know. Not quite a printed manual though.

donzi · Post by **donzi** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 21:57

Sylthos, thanks for adding the additional info. It sounds as if you're saying in TC (?) there is some OOS monitored ship control? .. like what I'd observed with the hired TL?

I have tested some in X3R and operating a monitor ship is pretty much there. Can also control from a spacesuit. Weapon group changes are working fine. In X3R though there is no apparent way to know which is active or what they consist of. No biggie since I'll use a specific format for guns + groups on them.

The command console seemed to get queued though. Dock at.. didn't make the monitored ship do anything until I moved focus back to my own ship from the monitor window.

Z, X, TAB, BS and T are a bit of a mystery still as I didn't test much with them. They do things but there is something else to it. Not sure if it was acting differently based on spacesuit or player ship.

At any rate, YEAH!

Can use this to my advantage in X3R too. I only have a few ships and less than 4mil Cr so maximizing them is important in my game. Vanilla X3R and repair costs and my bankroll means my ship and most of the fleet is less than 100% hull. I don't bother considering repairs until the ship speed takes a hit.

donzi · Post by **donzi** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 22:02

jlehtone wrote:You are told (male narrator voice) how to map the Nova to a sub-monitor (X2 had many sub-monitors) and control remotely. Then you have to shoot down one Pirate remotely; the rest of the red you could handle as you see fit.

This is part of my recollection in X2 and one of the things I didn't like when moving on to X3R.. Not a much monitoring and capabilities.

I suppose to some degree it was just sort of a method change, remote control.. but it was a drag to have gotten proficient in X2 with them and then have to work with them in X3.

PS:

I feel rather stupid since it's so easy to test if weapon groups worked or not. Having a desire to do so and not even trying it before posting.

..on the bright side I expect a few people will find this info useful, which may have never been known to them if I wasn't a moron.

Sylthos · Post by **Sylthos** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 22:23

@donzi

There's no "manual" control for OOS ships.

Menu Appears like this when you click the icon/name:

Info
Commands
Freight
Advance
ETC.

I don't remember the exact order, but it's exactly like the menu in the properties page. Never touched X3:R, but I will vouch for TC and AP. And don't feel too bad about not knowing about remote pilot. A thread like this pops up every 4 to 5 months. Enjoy.

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Tue, 4. Sep 12, 22:30

X3R, some time ago. And then some.

donzi · Post by **donzi** » Wed, 5. Sep 12, 01:17

Sylthos, I think my interpretaion of what you'd said was just way off.

What you're describing in your next post sounds like the basic remote control of OOS ships, which I am very familiar with.

donzi · Post by **donzi** » Wed, 5. Sep 12, 01:27

jlehtone wrote:X3R, some time ago. And then some.

RE: "Anyway, my interest was in whether the weapon grouping is ignored OOS, and yes, it seems so."

Interesting. I will check this sooner or later in X3R 2.5 -- not much OOS combat for now. Maybe I'll equip the nemesis or hyperion in such a way it'll be obvious. hehe. Like set it with a group of no weapons or AIRE and send it into an OOS sector with enemy.

Very nice posts though, thanks for digging them out. I expect nothing has changed since then and now - ver 2.5.

Have you happened to see any differences in TC and AP with what you'd found back then?

EDIT: I assume once IS again the ship will revert to the group you'd set prevously?

It'd be good to have a realistic loadout selected for when IS with the ship. IE: SWG or other area effect weapons not selected

Post by **Nanook** » Wed, 5. Sep 12, 01:31

Alan Phipps wrote:....
OOS you cannot change weapon groups (I think). Only the weapons in the selected main and turret groups will count for OOS combat turns so the rest unselected in other groups are totally wasted OOS...

Alan, are you sure about this? I was under the impression that OOS combat uses all equipped weapons, and ignores weapons groups altogether.

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Remote Ship Control - Weapon Groups

Remote Ship Control - Weapon Groups