OOS Q Defense (Albion Prelude)

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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lordsloth
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OOS Q Defense (Albion Prelude)

Post by lordsloth » Wed, 12. Sep 12, 11:54

Ive seen a lot of recommendations for the Osaka (Or Tyr) as defense against Q's because they are most likely to survive the initial hit.

Is there any particular reason (other than being more expensive) why I shouldnt use the Kyoto or Megalodon instead. I understand that in sector their size, speed and anti-fighter turret coverage leaves something to be desired, but from what I understand this makes little difference in OOS combat.

The kyoto should pack the same punch as an osaka as the turrets are similar in strength (regardless of coverage).

The megalodon would pack PPCs instead of PSPs. Is that better? Worse? The same? Im not sure how OOS works in regards to damage per hit or damage over time. From what I understand the terran PSGs have a higher single hit damage and the commonwealth PPCs have a higher sustained damage. Not sure which is better in OOS.

The reason I ask is because I'm fairly decently stocked up on PPCs but not so much on the PSPs and I'd like to get some sector defense up and running quick-ish and my PSG forges havent been running as long as my PPC ones.

Crezeh
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Post by Crezeh » Wed, 12. Sep 12, 16:39

The whole "one-hit kill" thing is TC only. AP OOS combat was improved.

The Kyoto should be superior to the Osaka, and the Megalodon should be close to equal to the Tyr.

OOS combat doesn't care about anything but total weapon damage. The PPC should function fine. The Megalodon will arguably gain more firepower than the Kyoto thanks to having more turrets, but the Tyr has even more.

However, the Tyr doesn't have the cargo space to fill its turrets, so the Megalodon is likely the best option.
Last edited by Crezeh on Wed, 12. Sep 12, 18:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Draekros
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Post by Draekros » Wed, 12. Sep 12, 17:31

A Valhalla has even more in the way of weaponry than the Tyr... of course you'd need a Jump Beacon to get it into the system you want it to patrol/defend/etc. if there isn't already one there. You can just place the Jump Beacon with another (gate-friendly) ship, jump in the Valhalla, collect the Jump Beacon again, then issue the orders. With 14G of shielding, it can take on anything (only downsides are that it doesn't fit through gates so can only jump to Jump Beacons, and you can't buy one - you have to go take it from the ATF :pirat:).

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Post by ThommoHawk » Wed, 12. Sep 12, 17:42

Observations with playing AP OOS and reading related discussions over at the S&M Section is that in AP, a M1, or M2 is no longer at risk of being killed as in " your ship OSAKA MEGA DEATHSTAR has been destroyed by a .... pirate harrier ..." or similar. Seems with AP an M7 lilke the Xenon Q is not able to bust up a M1 or M2 anymore either.... (at least not in a one-on-one). True for me so far.

Be advised though that when it comes to Xenon Gate Blockade techniques in AP, The standard Xenon K have so far made space junk out of my 'super' M2's every time.... I have a pair of Megalodons posted at each gate now, and usual scenario is something like:

everying is fine until one single K comes out of (ie Grand Exchange), and both 12GJ Shields of both Megalodons are shredded in seconds, and usually just one Megalodon survies with 50% hull damage... and while this is going on, the K just sits there taking their combined planet destroying firepower going 'huh? what's that noise?' as my Majestic Megalodon turns to space junk.... I have also put up a Xenon I against the Xenon K, with hardly better results, so be warned...
(and to avoid a rehash of loadouts vs loadouts these Megalodons and Xenon I's I have are maxxed to the plasma vents, and no issues regarding ammo based weapons)
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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Wed, 12. Sep 12, 17:58

Do you have one Meg protecting the leader?
Ships use that formation link for mutual support.
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Post by ThommoHawk » Wed, 12. Sep 12, 18:41

^ Initially I had both of them linked like that. The leader in 'Defend Position' about 10k from the gate, and the escort Mega is on 'Protect', and then it is usually the leader which gets trashed. Then I have tried different combinations like the escort on 'attack target of' (escort gets trashed), or both on 'Defend (same) position' with very little difference, which I could not tell if it was just normal variation ... I admit I'm not up to scratch anymore with the subtelties of oos though, so just saying thats what has been happening for me regarding specifically the K's.

Shields on these Blockade Megalodons both go down simultaneously... as the K engagemnet occurs... the K always dies in the end but very common that also one of the Megalodons... but I have learned to live with it by getting one to eject some fighter drones and that helps. (did try onboard fighters protection but they kept getting wasted too). Now i have a few I's I'll start boarding K's, and use them for blockades, which should balance things out i hope. But later as for now im playing TC again.
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Post by Karmaticdamage » Wed, 12. Sep 12, 23:36

Does the faster ship still get to fire first oos in AP as it was in TC? If so then the K gets to fire at the megalodons first. This would also mean a tyr would be ideal for dealing with a K in oos since its faster. Fit as much psp as It can hold while still being equiped with 12gj shielding.

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Post by Crezeh » Thu, 13. Sep 12, 00:17

Karmaticdamage wrote:Does the faster ship still get to fire first oos in AP as it was in TC?
I'm not sure if that was removed entirely, but since the first hit isn't all that lethal anymore, I don't think speed is important.

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Post by Aragosnat » Thu, 13. Sep 12, 20:48

From the sounds of it all. It sounds like people will need to field more then just two megalodons...

Would one fair better if you have three or more megalodons?

I realize it would still be costly to outfit everyone. But, could save you the headache of replacing ships every so often.
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ajm317
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Post by ajm317 » Thu, 13. Sep 12, 21:27

Consider laser towers.

100 laser towers cost about as much as a single heavy M6. You'll lose some to K's, J's and I's, but it's a lot less headache to replace LT's than ships. Just load up a TS and drop them off every so often. 50-100 LT's dropped off about 5 km from a gate will shred even I's.

The downside of course is that you have to build a complex to supply them, but even a self sustaining 50 LT factory complex will cost you less than 2 out fitted Megalodons.

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Post by Gazz » Fri, 14. Sep 12, 14:22

In AP, LT have been boosted so you don't need to deploy hundreds of them and a very old bug with their target acquisition was fixed.
They actually were so powerful that they got stuck with a setup time so you couldn't just instantly spawn a hammer of god weapon by dropping 20 of them from your cargo bay.

In Reunion/TC they had a very bad reputation... because OOS they were nearly blind. Did did work... if anything ever happened to fly within a few hundred meters of one. =P
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ajm317
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Post by ajm317 » Fri, 14. Sep 12, 17:36

In my experience you can beat an I OOS with about 30 LT, but you'll probably lose 11 or 12 of them. In my opinion that's an annoyingly high attrition rate, so in sectors like Grand Exchange or Black Hole Sun I prefer to drop off around 100.

A Q can be beaten with as few as a half dozen or so.

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Simoom
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Post by Simoom » Fri, 5. Apr 13, 16:03

ThommoHawk wrote:^ Initially I had both of them linked like that. The leader in 'Defend Position' about 10k from the gate, and the escort Mega is on 'Protect', and then it is usually the leader which gets trashed. Then I have tried different combinations like the escort on 'attack target of' (escort gets trashed), or both on 'Defend (same) position' with very little difference, which I could not tell if it was just normal variation ... I admit I'm not up to scratch anymore with the subtelties of oos though, so just saying thats what has been happening for me regarding specifically the K's.

Shields on these Blockade Megalodons both go down simultaneously... as the K engagemnet occurs... the K always dies in the end but very common that also one of the Megalodons... but I have learned to live with it by getting one to eject some fighter drones and that helps. (did try onboard fighters protection but they kept getting wasted too). Now i have a few I's I'll start boarding K's, and use them for blockades, which should balance things out i hope. But later as for now im playing TC again.
I too were having issue with Defend Position, until I figured out that it was that exact command that was killing my ships.

Use the command "Attack Capital Ships", and they will go straight for the Xenon capitals. The escort fighters won't be an issue because AP now has a "counter-fire" system where smaller ships attacking large ships will automatically receive return fire - the the case of fighters and M6's, they literally pop en masse when they crowd around your M2.

The only problem is your ships will eventually wander out of position after a few hours (chasing down a lone Xenon M5 or something), so you have to check in every once in a while and put them back where they belong.

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Post by Alan Phipps » Fri, 5. Apr 13, 16:22

@ Simoom: I would keep your same topic to the currently active thread and not resurrect 6 month dormant threads as well. Next time just link supporting older threads in your active thread posts, if you need to.
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Simoom
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Post by Simoom » Fri, 5. Apr 13, 18:23

Alan Phipps wrote:@ Simoom: I would keep your same topic to the currently active thread and not resurrect 6 month dormant threads as well. Next time just link supporting older threads in your active thread posts, if you need to.
Sorry about that. :) I didn't realize how old this thread was (it showed up on Google because I was searching for OOS comparisons between Megalodon and Kyoto)

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