A Speculation and A Question about Capping the Small Ships

[Bill Huntington]

I’ve got a speculation and a question about capping the small ships.

First, let me lay out my usual method. My favorite ship is a Mamba Vanguard or the Advanced Mamba. I have started capping with a Harrier and worked up from there. With a Mamba, the usual target is another M3 or a TS. I like the Paranid TS, especially the SF XL, which you can sell for $1 Mil. Most M3s sell for $1 Mil, and some like the Medusa sell for $3 Mil. I like to hunt in Argon territory, since there is a rep bonus for attacking Paranid ships. You can usually cap just one ship in Boron and Teladi space, but they turn red and their police come after you. Hatikvak is one of my favorites.

I set up the Mamba with 5 PACs on button 1 and 3 IREs on button 2. I use the PACs to lower the shields and then change to button 2. I will save before the cap with Salvage Insurance. If I don’t have salvage insurance yet, I will start being docked from a station, sometimes in another sector. I take the target down to 91 % hull. The first bail check occurs at 92.7 hull, so if you get to 91, you’ve gone past it and had the first bail check. You have to wait for the next one. Since I don’t have access to their timer, I use the shield recovery to get a good estimate. If the target has 3 x 25 shields, I wait until the shields are 20%, then attack again. If the target has 2 x 25, I wait until 30%. If the shield is 1 x5, I wait for 100% shields. These numbers have paid off for me many times. I usually only do the first two bail checks. I repair the TS before I sell it. It’s no fun to repair from very low hull. I’d rather get a hull with at least 50%. So I stop around there. If I really need $, I might go more. Or for a better model of M3, I will take it all the way down. Otherwise, 50% is what I usually stop at.

I reload 3 times, occasionally more. With this method, you’ve had 6 chances to get the bail. It works many times.

Let me explain a little. If you are eligible for a bail check, it is checked on each shot. That is why IRE is the best weapon for capping. If you get a bail check, it can either be yes or no. If yes, then the target bails. If no, the cap continues until you are eligible for the next bail check. If someone asks, many pilots have the exact schedule. After the waiting period, the second bail check can come immediately, or later. Usually it happens by 50%, if you started from 91 or so.

Here is my speculation. I'm only talking about a message that comes when the shields are gone, and you are lowering the hull. You will get message from the target, like “revenge” or “shields failing”. It seems like this message means there was a bail check, and it was negative. I have never gotten a bail until 20 or more points of shield are lost, after this kind of message. In other words, until you were eligible for another bail check. If this was true, it would be smart to take a waiting period before continuing, to get the target with more hull than otherwise.

Some TC pilots have reviewed the code, or have thought about this long before me, so I will ask what pilots think about this.

[DiveBomberDave]

I think you have it pretty much right with your current strategy, I use HEPTs and PBE's (1 for capping), but dont resave just for a lost cap.
I think you have it right to use a heavier weapon for the first pass, I think it helps.

I think the pilot has a hidden morale factor (theres a mod to see it), there is the bail check and the morale is too high so you get the message "I don't respect your lowly rank enough to bail".
Very rarely do I see a pilot bail after the revenge message, but after the "I'm running" message I have.

Somewhere on this forum you should be able to find a thread stating the whole algorithm, but it's hard to understand, there's several factors taken into consideration.

[DrBullwinkle]

I will ask what pilots think about this.

What, exactly, is your question, Bill?

Yes, you have the process approximately right; as far as anyone knows (and has posted). I slowly count to ten in my head during the pause, although that may not be long enough. I'm not sure, because I never reload. I just play the game as it comes, and accept any losses as part of the game.

Yes, there is a thread where a guy who reads Russian posted about some Russian decompiled code. No, the thread does not contain any useful information that you do not already know. And that is good, IMHO.

Frankly, I don't think that anybody should read that thread. I wish that I hadn't. But I am glad that reading the thread does not say any more than you have already figured out.

And, BTW, the thread is old. Both TC and AP have been patched since then, and LV was angry enough about the thread that he threatened to try to influence a change in the algorithm (and you know how influential he can be when he tries). I hope that it did change (although it does not seem to have changed much).

IIRC, the thread to which you refer was locked because it discussed decompiled code from the game.

Unless you have some other question, maybe we will get lucky and this thread will be locked, too.

[Bill Huntington]

Thank your both for the replies.

Dr. Bullwinkle, this game is complex enough there is always more to learn and more to do. I like to hear new things that I don't know. That's exactly why I come here. I usually post items that newer people can learn something from too. I believe that is the reason that we have a forum. If pilots want to learn everything themselves, there is no need to check in here.

Every pilot sets his or her own limits in this game. I will buy the occasional ship. But I prefer to cap most of them. Reloading is a personal decision for each pilot. I reload (within certain personal limits) so I can do my learning at that time. For example, capping an M3 with PBG as weapons is difficult. It takes a lot of different approaches to find one that will work. So when I found that one, I did a lot of reloads to figure it out. Reloading is allowed by the rules, and Salvage insurance is part of the game. If some pilots choose not to, that is a personal choice.

[DrBullwinkle]

I did not mean to come across as heavy-handed. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play the game -- that's the fun of the sandbox.

I just meant that discussions about decompiling the game to exploit it are not in the community's best interest. If somebody wants to decompile the game, that's their business... but telling the world about it is both a license violation and poor manners, IMHO.

Perhaps that is not your intent. Figuring out strategies on your own is terrific, and that is what the forum is great for.

So that brings us back to... "What question are you trying to ask?"

[Bill Huntington]

Thanks.

Question: Do you think that bail check is connected to the Talking by the Target?

Different answers could lead to different ways to do the cap, and different results.

[DrBullwinkle]

Do you think that bail check is connected to the Talking by the Target?

Yes, definitely.

In my experience, the process goes something like this:
- The bail check starts the talking.
- If the talking is "I surrender", then it means that the bail check came out in favor of bailing.
- It is VITAL to NOT SHOOT while the NPC is trying to surrender.

If the player continues to shoot while the NPC is offering to surrender, then the bail process is interrupted, and the fight resumes. You would then have to wait for yet another bail check in order to continue with the capture.

[Bill Huntington]

Dr. Bullwinkle, that is new info to me. Of course, I would always stop to save hull damage.

So if the target that is talking is NOT surrendering, and the bail check and the Talking are connected, then the next bail check will come later. So it would be better to wait for a while to save hull damage.

I'm going to do it like that for a while at least.

[DrBullwinkle]

Dr. Bullwinkle, that is new info to me. Of course, I would always stop to save hull damage.

So if the target that is talking is NOT surrendering, and the bail check and the Talking are connected, then the next bail check will come later. So it would be better to wait for a while to save hull damage.

Interesting thought.

I meant that the "I surrender" talk is linked to the bail check, which seems obvious.

Does that also mean that the "Go play with asteroids!" talk is also linked to a failed bail check? I do not know... but it would make sense that it could be. Programs (and scripts) often work that way.

As you say, pausing after an insult may make sense. You should report back here after you do more testing -- it would be interesting to know, for sure.