[REQUEST] Random Universe Map

[TTD]

I know there is a script for adding random sectors to the universe.

What I am wondering is...

Is there a mod that will start you off in a random sector and

either add sector to sector , like the above mentioned script,

or generate a completely random universe from the start?

This mod or script will obviously be most likely incompatible with many plot missions.

The reason for this query is because having played since the X2 days, I sort of know where everything is and thus a certain level of boredom and predictability is setting in.

I think there are some mods that have a new universe ,too.
Can't remember which ones they are,but the ones I remember were Reunion mods.
Any for TC or AP with completely new universe?

Any links would be appreciated.

[jack775544]

RSM randomly adds sectors to the galaxy. You would have to poke Ketraar about a fully randomised galaxy though.

[TTD]

That's one I was thinking of. for that

[Ketraar]

I also think (not 100% sure) that enenra added a similar thing to XTC. As the universe grows over time, dont think its random though.

A new (better) version of RSM is something that I keep on the todo list, but I keep being sidetracked to other stuff.

MFG

Ketraar

[EmperorJon]

Sounds fun!

[TTD]

Sounds fun!

All Hail the Emp !

yeah,so do you get my drift,John ?

It would bring back exploring into the game again,making all those M5 more than just cannon fodder,which they tend to be of late.

I use one for Satellite placement,if I don't use a script.
I rarely fly them,except for getting to the Hub the first two times.
otherwise,I just buy them 2nd hand repair and sell.

It would also make the generic missions more important.

[EmperorJon]

I understand completely what you mean, the game loses something significant once you know where everything is. You don't have that feel any more. I hope I get that feel when we play Rebirth...

No, I'm not going to volunteer to try to make one, either, because I'll never finish it.

[dillpickle]

As far as I see it, generating a random universe isn't a major problem - Ketraar's RSM basically does that - just adding to the existing, rather than starting from scratch.

The major problem I see is randomly generating a functional economy - GoD will only build stations defined in the map file, which with a total random universe would for all intents and purposes be empty... All non-GoD build stations use a standard resource list rather than those defined in ware template, so all SPP's require crystals, no secondary resource 'sink'...

I also think (not 100% sure) that enenra added a similar thing to XTC. As the universe grows over time, dont think its random though.

TheXTC universe is a completely new universe - only Aldrin survived from TC, and then in name only. It is 'dynamic' in that it starts off small and over time will expand with new sectors being connected, the order they're connected is mostly random apart from the need to work out from existing sectors.
The over all universe is predetermined though with all sectors defined within the map file.

[Ketraar]

OK here a quick info in regards a truly random universe.

The simple version:

• 1. Yes it is possible.
  2. Not without some major tweeks, aka hacks to jobs and how GoD operates.

More detailed version:
First you have to understand some basics on how the game works and various reactions to changes in map and Jobs. Lets assume we do a completely randomised universe, with the exception of the start sector, that is set in gamestarts.xml and cant be random, all you can do is warp the player immediately after the start.

Lets talk Jobs. Jobs and Job.wings are very static, for most part, meaning you cant adjust them as you go. They are set upfront and you stick to them as they are. You could update the files as you go but that is hardly something to consider. Jobs do adjust as sectors become available and but a minimum amount of existing sector per race is needed and those will be rather cluttered at start or stretched thin later on, depending on the settings. So Jobs would need handling either by MD or SE scripts, that's a lot of scripts to monitor and handle jobs right, but still not impossible.

Now the other major thing is GoD. See GoD only cares about stuff that is set in the map file. It will not give a rats bastu about any other stuff you add through scripts, so any station, OWP or other that is blown to bits will stay blown up for ever. This means you need to add similar to Jobs scripts that monitor these too. This is also not impossible, but unlike Jobs, this type of monitoring is much harder if you want it done balanced. I tried once to do a MD GoD with Jens a few years back but its too much hassle for the benefits.

Generic missions should have no problems if the universe is not too small, but Plots would be ruined for most part, if not all. So thats a downer too.

Thats why I set RSM to expand on existing universe rather then make the whole thing. Its a balance of the best of two worlds imo, you get the existing universe to play with as usual, do plots, etc and randomly added sectors that pop over time. I also chose to only add unknown and Xenon sectors mostly to not wreck jobs for the NPCs, as Xenon Jobs are more active once you place a shipyard in it. So that also adds some challenge to security as to exploration. There are some minor tweeks I'd like to introduce to AP's version of RSM once I get around to actually do it.

MFG

Ketraar

EDIT: argh ninja'd, thats for writing posts while coping with work....

[TTD]

Thankyou both , again.

While reading Ketraar's post, I was thinking...

Maybe start with the original sectors from X-BTF and randomize from there?

I am not bothered about doing the plots , as such , since I have done most of the plots in one form or another since X2.
The only exception is the Reunion plot from the hoop-race onwards,and
did not complete BoP successfully without help.

[dillpickle]

One possible approach could be to split the map up into zones...

So you start with a Core zone of say 30 sectors, which is always loaded and has the start sectors, and possibly plot critical sectors.
The rest of the universe is cut up, say into 10, 20 sector blocks. Each of these blocks could have several maps different outlays/racial configurations. for the same area of space, so all the sectors are predefined with their stations etc...
On game start a random map is selected for each zone (with a few checks to get a fairly even spread of No. of race sectors).
Add a few gates randomly to join zone 1 to zone 2 etc... and you have a different universe that GoD should be able to cope with every game start...

[Ketraar]

Well technically you could do this on a sector by sector base. Say you have 5 layouts per sector and load those as you go randomly. But its the kind of thing that is IMO not worth the effort for what you get.

As for MD placing Stations, if its not player stations the placing should use warestemplate.xml like the map, only player stations and docks have a problem, but any of those can be fixed in the code.

MFG

Ketraar

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

My proposal, a simple flat universe map (no super jump-gates except perhaps as wrap arounds or hub gates). This is to avoid the duplicate E/W/N/S Gate issue encountered with RSM.

There is one home sector for each race randomly positioned on the map with a cluster of 7 border sectors around the home sector. The rest are unknown sectors.

You then use something like STO or Frontier Wars to assert control of races over sectors and have them fight for control of the universe.

Initial Home and Border sectors would be sacrasanct by default but if enable genocide option then a race can be wiped out.

player could be added as own faction as an option.

[EDIT] Player could start in The Hub sector for all starts. Which would be connected to the relevant race Home sector and one of the border sectors at the start. Hub may or may not be active/ownabke by the player.[/EDIT]

[Ketraar]

Yes like I said all in theory mostly possible, but you need to code all those AI spawns and station placements. Then monitor them to keep them balanced and adjust where needed.

Thats a heck a lot of work and not addressing the performance issues either.

MFG

Ketraar

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

We could keep it simple, basically after sector capture: assign a role to the sector, spawn a mix of the relevant stations and supply ships and then leave them to either survive or be destroyed (when all resources destroyed it changes ownership).

Starting sector stations could be made invincible to prevent genocide.