M7Cs...

[Echofinder]

So I capped a Maccana and... it's pretty terribad. Make that terribadly terribad. Is this thing salvagable for anything or is it just selling fodder?

I'm just happy I didn't lose any marines getting this piece of junk.

[kolimbo]

http://roguey.co.uk/x3ap/ships/ship-270/

The only good M7C In my opinion.

Edit: I take that back, the Guppy could be used as an drone carrier. The TS docking space makes a difference

[ajax34i]

If they carried M8's they'd be excellent, but yeah they're awful, considering the fact that by the time you're looking to get a carrier you have the money for a proper one with the full defenses and big guns. Griffon Sentinel beats Maccana, Panther Raider beats Ariadne.

[SilusCrow]

If they carried M8's they'd be excellent, but yeah they're awful, considering the fact that by the time you're looking to get a carrier you have the money for a proper one with the full defenses and big guns.

Jack a Kyoto then. Only 6 cargo spaces, but they can carry M8s, M6s and the whole line of trade ships (barring the big ones).

[Nick Northern]

They have some potential for people who want to change things up. I agree they are not very practical for the cost, compared to other things around that price range though.

Some uses I can see are to use them as mobile storage for caped fighters, picking up the fighters your flak caps. Also, I think 2 of the M7C's can park 1 TS in them, effectively giving them up to 15000 more cargo space. This would make them a pretty good carrier/missile storage for longer sector fights.

Again though, I think the real reason they were added was to make another transition into the story of Rebirth, with the whole 'drone' thing. In practical terms, I think Elephant does all the M7C's can do and more (minus the whole docking of a TS thing, but with so much more cargo room, they really don't need to do that). I've been using the Elephant for pretty much the same purpose of the M7C class for a long time.

[Triaxx2]

I'm thinking that they are intended as sort of a capital class TM. Something to use to bring smaller fighters to you to resupply your carrier after they've done something stupid, like crash into a rock, or try to take on a Q, or I single-handedly.

[ConCorDian]

i actually quite like this class, take the Guppy or Ariadne especially, what your looking at is roughly 1.1-1.2 million per hanger space... then consider the M1 carrier class... they are more in line with 1.5-2 million per hanger space.... so the M7C class can be very useful, especially when you take cargospace into account, ive found that i normally have more space in multiple M7C's for carrying ammo/missiles etc for my fighters than i do from a single M1. im not trying to say that M7C's are better than M1's but they do have a decent role in a fleet if used properly.

what people need to keep in mind is that carriers are not combat vessels in their own right.... their power comes from what the fighters have, so therefore some of the M7C's can be more cost effective than M1's in certain roles, also keep in mind if you have a single M1 (ill use the boron as an example) Shark you can get 45 fighters to where you want them, but then take the Guppy, its 13.2 million a peice so you can get 4 of them cheaper than a single shark (52.8million compaired to 61.6 both unequiped) and that gives me 48 fighters i can get into combat rather than 45.... or the one thing that the Shark cant do is i can introduce 12 fighters into 4 different combat zones at the same time. which that ability gives me excellent defences against small pirate raiding groups.

[kolimbo]

Yeah, but the Colossus can chuck 60 at them and it's still only around 70M.

More importantly, you don't lose the damn things as fast.

It's inevitable that a M6 or a couple of M3s will get close to your carrier and the M7Cs just can't survive that.

[ConCorDian]

but again thats all about using them as a carrier, you dont need to keep your carrier in the battle field, jump them in and chuck out your fighters then jump them out.... once the fight is over jump back in and recall what fighters you have left. carriers are the same as bombers, dont let them get too close to the action themselves, carriers and bombers stay outside the combat zone, and throw in the missiles/fighters from range.

even an M1 carrier wont last that long against an M2 or an M7M/M8... they aint supposed to they are suppose to deliver their ordinance and get out... just happens the carriers Ordinance is in the form of fighters.

not only that but compairing the Guppy to a Colossus in price youd get 5 Guppy's for the price of a single Colossus which gives them 60 fighters as well. but with the Guppy youd have 5 lots of 5000 XL (if im remembering off the top of my head correctly) cargo making 25000XL cargo compaired to the 8800XL of the Colossus.

[Triaxx2]

The purpose of a carrier isn't to stand with it's fighters, but to deliver them safely through gates. It's intended to shrug off flak that might be sitting at the gate to catch in coming fighters, get them safely through, and then deploy them and jump away.

The Cormorant is the only one I'd keep with the fighters, and then only for breaking stations with Gauss Cannons.

[Echofinder]

So the Griffon Sentinel and Panther are considered M7Cs? They're referred to (and shielded) as M7s in-game AFAIK.

The new M7C ships that were introduced in AP seem to be a TM+ class instead of an M7 variant in terms of practicality; but the price is far too high for such a relatively moderate boost in abilities.

[Progress-M]

The Guppy's ability to have a TS/TP ship docked makes me happy!

[ConCorDian]

but the price is far too high for such a relatively moderate boost in abilities.

but as ive already shown the M7C can be more cost effective than the M1. so the price is actually about right.... i think what should happen is that TM's should get a price increase.... also i wouldnt call 2.5-5x the ability moderate either, because again carriers aint ment to fight they are simply the delivery medium for your fighters, and since your looking at 3-4 ship hanger on a TM going to a 10-24 ship hanger on the M7C it is a decent increase.

[kolimbo]

But by your logic everyone should be using Pirate Caravels. It only need 15 of them to carry 60 ships and that's barely 2M.

For the same price of a single M7C, you can carry 200+ ships with TMs.

There are literally no advantage for the M7Cs if all you cared about was getting ships to the sector.

Hell, even an elephant is better than the M7Cs and it's not even a combat ship!

[DrBullwinkle]

an elephant is better than the M7Cs and it's not even a combat ship!

Yeah, I do not understand the logic behind M7C balance, either. They seem to be a "solution without a problem".

Sure, you can use them as you would a big TM. But, then, why not use an Elephant or Yaki Ryu (my favorite "fighting" TL), as kolimbo suggests?

The original "light drone frigate" was the Griffon which was the reward at the end of the Final Fury plot in TC. That ship made sense; it was lighter than most frigates, but also smaller and more maneuverable, which made it a good choice for a player ship. In AP that ship is now the Griffon Sentinel which is an M7 "Special", and it has been nerfed from its TC specs. The much lighter Griffon Hauler is an M7C, with shielding barely better than an M6.

If you think of the M7C class as "M6 with docking bays" then you would be close.

Even if we had the missing "drone carrier software" that was intended for the M7C class, the balance still leaves a lot of question marks. Although, with on-board production of M4-class drones, the M7C would make a bit more sense than it does in its current state.

*Shrug*... if you don't like them, then don't use them!

[ConCorDian]

yeh by rights the TM class is the best value for money but that does become a logistics issue.... and i have at no point disputed using the TL class as a carrier, infact i have used the Elephant and Ryu for that very purpose... ill put in some fighters but also stock up on fighter drones as well and you can turn a Ryu into a relativly cheap carrier capible of bringing down even big ships like destroyers...

thing is the M7C still offers just as much as the TL, ships like the Guppy can carry 12 fighters but it also has a TS slot allowing it to expand its cargo capacity beyond pretty much everything but a TL, its also just as fast, better turn rate, faster accel and 4.1 million cheaper.... the cormorant can only carry 12 fighters as well but with the added bonus of GC's albiet only 2 and its ability to use EBC's on its other turrets its got the ability to take down corvettes if required, yeh the Elephant and Ryu can fit IBL's but thats like a preschool kid entering the olympics as a power lifter! then ships like the Ariadne can carry 24 fighters for all its more expensive, also TL's are a far larger target than M7C's.... so no i personally feel your wrong M7C's still have the purpose i have said... they each have their quirks and pro's and con's same as all other ships but they are good for what they are.

[Brinnie]

I like the class, at least the Guppy and the Ariadne, they have good speed and what makes them useful to me is that I can travel about with a good number of fighters (particularly the Ariadne) and a TS or TP.

It gives me a chance to jump quickly from place to place with my personal wings, when I don't need to chug along with the bigger ships.

For the same reasons they are good as support ships too.

Money is not an issue really, I am always looking for ways to make use of credits in the game. What else am I gonna do with it?

[kubovsky]

Get a guppy. Fit it with 10 solanos, one m5 and one angel, and you will have a true multi-purpose-vessel in which you can rush trough most of the logistic/taxi missions and make a lot of money. With the fighters you can do some easy combat missions too.

I love the guppy angel combo. Its like a swiss knife.

I made a lot of credits, going around in my angel, doing taxi or delivery missions, while the guppy is used for the bring back or deliver ship missions. The TS/

TP docking bay is great for that.

[Wraith_Magus]

... I still don't see the appeal.

I would buy a Guppy if it could dock 2 or 3 TMs, and then deploy them like some sort of hive ship, which would greatly extend its hanger capacity.

So essentially, it's weak guns are basically the same as a TM. Its shields are only moderately better. It's essentially not meant for direct combat, just like a TM (or any other carrier, but at least a M1 can easily brush off a stray M3 that gets through), but a TM costs 1/24th as much for the hull.

Fully loaded, a TM is only around 1 million credits, and basically, the only reason to take a M7C as a carrier over three Zephyrii is that I'm basically paying a 10 million credit premium in order to consolidate my fighter wings down from three to one.

You can start talking about bringing a TS, but the only advantage of a dockable TS is over the comparably-priced TL, which has far more cargo capacity. (An Elephant carries the same number of fighters for a comparable cost and has much better storage capacity.)

You can hypothetically talk about drones, but there's nothing really stopping you from jamming 100 fighter drones in a TM, either. (In fact, it works pretty darn well for OoS applications.)

As it stands, the only excuse for the M7C seems to be "TMs were a mistake, and they are way overpowered, so we're releasing these as though TMs didn't exist." That, or they're actually meant to be priced in the 3 or 4 million credit range, and TLs should start being able to dock TSes as well, which would make a lot of game sense, except for the part where a M3+ costs more than the carrier it docks with. (Which is a problem of single-man fighters being too powerful and expensive relative to cap ships, generally.)

[RoverTX]

Argon:

Griff Sent: A Weaker Cerb with More Fighter Space.
Grif Hauler: An even Weaker Cerb with Even More Fighter Space.

Boron:
Gupy: 1G shielding and can park a TS/TP.

Parinid:
Ariadne: 24 Figthers and can park a TS/TP

Telide:
Cormorant: A lot of storage 8k, and can use Gause Cannons, a huge hull.

Split:
Panther: A weaker tiger with no main guns but fighters.

Terran:
Maccana: 1G shields and.......It looks cool?

I get the usefulness of all them really but the Terran Maccana.... its just terrible, its like a Guppy minus the TS/TP..... As a matter of fact its worst in almost everything then a Guppy and twice the price.....