Capping a "Return ship" mission ship advice needed.

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Ailour
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Capping a "Return ship" mission ship advice needed.

Post by Ailour » Thu, 8. Nov 12, 01:14

Hello!

Playing AP, i have 7 marines biught and on training. While doing casual missions, i stumbled on a "return ship" that proved to be a Kraken. Splendid, i thought, time to give those slackers some work to do! So, i get my TP over to the target with my marines on it. I scan the ship, it's totally empty and devoid of everything: No defences, no marines, no shields / weps, nothing. I send my marines over for capture (4* fighting, 2-3* other skills). 5 of em get on the hull as a team, cut the hull with ease and then proceed with the capture. To my suprpise, they all get killed on 2nd deck. Reloading didn't have any more success.

Working as intended? I mean, do i really have to find, train and send 20+ marines on an abandoned ship to capture it? What actually surprised me is that i could easily just go near and claim it anyway...

Thnx in advance!

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Post by Bill Huntington » Thu, 8. Nov 12, 01:57

Ailour, that is a very normal result. I don't understand why all 7 didn't make it in. You could explain the result as the resistance that the regular crew put up, without marines. But it is very normal.

You could just draft any available marines you could buy right now. Twenty could do it for sure, and probably 15 could. Buy two star in fighting and even one star if you have to. Most will die. But all that survive will add five to ten points to their fight rating.

Since it is an M7 and probably being returned to a small station, it will be returned outside the station. So cap it, return it, and then cap it again for more fight training. Keep it after that or sell it. When you drop it at the station, return it WITHOUT SHIELDS so you don't have to deal with that. The returned ship will start to move right away, so be ready.

You can follow the whole cap on the Property Menu, under Personel. Save on each deck. If you lose your best marines, just reload. Let the poor trained marines die, and keep the good ones.

Each game I search ALL possible sources for marines. I usually find 15 to 25 that are 3 star or better in fighting. I train them in one central spot, usually the MO in Aladna, until they are 3 x 100, then give them fight training.

Good Luck!
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StarSword
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Post by StarSword » Thu, 8. Nov 12, 02:27

Lore-wise, my theory is that even if they don't have full-on internal sentry lasers, the ships have automated defenses that to kill your marines.

Because otherwise, it's down to your marines randomly deciding to shoot themselves, or having really bad aim. :lol:
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Post by Nanook » Thu, 8. Nov 12, 19:12

Success in each of the skills when boarding depends entirely on the total value of all the marines in that particular skill. In your case, you only have 5 marines, times 4 for the skill level, so a total fighting value of around 20. Compare that to the total you could've had using 21 marines at skill level 5, giving a total combat value of 105. Your guys have less than 20% of maximum, so they have a relatively high chance of failure. Even 20 2-star fighters would've been twice as likely to succeed.

The same would be true for the hacking skill, if they'd gotten that far. Morale of this is to send as many as you can, up to the maximum allowed to board.

Oh, and lore-wise, you have to count the regular crew of the ship as 'defenders', too, even though they aren't explicitly listed. Think of it as all those dozens or hundreds of crewmembers laying traps or otherwise interfering with your marines' progress.
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Post by StarSword » Thu, 8. Nov 12, 19:29

Nanook wrote:Oh, and lore-wise, you have to count the regular crew of the ship as 'defenders', too, even though they aren't explicitly listed. Think of it as all those dozens or hundreds of crewmembers laying traps or otherwise interfering with your marines' progress.
Oh, and lore-wise, the entire point of a Return Ship mission is that the ship became disabled and the crew abandoned it.

That's my point.
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Ailour
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Post by Ailour » Fri, 9. Nov 12, 00:54

That was my point too... i can claim it just fine, but capping it needs all these ppl?

Maybe i need to teach some manners to these marines!

Anyway, i didn't really spend more than a couple of tries, figuring out that i'd probably need a lot of marines for it. So, back to the drafting and training. Thank you for the advice!

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Post by Nanook » Fri, 9. Nov 12, 01:10

StarSword wrote:
Nanook wrote:Oh, and lore-wise, you have to count the regular crew of the ship as 'defenders', too, even though they aren't explicitly listed. Think of it as all those dozens or hundreds of crewmembers laying traps or otherwise interfering with your marines' progress.
Oh, and lore-wise, the entire point of a Return Ship mission is that the ship became disabled and the crew abandoned it.

That's my point.
Well, maybe there are others trying to steal it, too, and your marines have to fight them off. :wink:
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Kirlack
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Post by Kirlack » Fri, 9. Nov 12, 01:18

That's a bit of a stretch Nanook ;) It boils down to game mechanics. If you just claimed the ship it wouldn't be an issue. Since you're trying to board it though the standard boarding routines come into play and your mercs can and will die. Horribly :D

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Post by Nanook » Fri, 9. Nov 12, 01:31

Or, you can view it as the player having two options:

1. Board the ship with marines to give them some training against unknown potential ship stealers, or

2. Open all the airlocks using a security code given to you by the ship's owner, killing everyone left onboard.

I'm sure others can come up with somewhat plausible explanations for marine casualties, too, if reasons are needed. These are just mine.

The way I view the game is that much is left to the imagination of the player rather than explicitly, and rigidly, stated. There are many aspects of the game where you can do this to help the immersion. Or you can call it a failure of the devs to explain every little detail. Your game, your choice. I roleplay my games, so I prefer the imagination/immersion choice. :wink:
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Kirlack
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Post by Kirlack » Fri, 9. Nov 12, 01:37

I actually tend to go with the view that not every crew member abandoned ship, and lost mercs simply ran into a cluster of resistance. You know, a navigation officer with a rifle and too much whiskey :p

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Post by Nanook » Fri, 9. Nov 12, 01:42

That works, too. :D With Sigourney Weaver, aka Warrant Officer/Lieutenant Ripley as the navigation officer with a rifle. :wink:
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Post by Kirlack » Fri, 9. Nov 12, 01:47

Ah, but see if you're introducing Ripley to the equation then don't we also need to add in the Alien? In which case couldn't they be the sole reason half your mercs died? :D

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Post by Ailour » Sat, 10. Nov 12, 01:03

Update:

I managed to find a Heavy Nemesis as a "Return ship" mission target. I got it capped on the 1st try with 6 marines. Guess Alien hates cramped places :)
I did notice however that my marines didn't receive a star... the whole capping experience was too low for them?
Oh well, i bet it'll take a few more of those missions to make a difference in their fighting stats. The search continues...

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Post by StarSword » Sat, 10. Nov 12, 01:13

Ailour wrote:Update:

I managed to find a Heavy Nemesis as a "Return ship" mission target. I got it capped on the 1st try with 6 marines. Guess Alien hates cramped places :)
I did notice however that my marines didn't receive a star... the whole capping experience was too low for them?
Oh well, i bet it'll take a few more of those missions to make a difference in their fighting stats. The search continues...
I find that the best targets for marine training aren't return ship missions, but civilian TLs (the Argon Casino in Montalaar is a personal favorite). They're slow, unarmed, and easy pickings for an M7M. Your jarheads get practice, and you get a TL you can use to build stations or set up as a warehouse.
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Post by Snafu_X3 » Sat, 10. Nov 12, 02:50

My personal take is that untrained (in fighting) marines are far more likely to jump at shadows (resulting in them shooting each other) while wandering corridors; untrained mechs may fail in cutting hull; untrained engineers cause more damage wherever they go & untrained hackers have a binary fail switch.

All untrained marines take more time completing their objective than trained marines.
Ailour wrote:I managed to find a Heavy Nemesis as a "Return ship" mission target. I got it capped on the 1st try [..]I did notice however that my marines didn't receive a star
a) M6 has only 3 decks to fight through; b) Your marines will receive around 1d10+5 fight (only fight) points for every successful mission; a 'star' is roughly every 20 points (5 stars = 80-100 points)* - perhaps they didn't cross the threshold?

Personally I train on Arans or Atmo Lifters; I don't often need the money & the cargo space is always useful

*yes I know that's not accurate, but it's a brief simplification for what's going on here
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Ailour
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Post by Ailour » Sun, 11. Nov 12, 00:03

Damn... i forgot to mention that i do a roleplay type of game here. Goal is to reach extreme in trade while staying harmless in fight rank. Industrialist so far, game doesn't seem to be that hard (especially with yakis and most of the pirates being blue and me not stirring the hive below maelstrom :) I keep a low profile, no weapons on my vessels. Just trading stuff, one UT and a few factories.

Anyway, the whole capping thing isn't really my game this time. I just wanted to do some practice for the next game (one that will involve 1000's of Q's in debris) and get ready for that Xenon hunt.

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