Hey all,
I'm new to this game and have run into a bit of a problem.
I'm trying to do the Argon plot and am currently at the part where you need to escort someone through Nathan's Voyage.
However, the sector is absolutely filled with Xenon for some reason. There are 4 Q's, 3 PX's, a few P's, and a dozen or two L's/M's/N's as well as the Terrans that spawn for the mission itself.
Now, I only have a Skiron, a Centaur, 2 M8's (empty payloads), and an M3...not nearly enough to deal with that. Either I or the ship I'm supposed to get escorted gets destroyed within a couple minutes.
Any ideas on what I'm supposed to do? I think I read somewhere about a script that can be used to clear ships from a sector of necessary, but I'd like to avoid that (it may break the campaign).
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!
P.S. I apologize if an issue like this has been resolved before...I've been looking through and the search function doesn't seem to be much help...
EDIT: Don't know if it makes any difference, but I'm currently playing AP
Help with Xenon...
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EmperorJon
- Posts: 9378
- Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 08, 20:58
It seems you've just stumbled across a wandering Xenon fleet. They do that. 4 Qs is rather spectacular, but buying a few missiles for the M8s and flying in with the Skiron should be good enough... Depends on how good a pilot you are!
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I'm Jon. I'm mostly not around any more. If you want to talk, please message me! It's cool.
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I'm Jon. I'm mostly not around any more. If you want to talk, please message me! It's cool.
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EmperorJon wrote:It seems you've just stumbled across a wandering Xenon fleet. They do that. 4 Qs is rather spectacular, but buying a few missiles for the M8s and flying in with the Skiron should be good enough... Depends on how good a pilot you are!
Well...like I said, pretty new to the game so I'm probably not that good of a pilot. Another problem is when I jump in, I only have a few minutes before the ship that I need to escort spawns, so I don't think I could nuke down the fleet while having to babysit the other ship.
Will the fleet eventually leave after awhile or am I pretty much stuck trying what I can with missiles?
Also, what would you recommend loading up the M6/M8's with? I have some hornets and flail barrages. Are there better choices?
Been a while since I flew a Skiron, but if it fits Typhoon/Tornado missiles (and I think most if not all M6 do), then load up on those and take out the Qs and Ps/PXs. After that your Skiron should be more than capable of keeping the fighters occupied 
If you're not missile savvy, Typhoons are a swarm missile with targeting (fire and forget, they'll auto-track to target). I fire one for every 200Mj of shielding the target has, works well for me as a general rule. Tornadoes are dumbfire (fires in a single straight line and doesn't track), but if a target is heading straight for you and your aim is decent they can be devastating
Good luck!
If you're not missile savvy, Typhoons are a swarm missile with targeting (fire and forget, they'll auto-track to target). I fire one for every 200Mj of shielding the target has, works well for me as a general rule. Tornadoes are dumbfire (fires in a single straight line and doesn't track), but if a target is heading straight for you and your aim is decent they can be devastating
Good luck!
Madder than a bastard on Fathers Day
My DiD Stories: Peace(s) of Eight (Inactive) - Way of the Gun [KIA] - Status: Online (Active)
An Illustrated Idiots Guide to CLS
My DiD Stories: Peace(s) of Eight (Inactive) - Way of the Gun [KIA] - Status: Online (Active)
An Illustrated Idiots Guide to CLS
Commonwealth M8s can only use Tomahawk missiles, which are some of the best anti-capital munitions around. The Terran M8, the Claymore, can only use the Phantom Missile, which is roughly equivilant in role.
Flail Barrage Missiles are a missile unique to Commonwealth M7Ms, along with Hammer Heavy Torpedoes. Flails are mainly an anti-fighter missile, while the Hammers are used to down capitals in large barrages, much like the Tomahawks.
The fleet will leave after awhile, but if you're so inclined to take them on, Typhoons I've found are excellent for overwhelming a Q's defenses with sheer numbers; though it will take quite a lot to actually kill one, let alone 4. If you can mix in Firestorm Torpedoes or Hammerhead Heavy Missiles, with the Typhoons playing a distracting role, those will destroy a Q in short order, far as an M6 loadout goes. M8s are going to likely be your ideal solution for dealing with the fleet directly though. 1 barrage per Q should drop it, if I've done my math right, which would mean 32 Tomahawks total.
After that, the Skiron should be able to clean up everything left with a mix of Hornets/Typhoons for P/PXs, Wasps to chase down Ns, and your guns should be able to handle Ms and L/LXs if you can engage them in small groups. Tempest or Thunderbolt missiles would work well for dealing with L/LXs as well, if you prefer a missile oriented approach. Ms, I prefer Silkworms, but they're not perfect, usually taking 3-4 per M, in my experience.
Flail Barrage Missiles are a missile unique to Commonwealth M7Ms, along with Hammer Heavy Torpedoes. Flails are mainly an anti-fighter missile, while the Hammers are used to down capitals in large barrages, much like the Tomahawks.
The fleet will leave after awhile, but if you're so inclined to take them on, Typhoons I've found are excellent for overwhelming a Q's defenses with sheer numbers; though it will take quite a lot to actually kill one, let alone 4. If you can mix in Firestorm Torpedoes or Hammerhead Heavy Missiles, with the Typhoons playing a distracting role, those will destroy a Q in short order, far as an M6 loadout goes. M8s are going to likely be your ideal solution for dealing with the fleet directly though. 1 barrage per Q should drop it, if I've done my math right, which would mean 32 Tomahawks total.
After that, the Skiron should be able to clean up everything left with a mix of Hornets/Typhoons for P/PXs, Wasps to chase down Ns, and your guns should be able to handle Ms and L/LXs if you can engage them in small groups. Tempest or Thunderbolt missiles would work well for dealing with L/LXs as well, if you prefer a missile oriented approach. Ms, I prefer Silkworms, but they're not perfect, usually taking 3-4 per M, in my experience.
Alright, thanks for the advice guys. I'll give typhoons and tomahawks/hammerheads a try...never actually tried mass firing/barraging missiles before so we'll see how it goes.
The next question is where is the best place to get them? I've been jumping around to all sorts of outposts, factories, and docks and it's like the NPC economy is stagnated or something. Pretty much every munition stock is at 0 except for a few (HEPTs, mosquitos, and PPC's seem to always be stocked)
Is this normal and/or do I need to get a missile complex up immediately?
The next question is where is the best place to get them? I've been jumping around to all sorts of outposts, factories, and docks and it's like the NPC economy is stagnated or something. Pretty much every munition stock is at 0 except for a few (HEPTs, mosquitos, and PPC's seem to always be stocked)
Is this normal and/or do I need to get a missile complex up immediately?
You can use the in-game encyclopedia to see all currently discovered factories and docks that stock them. Just find the missile, and scroll to the bottom for the list. Checking stock at the time, however, has to be done manually.
If you can't quickly find a stock of them, I'd say just let the Xenon pass. While making a complex to support missile boats is a good idea eventually, there's no reason to rush the production for one fleet that will likely be gone by the time you churn out enough warheads to deal with it.
For barraging, it's a command unique to M8s/M7Ms, different than just spamming the launch key for missiles, which you can do for all ships, which is of course limited by the missile refire rate.
If you can't quickly find a stock of them, I'd say just let the Xenon pass. While making a complex to support missile boats is a good idea eventually, there's no reason to rush the production for one fleet that will likely be gone by the time you churn out enough warheads to deal with it.
For barraging, it's a command unique to M8s/M7Ms, different than just spamming the launch key for missiles, which you can do for all ships, which is of course limited by the missile refire rate.
Yah, this is basically what I've been doing. It's just that 99/100 times when I go to check the station is completely out of stock. I wasn't sure if munitions are supposed to be this scarce, if there are lulls in the economy, or if something was just off about my game in particular.Nyito wrote:You can use the in-game encyclopedia to see all currently discovered factories and docks that stock them. Just find the missile, and scroll to the bottom for the list. Checking stock at the time, however, has to be done manually.
...
It's pretty common for some fabs to be out of stock all the time. There's holes in the X economy, specifically so the player has niches to fill. As a result, some fabs just don't get resources, and so can never produce, and some that can produce, get their stock bought out by NPCs as well. You could set up some freighters to try to feed the fabs, but again, that would take a long while, and wouldn't help with your immediate situation.
Can these "holes" expand to the point where the entire universe's economy kind of grinds to a halt?
I ask because you said some fabs, whereas pretty much all of the ones I go to are completely out of just about everything.
Pretty much all equipment docks, military outposts, and HQ's have next to nothing. I'm looking at the Atreus HQ in Queen's Harbor and it literally has nothing in it. Zero stock for everything...
I ask because you said some fabs, whereas pretty much all of the ones I go to are completely out of just about everything.
Pretty much all equipment docks, military outposts, and HQ's have next to nothing. I'm looking at the Atreus HQ in Queen's Harbor and it literally has nothing in it. Zero stock for everything...
It'll never grind to a full halt, because the GoD engine will replace some critical fabs, and GoD generated power plants don't use crystals, they produce without resources, so there will always be an Ecell supply to power everything else. It can however be downsized heavily, to the point NPCs consume faster than the fabs produce.... but that takes a very, very long time with no player intervention at all to happen; if it ever does. It's possible for some areas to be choked for resources, the sector bloc in the upper right typically is because of constant Xenon migrations massacring trade traffic. The Boron sectors in the bottom right can often be choked a bit as well, due to the Split on one side, and frequent Pirate and Xenon raids to the north.
You said some fabs are constantly full, HEPTs, Mosquitoes, PPCs, this shows there's some degree of resource flow still. I dunno how much of the universe you've explored, but hunt around, see where things are stocked, and where things are suffocating, then look deeper. Is it a lack of fabs, or ships in the area to trade have been repeatedly wiped out by pirate patrols? Both are opportunities for you, in setting up your own traders, or building fabs to to supply, or both.
The GoD engine will also, however, remove NPC fabs that do very little business, that are constantly full or empty of resources and products, as they're just taking up space, or potentially hogging all the resources from a fab that might actually do business. This happening enough for the entire universe to effectively grind to a halt however is highly unlikely.
As for how to fix it, I tend to maintain a fairly large automated trader fleet, which helps keep the universe's economy stimulated. More advanced techniques, I'd have to leave to those smarter than I.
You said some fabs are constantly full, HEPTs, Mosquitoes, PPCs, this shows there's some degree of resource flow still. I dunno how much of the universe you've explored, but hunt around, see where things are stocked, and where things are suffocating, then look deeper. Is it a lack of fabs, or ships in the area to trade have been repeatedly wiped out by pirate patrols? Both are opportunities for you, in setting up your own traders, or building fabs to to supply, or both.
The GoD engine will also, however, remove NPC fabs that do very little business, that are constantly full or empty of resources and products, as they're just taking up space, or potentially hogging all the resources from a fab that might actually do business. This happening enough for the entire universe to effectively grind to a halt however is highly unlikely.
As for how to fix it, I tend to maintain a fairly large automated trader fleet, which helps keep the universe's economy stimulated. More advanced techniques, I'd have to leave to those smarter than I.
I have most of the universe explored and it's pretty much like how I described all over the place.
I wanted to avoid a sector or universe trader fleet simply because of the losses through pirates and xenon, but from what I've read around here on the forums they're still generally profitable even with the occasional loss. I guess I'll just (slowly) start a trader fleet and see if that breathes some life back into everything. If not, maybe there's a mod or script I can run that'll kick-start it.
Either way, I really appreciate the help. This game has a ridiculous learning curve and I'm still trying to get the ins and outs of it all.
I wanted to avoid a sector or universe trader fleet simply because of the losses through pirates and xenon, but from what I've read around here on the forums they're still generally profitable even with the occasional loss. I guess I'll just (slowly) start a trader fleet and see if that breathes some life back into everything. If not, maybe there's a mod or script I can run that'll kick-start it.
Either way, I really appreciate the help. This game has a ridiculous learning curve and I'm still trying to get the ins and outs of it all.
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Bill Huntington
- Posts: 2493
- Joined: Mon, 2. Feb 09, 17:34
Cloning
bps1804, there is a solution to your problem. It is called cloning. If you have one of the item you want, you can make as many as you want. Some pilots do it, some call it an exploit and don’t do it. It is allowed by the rules, and has been part of TC for a very long time. So it is your choice. You do pay an average price for the items, and have to buy some ships that you might not want.
You go to a sector with a Military Outpost that lists the item in its menu. The MO has to be in a sector with a SY. For Tomahawk, I would use Rhonkar’s Trial, mostly because I like Split ships. Other possible sectors are Kingdom End, Depths, CEO Sprite, and M148.
It has to be a regular menu item if you are going to clone it. Get a ship to the MO with the item you want cloned. (Since it is a regular menu item, they might already have some.) Don’t put them in until you are ready to do the whole operation immediately. A trader could come in and grab them if you wait. When you are ready, sell the item at the MO and it will show in the menu. Save before you start!
Then select the SY, and get to their menu. Buy 2 Caimans, not 10. You select 10 and use the arrow keys to get the number down to 2. You could choose 10, but you don’t need that many, and choosing 2 keeps expenses down. Don’t end the process until you have bought everything you want, including what you want for the Caiman. It’s a good TS and will need its own shields, weapons, and software, but not everything is there.
You buy 1 Tomahawk, and it becomes 2 (total) in your ships, 1 in each. You sell it back, and it becomes 2 in the menu. You buy the 2 and it becomes the 4 total, 2 in each ship. You sell back 2 and it becomes 4. When you have 16 in each ship, you sell back 8, and keep buying 8 until you have what you want. You do this until the ship is full, or you reach the number you want. It is a little confusing at first, but make sure the transaction is completed each time by pressing Return. The display takes a little getting used to, because of the way it shows. So press Return to complete the process.
If you are going to sell the ship back, don’t buy anything extra.
Good Hunting!
You go to a sector with a Military Outpost that lists the item in its menu. The MO has to be in a sector with a SY. For Tomahawk, I would use Rhonkar’s Trial, mostly because I like Split ships. Other possible sectors are Kingdom End, Depths, CEO Sprite, and M148.
It has to be a regular menu item if you are going to clone it. Get a ship to the MO with the item you want cloned. (Since it is a regular menu item, they might already have some.) Don’t put them in until you are ready to do the whole operation immediately. A trader could come in and grab them if you wait. When you are ready, sell the item at the MO and it will show in the menu. Save before you start!
Then select the SY, and get to their menu. Buy 2 Caimans, not 10. You select 10 and use the arrow keys to get the number down to 2. You could choose 10, but you don’t need that many, and choosing 2 keeps expenses down. Don’t end the process until you have bought everything you want, including what you want for the Caiman. It’s a good TS and will need its own shields, weapons, and software, but not everything is there.
You buy 1 Tomahawk, and it becomes 2 (total) in your ships, 1 in each. You sell it back, and it becomes 2 in the menu. You buy the 2 and it becomes the 4 total, 2 in each ship. You sell back 2 and it becomes 4. When you have 16 in each ship, you sell back 8, and keep buying 8 until you have what you want. You do this until the ship is full, or you reach the number you want. It is a little confusing at first, but make sure the transaction is completed each time by pressing Return. The display takes a little getting used to, because of the way it shows. So press Return to complete the process.
If you are going to sell the ship back, don’t buy anything extra.
Good Hunting!
Bill in S.F., enjoying the game
Re: Help with Xenon...
perhaps instead of nuking the Xenon fleet you can just try to take out the ships that get in the path of the ship you're escorting. You're job isn't to kill the fleet right? Just get the ship to where it has to go. If the route takes the ship you're escorting right in the middle of the fleet though you can also try distraction and lure the enemy fleet out of the way. I recommend using a quick M3 for this though because of manueverablity and speed, an M4 COULD work too but they won'tlast long against heavy fie power if you get to close. If you can get one with a rear turret to bat away missiles that would be a bonus.bps1804 wrote:Hey all,
I'm new to this game and have run into a bit of a problem.
I'm trying to do the Argon plot and am currently at the part where you need to escort someone through Nathan's Voyage.
However, the sector is absolutely filled with Xenon for some reason. There are 4 Q's, 3 PX's, a few P's, and a dozen or two L's/M's/N's as well as the Terrans that spawn for the mission itself.
Now, I only have a Skiron, a Centaur, 2 M8's (empty payloads), and an M3...not nearly enough to deal with that. Either I or the ship I'm supposed to get escorted gets destroyed within a couple minutes.
Any ideas on what I'm supposed to do? I think I read somewhere about a script that can be used to clear ships from a sector of necessary, but I'd like to avoid that (it may break the campaign).
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!
P.S. I apologize if an issue like this has been resolved before...I've been looking through and the search function doesn't seem to be much help...
EDIT: Don't know if it makes any difference, but I'm currently playing AP
Well the good news is that when I went back, most of the Xenon fleet had left. Only had to take down a Q, a P, and a handful of fighters. The typhoons and tomahawks worked wonderfully.
The bad news is that even with the UT traders I've tried, I'm fairly sure the entire economy has more or less collapsed. Nothing except energy and ore seem to be producing and they aren't being traded at all...
So, I've just decided to restart. It sucks to lose all those hours and hours of playtime, but I found a script (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=315051) that let me choose what I want to have at the beginning of a new game, so I just gave myself the ships, credits, and complex I had and reset my race relations to what they were. Unfortunately, I have to start back at the first combat and trade ranks, as well as restarting the plots, but that's not really too big of a deal.
Also, I tried the cloning trick and it wasn't working, so I think they took that out (or I was just doing it wrong).
The bad news is that even with the UT traders I've tried, I'm fairly sure the entire economy has more or less collapsed. Nothing except energy and ore seem to be producing and they aren't being traded at all...
So, I've just decided to restart. It sucks to lose all those hours and hours of playtime, but I found a script (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=315051) that let me choose what I want to have at the beginning of a new game, so I just gave myself the ships, credits, and complex I had and reset my race relations to what they were. Unfortunately, I have to start back at the first combat and trade ranks, as well as restarting the plots, but that's not really too big of a deal.
Also, I tried the cloning trick and it wasn't working, so I think they took that out (or I was just doing it wrong).