[AP] Which Missiles Don't Have Player Obtainable Factories?

[RoverTX]

I know the following don't have corresponding player factory

Banshee
Beluga
Boarding Pod
Disruptor
Firelance
Ghoul
Hammerhead
Rapier
Remote Guided Warhead
Spectre
Wildfire
Windstalker

Am I missing anything or mistaken about one of these missiles having a factory?

[bizbag]

Looks like you're right on the money.

It's a pity, too. I can understand some things like the Beluga, which is rather OP for its class, but most of the other weapons fit in the balance.

The biggest atrocity is the Ghoul, though. That alone almost completely obviates the use of the Skirnir in Albion Prelude since the Shadow is no longer the ridiculous 8-warhead death delivery it was in TC. Why use the Skirnir when you can't source its Flails effectively?

On a related note, does anyone find it odd that the Beluga, a Terran missile dating back to X:BTF, is only usable by the commonwealth?

[thyco]

i think it would be good if we saw another minor patch that would fix some of those issues (like the ghoul and beluga) but also change the M/AML to be more powerful ( akin to light frigate level) so that terran M6s and M7 have abit more teeth excluding the spitfyre and springblossum since they use experimental M/AMLs

I dont think we should have the option of building or purchasing hammerhead missiles since they can be fired from a lot of ships and do stupids amounts of damage (1.2mil)

[bizbag]

i think it would be good if we saw another minor patch that would fix some of those issues (like the ghoul and beluga) but also change the M/AML to be more powerful ( akin to light frigate level) so that terran M6s and M7 have abit more teeth excluding the spitfyre and springblossum since they use experimental M/AMLs

I dont think we should have the option of building or purchasing hammerhead missiles since they can be fired from a lot of ships and do stupids amounts of damage (1.2mil)

Agreed; the Hammerhead is probably OP. The Wildfire is fine, but probably should weigh more than 1 S cargo space, considering its anti-M4 capabilities.

To be honest, most of these missiles are basically equivalent to other existing missiles, albeit with far longer range and usually lower speed; e.g. the Banshee to the Thunderbolt. I presume they're intended for use by the AI against the player, which is fine, except for all the corporation missions that request them (which don't exist in AP, natch).

[kurush]

The biggest atrocity is the Ghoul, though. That alone almost completely obviates the use of the Skirnir in Albion Prelude since the Shadow is no longer the ridiculous 8-warhead death delivery it was in TC. Why use the Skirnir when you can't source its Flails effectively?

Just an FYI: you can still capture a TL with a Ghoul factory. I collected Ghoul, M/AM Warhead, and EEMPC factories this way and had no problems with my fleet of Skirnirs.

[bizbag]

The biggest atrocity is the Ghoul, though. That alone almost completely obviates the use of the Skirnir in Albion Prelude since the Shadow is no longer the ridiculous 8-warhead death delivery it was in TC. Why use the Skirnir when you can't source its Flails effectively?

Just an FYI: you can still capture a TL with a Ghoul factory. I collected Ghoul, M/AM Warhead, and EEMPC factories this way and had no problems with my fleet of Skirnirs.

How quickly does a Ghoul factory produce missiles? Is one enough? I imagine it would be, but I still like having ~5-8 factories making my missiles.

[LTerSlash]

The spectre also hurt the terrans...

I dont get it, why remove those fabs? there are not M/AM warheads fabs either, Terran missiles are generaly crap, Poltergeist, as anti-figher is VERY bad, especially VS M3, Spectres, the heavy hitters vs M3 and M6 there is not longers fabs for player, Wraiths, the Terran version of the Typhoon is highly inferior, Ghouls have no fabs for player... i mean, seriusly? i dont get WHY limit terran missiles in that way...

[bizbag]

The spectre also hurt the terrans...

I dont get it, why remove those fabs? there are not M/AM warheads fabs either, Terran missiles are generaly crap, Poltergeist, as anti-figher is VERY bad, especially VS M3, Spectres, the heavy hitters vs M3 and M6 there is not longers fabs for player, Wraiths, the Terran version of the Typhoon is highly inferior, Ghouls have no fabs for player... i mean, seriusly? i dont get WHY limit terran missiles in that way...

The Wraith does over quadruple the Typhoon's damage. It has more in common with the Firestorm, except arguably more useful thanks to being a swarm. Agreed on the Poltergeists, though. They only really are good against M4s

[kurush]

How quickly does a Ghoul factory produce missiles? Is one enough? I imagine it would be, but I still like having ~5-8 factories making my missiles.

I think it has about the same production rate as flail missile factory. I had one and I didn't feel that I need more for my two Skirnirs. They were not the only M7Ms in my fleet though. One M/AM warhead factory is definitely enough, I had a huge overstock.

[LTerSlash]

The spectre also hurt the terrans...

I dont get it, why remove those fabs? there are not M/AM warheads fabs either, Terran missiles are generaly crap, Poltergeist, as anti-figher is VERY bad, especially VS M3, Spectres, the heavy hitters vs M3 and M6 there is not longers fabs for player, Wraiths, the Terran version of the Typhoon is highly inferior, Ghouls have no fabs for player... i mean, seriusly? i dont get WHY limit terran missiles in that way...

The Wraith does over quadruple the Typhoon's damage. It has more in common with the Firestorm, except arguably more useful thanks to being a swarm. Agreed on the Poltergeists, though. They only really are good against M4s

Wraiths are 100% useless, it has 125K damage BUT, is very slow, has a even higher cooldown than a Firestorm (6.000MS), it also has an small range (51KM), and to add to it is a bit dumb.

I tryied to use it VS M8, VS M6... 100% ineffective, vs bigger targets are even useless because they are too slow and get intercepted even even if no, the short range and high cooldown does not help.

Typhoons are MUCH more effective... it has less damage, but bigger range (70km), higer speed and 2000ms cooldown... i can kill everything with typhoons, even Thunderbolts are more effective than Wraiths at least they can deal with the M8.

[bizbag]

Wraiths are 100% useless, it has 125K damage BUT, is very slow, has a even higher cooldown than a Firestorm (6.000MS), it also has an small range (51KM), and to add to it is a bit dumb.

I tryied to use it VS M8, VS M6... 100% ineffective, vs bigger targets are even useless because they are too slow and get intercepted even even if no, the short range and high cooldown does not help.

100% sounds awfully high, especially considering most ships cannot use both missiles. Granted, if you have a choice, you are allowed to prefer one missile over the other.

What I mean is, I would avoid outright dismissing Terran missiles on the premise that they are inferior to Commonwealth ones. The Wraith is certainly useful to the Terran ships that cannot wield the Firestorm. After all, the Point Singularity Projector is mostly inferior to the Photon Pulse Cannon, but it's far from "100% useless". It's incredibly useful to the Terran capital ships that can only wield it. Granted, the power of the weapons does play into whether the ships are useful.

What I DO agree with is dismissing Terran missiles based on objective performance. The Poltergeist simply doesn't have the speed or damage to effectively combat anything except M4s.

It seems you have a similar experience with the Wraith - you seem to feel it is ineffective against medium size craft (M8, M6) due to its speed, and ineffective against Capital ships (M7, M2, M1) due to relatively low speed and high interception.

There actually is only one M8/6 that can actually outrun the Wraith outright, but I imagine most would be able to dodge it and pick off several warheads. This is unfortunate, but M6s and M8s are particularly difficult to kill with many missiles; they're fast enough and tough enough to defend against them, and M8s can fire defensive Mosquitos quickly. Their weakness is usually heavy lasers, especially M8s.

I'm not entirely sure why you think the Wraith is useless against capitals. You mention that they are intercepted, but I'd think the Swarm capability would help prevent that. You don't elaborate on that point, so I don't really know what you mean.

It might perhaps be enlightening to us to look at the ships that make use of the Wraith to see how it's meant to be used. The Hyperion seems to be a bit of an aberration; in this case, other choices of missile are often superior.

The USC and ATF M6s and M7 craft ships are users of the Wraith. None of these ships have heavy lasers available for attacking enemy capital ships, but carry very powerful anti-fighter and anti-corvette lasers. I'd suggest that the Wraith is intended to be their anti-capital weapon. All of the ships are well-shielded; perhaps they are meant to be used at closer range than the Firestorm and other weapons; fired from close proximity, combined with the Swarm feature, perhaps they most can hit their targets?

The missile is also used by the M2s and M1, of course. Other than simply magnifying their anti-capital power, I can't see a particular reason to justify the Wraith's qualities. The ships' lasers and carried fighters seem to serve the anti-fighter and anti-corvette roles. The Wraith seems here to serve the same function as the Firestorm does on Commonwealth ships.

Essentially, while I can see as well as you that the Wraith is mathematically inferior in several respects to similar missiles, I disagree that it is "100% useless".

[LTerSlash]

Firestorm has 1M damage, it is faster, and has doble range, plus less cooldown too, is not swarm so chances are it will never hit.

If the missile of that type cant kill an M6/M8 or anything less them what is supposes to be the use? i can kill M6, M8, M3, M7, even M2 and M1 with Typhoons.

Sometimes i launch 3 Wraith to a M8 and still is not dead... not to mention the time it takes them to get to the target and the short range...

On Terran ships i dont have other choices.... on commonwealth i have the Hornet, the Thunderbolt, the Typhoon, i dont use the Firestorm because it never hits, its a mostly missile to be used vs stations by M6-M7.

The Wraith needs minimum to have the same cooldown than the Typhoon.

[DrBullwinkle]

Wraith is a swarm *torpedo*. It does as much damage as a Firestorm (8x 125) but has a much higher chance of penetrating flak defense. Its intended targets are M7 and larger ships.

To launch a Wraith at an M8, then declare Wraith "useless", is absurd. That would be like calling a PPC "useless" because it cannot hit an M5.

[bizbag]

Wraith is a swarm *torpedo*. It does as much damage as a Firestorm (8x 125) but has a much higher chance of penetrating flak defense. Its intended targets are M7 and larger ships.

To launch a Wraith at an M8, then declare Wraith "useless", is absurd. That would be like calling a PPC "useless" because it cannot hit an M5.

This is kind of what I was trying to get across. Its biggest weakness is its long cooldown (Six seconds? Feh!), but otherwise, yeah.