An experiment with factory sizes.

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RoverTX
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An experiment with factory sizes.

Post by RoverTX » Sun, 23. Dec 12, 01:49

Methodology

First off factory size is really a number value, this number scales directly with how much a factory produces and consumes.

Normal = 1
Medium = 2
Large = 5
X Large = 10
XX Large >= 11

So a large factory produces and consumes 2.5 more then a Medium factory.

5/2 = 2.5

Knowing this I decided to increase all factories by a factor of 5. So I times all the current sizes times 5. Which means

Normal = 1 * 5 = 5 = Large
Medium = 2 * 5 = 10 = XL
Large = 5 * 5 = 25 = XXL
X Large = 10 * 5 = 50 = XXL

Sense the only XL factories are solar plants I just renamed the Solar Plants, Solar Plants S (Super). Which means they appear in game as Solar Plants S XXL.

I then went into the jobs file, found all the traders, and times their Max Job numbers times 5 along with their max jobs in sector by 5 also. Though sometimes I rounded up or down when seemingly appropriated.




Reasoning

My reason for doing this are as follows.

1. I wont have to build as crazy amount of stations to create a complex. So instead of a complex having 120 stations it will have about 24. This kind of piggy backs off the Complex Cleaner mod idea, while still leaving the normal piping in place, and the normal complex feel, with out forcing a whole sector to be filled with FPS breaking stations and tubes.

2. I wont have to put mines on 20 different riods and drag them through sector, will only have to do it to 4.

3. There should be more weapons available now across the universe with all the factories, even the computer only ones, being 5 times bigger. There should be 5 times as many weapons and shields available.

4. Should make trading at lower level easier, sense you should be able to more often fill up your whole cargo bay and sell your whole cargo bay more often. IE more bigger trade runs and less small ones, sense the universe will just have more goods in it. UT should also be making more money this way even with the scaled competition.




Questions

Ok here is why I posted this. I want ya'll opinions on the following possible issues.

1. Sense there is going to be 5 times as much goods in the universe should I make 5X as many Trading Stations, Equipment Docks, Military Bases, and Pirate Bases? I am afraid if I don't there wont be enough places to sell the end goods. Or is there some way to scale there available space?

2a. Should I scale the price of the factories by X5, or should I scale by more to take into the account the ease gained, or should it be less then X5 because of the investment barrier that would create?

2b. What would be the best way to scale price. I was thinking of writing a Java or Ruby script using a CSV parsing library and just telling to do PLAYERPRICE * 5 then save the file, but is there a cleaner way to do that with Price Modifier 1 and Price Modifier 2?

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apricotslice
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Post by apricotslice » Sun, 23. Dec 12, 11:54

The larger the station, the longer it takes to produce anything.

Yes, you get higher yeilds, but they take significantly higher time to make.

So everything is going to take at least 5 times longer to produce. And each station will need 5 times the resources in stock to begin a cycle.

In the short term, the universe will run out of key product.(imo). This could stall the whole economy, becuase their wont be enough of key products available to ever allow cycles to begin on most advanced products.

I did XXL stations back in X3R, and I eventually scrapped them and went back to conventional usage. While the number of stations is gross at times, normal stations produce without stopping. XL stations could be hard to get started, and often paused between cycles, long enough to cause problems, which only having normal stations doing the same thing fixed in the long run. Even when I use XL SPP's, I tend to put in a large and medium as well, just so production of ecells never stops. XXXL SPP's are going to be a huge pain to supply.

I cant answer your questions though. I'd suggest you try it and see what the economy does. If it tanks, your questions are redundant anyway. If it doesnt, then you can see what will be needed to keep up with it.

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Litcube
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Post by Litcube » Sun, 23. Dec 12, 15:16

This is a bad idea. It will seriously throw the balance of your economy out the window. The benefits you're expecting will not come.

Also, "Since".

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RoverTX
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Post by RoverTX » Sun, 23. Dec 12, 18:06

I never had any real trouble with the XXL factories produced by the complex cleaner so I wasn't that worried about the increase needed in the amount of resources, or the time need. But I could see how this could throw the NPC traders off. Thanks apricotslice just the type of feedback I was looking for thanks! :D

A few more points.

1. @Litcube Sorry my grammar sucks. I admit it. I am sorry. You win. I loose. :roll: I could pull out my medically documented language disability, which contributes to my terrible grammar, but that might make you feel like a jerk. :P

2a. @apricotslice How did you test it for failure?

2b. @apricotslice Did you also try scaling the trader Jobs files like I have?

2c. @apricotslice If it does throw the NPC traders off do you think that there could be some easy tweaks to the free trader jobs script to make it work? Or maybe a reduction in the idle stat in the jobs file?

-----------------

Edit: Went through and test a few things. Jumped to an Unkown Sector and went to 10X Seta, and then wait an hour. Everything was getting moved but Ore, Silicon, and Food (though bio was getting moved fine). There was plenty of these goods for sale, it was just no one was buying them and selling them. So I think I need to add more Mineral traders, and food traders, while at the same time making sure the new ones are super frieghters so they can handle the large loads.

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apricotslice
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Post by apricotslice » Mon, 24. Dec 12, 02:25

I wasnt doing it for NPC, just for player, and it failed simply because I couldnt keep production running smoothly, where a normal complex does run smoothly.

No, I didnt do anything with trader jobs. But in theory, if you simply up the number of each trader job that can run at once, this might solve any problem. How many can run is just a number, changable in the jobs editor or the jobs editor in X3editor2.

I doubt you need to change the script itself. Just schedule more ships, and as you said, change the job ecell, food and dirt jobs to use superfreighters.

A comment about CC, for some reason the problems I outlined before dont seem to happen with CC. I'm not sure what is changed in the coding for CC, but there is a real difference between CC large stations, and changing all stations. Something in CC prevents the problems of large stations not starting cycles in timely fashion.

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RoverTX
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Post by RoverTX » Mon, 24. Dec 12, 17:50

Finally got it so that most factories where getting what they needed (Energy and Ore needed way more then just 5 times, more like 8, I guess the imbalances in traders get times X5 also...). But Well it turns out that the amount of jobs needed to have things run smoothly in the Economy is causing my game to run way slower lol....

Capping out at 45 when in sectors with traders, there are just too many trader running around. I think I need to go back to the drawing board.

First off I am going to try reducing the number of traders but making it so that there are more Super Friend XL traders, and less normal TS and M3 traders.

Also does anyone know how to modify how much a dock can hold? Or is that hard coded?

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Litcube
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Post by Litcube » Mon, 24. Dec 12, 17:56

RoverTX wrote:Also does anyone know how to modify how much a dock can hold? Or is that hard coded?
You can modify how much a dock holds in the globals file. I think it's the last entry. It's a multiplier.

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apricotslice
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Post by apricotslice » Tue, 25. Dec 12, 00:17

The other suggestion I'd make is to return to the normal amount of traders, but the key ships they use, double or triple their haulage capasity. So that an ecell carrier is moving 30-50k at a time, same with food.

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Litcube
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Post by Litcube » Tue, 25. Dec 12, 00:19

You could also just half the RelVal of all wares.

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apricotslice
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Post by apricotslice » Tue, 25. Dec 12, 00:29

Litcube wrote:You could also just half the RelVal of all wares.
What will that do ?

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Litcube
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Post by Litcube » Tue, 25. Dec 12, 00:32

The same thing as doubling all station sizes.

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RoverTX
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Post by RoverTX » Tue, 25. Dec 12, 07:46

Fun fact. Making 5 times as many traders makes the sectors so crowded that the following can't handle it.

Asus Z77 Thunderbolt Pro Mother Board.
2 X EVGA 680 GTX Geforce 4GB SLI
Intel i7 3770k Over cloaked to 4.5GHz
16 GB of ram
and a Samsung SSD.
Capping out at 30 FPS in busy sectors....... :o

Going to reduce the number of traders, but increase capacity by making them all Uber XLs, or at least more of them Uber XLs. Never made sense to me why people where trying to trade in a Nova anyway.....

Will also make it so they have more cargo bay extensions by making sure that number is always at 100%. I figure that will bring the average freight size from about 2500(Just assuming its that low when you figure in all the novas) to about 10000 which is most of the battle right there.

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