[X3:AP] Do turrets lead targets?

[Blaank]

(I searched around for twenty minutes and ten threads checking the forums and could not find any turret thread that addressed this.)

Do turrets lead their targets in vanilla X3:AP?

I've been unable to tell for sure if they lead targets or not. They do fire at ships that have a large lead according to my main guns but the ships take no damage. I'm not sure if the enemy ships don't take any damage due to not leading, missing because of evasive maneuvers, or doing exactly enough damage to keep the shield at the same point. My turrets do hit targets if they are stationary, or coming directly towards or away from me. That's why I'm suspicious if they lead or not. I cannot tell by watching the laser if it is hitting the target or missing. This happens against all ship types. I am using a weapon that has 2000m/s speed in my turrets and using only that type of weapon.

[Master of the Blade]

Yes, all AI controlled weapons will lead their target. However, bullet speeds are so slow on the whole that any small change in the target's course will result in a miss. This is especially noticable with weapons like the ISR against fighters.

[Gazz]

(I searched around for twenty minutes and ten threads checking the forums and could not find any turret thread that addressed this.)

That's because few ever ask clear and specific questions that are a joy to answer.

You can mix lasers in one physical turret and they will still use their individual target lead prediction.


That the TLP was never told about the "drift" feature of X3's flight mechanics is not it's fault. =)

[Blaank]

So they are mostly missing because they only check speed and orientation during lead calculations? And not checking if they are turning and factoring that into the prediction as well?

In short, if a ship is turning, the AI will fire at where the ship would be if it were going in a straight line, thus missing all shots.?

[Carlo the Curious]

Yes.

And as Gazz mentions, they don't handle strafing at all.

[Gazz]

Which is why a capital ship at long range will miss you by something like 3 km if you use strafing.

[Killjaeden]

So they are mostly missing because they only check speed and orientation during lead calculations? And not checking if they are turning and factoring that into the prediction as well?

Yes that's how leading works... predicting where the target will be next. Turning also changes constantly, so it wouldn't be much better if it was calculated. Predicting =! Knowing.
You could analyze the flightpattern of AI ships and propably write a script that determines the future position, but that would be cheating essentially.

[Gazz]

You could analyze the flightpattern of AI ships and propably write a script that determines the future position, but that would be cheating essentially.

It's not easy. I tried. Computers are terrible at guessing.
Best you can do is judge the rate of course change... which is part of how MARS picks the juiciest targets. (from a turret's perspective)

A turning capital ship (Hah! You call that turning?) might still warrant a barrage of PPC bullets while a turning fighter at medium range might cease to be a target for anything but Flak bullets.
A fighter doing a nice, straight attack run on me? Oh YUMMY!

[Blaank]

I would like a really minimal script that changes turret AI to take into account the rate of turn in the shot lead calculations. The one thing vanilla doesn't do that makes everything miss. I don't want a mod with lots of extra stuff, but I may have to deal with that.

Are there any such mods that change this one aspect of turret AI, and if so what are they?

Thank you for the help. I know what I'm dealing with now.

[DeathKnight505]

You can use this to your advantage as well when using a Capital against a Capital while using the WASD keys at random and at long range, Yes the AI will still make hits but only about a third of the time

[pref]

I would like a really minimal script that changes turret AI to take into account the rate of turn in the shot lead calculations. The one thing vanilla doesn't do that makes everything miss. I don't want a mod with lots of extra stuff, but I may have to deal with that.

Are there any such mods that change this one aspect of turret AI, and if so what are they?

Thank you for the help. I know what I'm dealing with now.

I think what you want here is some kind of jedi power that would tell you exactly what your opponent is planning to do in the next few secs. Its just not possible. AI can change its course any time just like you, thus invalidatig any previous prediction. Regardless if it was done by the AI or your own brain.

Or you could use beam weapons (at least in TC), they dont need time to hit the target, so no need to predict there

[jack775544]

I would like a really minimal script that changes turret AI to take into account the rate of turn in the shot lead calculations. The one thing vanilla doesn't do that makes everything miss. I don't want a mod with lots of extra stuff, but I may have to deal with that.

Are there any such mods that change this one aspect of turret AI, and if so what are they?

Thank you for the help. I know what I'm dealing with now.

It's not exactly small but you could try MARS. If there is something that you want a turret script to do then this script can do it.

[Alan Phipps]

.... Gazz said above "It's not easy. I tried. Computers are terrible at guessing. Best you can do is judge the rate of course change... which is part of how MARS picks the juiciest targets. (from a turret's perspective)
" Also Gazz developed MARS.