The murderer of immersion: randomly lost fighters

[Tolmos]

This problem seems to plague me far more in Albion Prelude than I ever remember from TC or Reunion. >_> I'll send off 5 fighters to patrol a sector, or defend one of my TSs... and 3 will return. Not once did they run into trouble- no pirates or Xenon or Kha'ak... no no. They were destroyed by each other, or by a station that just happened to get in the way, or by the very TS they were meant to protect! ;_;

The losses can get expensive when you are making your start. 2-4mil here and there starts to add up when you don't have a ton of money (plus the time it takes to repurchase all the modules and equipment).

Le sigh. I have no luck when it comes to AI piloted fighters. I've lost 3-4x more fighters to random bumping into stuff than I have to combat situations ;_;

/cry

[sadron]

Unless you are in-system with them it is literally impossible for them to get destroyed by a station, as you put it, in their way. There is absolutely no way they destroyed each other.

[Tolmos]

My message log declared both fighters to have been lost by "Your Baldric Miner", one after the other.

[Vayde]

When you are In Sector (IS) with the ships, the game has collision detection turned on. Due to the ai being a bit (Insert favourite term here) you can and will loose ships in any formation.

If your formation has some fast m5 or m4 ships, then these are prime candidates for being bugs on a windscreen. They tend to buzz about a lot and never stay in formation leading to the collisions and destruction you see.

As a work around you could try only using slower m3 class ships for patrols and escorts, generally keeping them all roughly at the same speed, but that normally makes the patrol far more expensive than the goods and freighter they are protecting.

In my early game starts I usually have a heavily shielded m3 with 3 other m3's running sector patrols. The heavy takes the lead role and the others are set to attack it's target. Once I have acquired an m6 or 2 they take the role of patrol leaders.

I only run patrol groups in sectors where I have factories or complexes, my complexes also have a stationary wing set to defend the complex hub.

[Morkonan]

My message log declared both fighters to have been lost by "Your Baldric Miner", one after the other.

If it was due to a collision, it could only have happened when you were in the same zone as all involved.

Were these fighters ships that you had purchased, yourself?

[TTD]

I never send fighters to protect my trade ships.

They will have drones and jumpdrive etc.

[EmperorJon]

I just use M6s as Mk3s now. It's expensive and inefficient, but they survive better.

[Tolmos]

My message log declared both fighters to have been lost by "Your Baldric Miner", one after the other.

If it was due to a collision, it could only have happened when you were in the same zone as all involved.

Were these fighters ships that you had purchased, yourself?

The Baldric Miner I received from a plot mission. The M3s I purchased myself.

I never send fighters to protect my trade ships.

They will have drones and jumpdrive etc.

That's a good idea. I suppose I'll start doing that instead!

When you are In Sector (IS) with the ships, the game has collision detection turned on. Due to the ai being a bit (Insert favourite term here) you can and will loose ships in any formation.

If your formation has some fast m5 or m4 ships, then these are prime candidates for being bugs on a windscreen. They tend to buzz about a lot and never stay in formation leading to the collisions and destruction you see.

As a work around you could try only using slower m3 class ships for patrols and escorts, generally keeping them all roughly at the same speed, but that normally makes the patrol far more expensive than the goods and freighter they are protecting.

In my early game starts I usually have a heavily shielded m3 with 3 other m3's running sector patrols. The heavy takes the lead role and the others are set to attack it's target. Once I have acquired an m6 or 2 they take the role of patrol leaders.

I only run patrol groups in sectors where I have factories or complexes, my complexes also have a stationary wing set to defend the complex hub.

Also an excellent idea. I'll probably start focusing on M6s more than M3s for patrols.

[Morkonan]

...The Baldric Miner I received from a plot mission. The M3s I purchased myself.

And, that may be what caused the problem and it's why I asked the question: There can sometimes be bugs with missions received from bailed pilots, ship recovery missions, etc.. In this singular sort of case, that ship may have fired on one of your other ships in OS due to that sort of bug. I don't know for sure that this bug exists, but given your evidence and the claim that it happened OS, that's the only culprit possible and a similar sort of bug has already been confirmed with such ships.

IOW - "Bought" ships are always bug free. Ships that may have had other allegiances before you became their owner can sometimes be buggy.

That's a good idea. I suppose I'll start doing that instead!

Traders will buy their own drones and trained CAG pilots will also buy theirs. Both will also buy their own jump drives. But, it's nice to give them a ship that's equipped with all of these things, if you can. They will keep an inventory of 10 drones, on their own, once they are high enough level to make use of them.

..Also an excellent idea. I'll probably start focusing on M6s more than M3s for patrols.

Certain M6s make excellent patrol ships. Some flights of M3 are also very good patrol ships. In general and against low ranking enemies in fighters, heavily armed fighter flights of five or more can make quick work of most trespassers. (Pirates, mostly.)

I run several sorts of formations of fighters, for funsies, and run, as a standard sector Patrol formation, anywhere from one Teladi Heavy Osprey accompanied by several fighters, to three Ospreys, sometimes accompanied by one to three wings of fighters. But, regardless, if I have any sector that needs a bit more security, I put a Teladi Heavy Osprey in there. I like these ships so much that I've dedicated an entire complex to furnishing everything my Heavy Osprey corps needs. No other M6 is going to have the survivability rate of that ship in OS combat, in my experience. It also packs a heck of an OS volley. It won't get the first shot, but it'll usually get the last one.

[estevesbk]

I run several sorts of formations of fighters, for funsies, and run, as a standard sector Patrol formation, anywhere from one Teladi Heavy Osprey accompanied by several fighters, to three Ospreys, sometimes accompanied by one to three wings of fighters. But, regardless, if I have any sector that needs a bit more security, I put a Teladi Heavy Osprey in there. I like these ships so much that I've dedicated an entire complex to furnishing everything my Heavy Osprey corps needs. No other M6 is going to have the survivability rate of that ship in OS combat, in my experience. It also packs a heck of an OS volley. It won't get the first shot, but it'll usually get the last one.

Is it better than the OTAS Skiron for OOS? Being both 5x200MJ, but seems the Heavy Osprey can equip a lot more of weapon types.

Can you describe how you do equip it please? ^_^

(Although against a Xenon Q some says anything less than a M2 will get beaten on the first hit?)

[Morkonan]

Is it better than the OTAS Skiron for OOS? Being both 5x200MJ, but seems the Heavy Osprey can equip a lot more of weapon types.

Can you describe how you do equip it please? ^_^

That depends on what sort of combat I expect it to be involved in - OS or IS. For OS combat, any ship in X3TC should be equipped with the heaviest weapons it can use. Shielding is often more critical than speed, since speed only determines who gets to fire first and you your ship won't get to fire if it's dead.

For the Heavy Osprey patrols I use, they have CIGs everywhere, but I'll usually put in a couple of Ions, just for variety and to help beat down shields. The H. Osprey packs more of a punch in OS combat than the Skiron.

But, IS, it's a different story. The Skiron's speed and manueverability comes into play and it has arguably better turret coverage than the Heavy Osprey. In an IS fight, I'd probably go with Skirons over Hvy. Ospreys, depending on the foe. Speed is life and good turret coverage helps with missile defense, which isn't a factor in OS combat since all missiles ignore a ships defenses and even Mosquito Missile Defense doesn't work OS.

In essence, turret coverage, maneuverability, and, to some extent, speed is not a factor in OS combat. (Unless you're trying to play with the speed=initiative game, which will always lose to Firepower and Shielding, any day, in OS combat.) A ship's physical profile, which determines how easily another ship can hit it with some weapons, doesn't matter at all in OS combat. But, in IS combat, it can matter a great deal.

For these reasons, I use the Heavy Osprey as my standard Sector Patrol ship. I am experimenting using Skirons for some Patrol roles, due to their speed. But, every sector in which I have bases or I have any sort of assets I want protected gets a compliment of Heavy Ospreys, regardless of anything else I am putting in there. It has proven itself to me in OS roles.

(Although against a Xenon Q some says anything less than a M2 will get beaten on the first hit?)

Even some M2s will succumb, in X3TC, after repeated engagements or if several Qs come calling... The Q is a fearsome OS attacker, make no mistake about it!

[estevesbk]

Thanks it makes much Sense!

So Q's are the devil's instruments of destruction and nothing can stop them?

Do you often lose patrols of 5-10 Heavy Ospreys to Q's?

As being M6, is it wiser then to just dock at the station and wait for you to be IS because it would take longer for them to take down a complex than a fleet of 10 H. Ospreys?