SPP production-test results in-and stunning

[Timsup2nothin]

So I just learned that an NPC SPP has about half the production capacity of a player owned SPP. (thanks Fun-X ) I find it somewhat astounding that I never recognized that.

Anyway, now I have a question and I don't have a mature game save handy to get an answer. Do player built NPC SPPs produce at the same rate as a player owned SPP, or a regular NPC SPP?

Fun-X used a stopwatch to time the production cycle, I bought out all the inventory and set a six minute timer. Either way we measured that an NPC M SPP production rate works out to about 8K/hr, where a player owned M SPP production rate is 16.7K/hr. It should be really easy to tell which one a player built NPC SPP has, but like I said I don't have a mission built SPP to look at right here handy.

Anyone?

[SIMON POPPLEWELL]

Not sure, but player owned SPPs require crystals where as npc SPPs don't. Unless you do some build station missions that require SPPs in which case they do require the crystals. So maybe the crystals increase the production cycle...

[Timsup2nothin]

Not sure, but player owned SPPs require crystals where as npc SPPs don't. Unless you do some build station missions that require SPPs in which case they do require the crystals. So maybe the crystals increase the production cycle...

I measured an NPC power plant that was dead out of crystals and one that had plenty in the secondary resource that supposedly makes production more efficient bin. They were exactly the same.

I'm assuming that since a mission built SPP would need crystals as a primary resource just like a player owned SPP that it will have the same production rate as a player owned SPP, but I'm hoping someone will test that. I would have to fly around and find a build an SPP mission to test it in my current game.

[Nanook]

...
I measured an NPC power plant that was dead out of crystals and one that had plenty in the secondary resource that supposedly makes production more efficient bin...

This supposed effect of secondary resources is nothing but a myth. The only affect secondary resources of any factory has on the game is to consume those resources, providing more profit opportunities, mostly for the player's benefit.

[Timsup2nothin]

...
I measured an NPC power plant that was dead out of crystals and one that had plenty in the secondary resource that supposedly makes production more efficient bin...

This supposed effect of secondary resources is nothing but a myth. The only affect secondary resources of any factory has on the game is to consume those resources, providing more profit opportunities, mostly for the player's benefit.

I was pretty sure about that. But I was so astounded to find such a difference in production rate that I went and found an SPP with crystals on the off chance.

[Nanook]

I'm sure the devs designed it that way so as to make the crystal-free NPC stations competitive with player-owned ones, while maintaining the ability to keep the economy from crashing and dying if the player doesn't help it out. Which it most likely would in very short order.

And as was pointed out in one of your other threads, the net productions of e-cells of both player and NPC SPP's are quite close when you take into account the e-cells required to produce the crystals to keep player SPP's in operation.

[Timsup2nothin]

If NPC SPPs actually required crystals the economy would grind to a complete halt, and it could actually be impossible to get it started. No crystals, can't start power plants, no e-cells, can't make crystals...okay, we're dead. Even if you built a self sufficient complex it would be impossible to get it going.

[SIMON POPPLEWELL]

In theory it is still possible to end up with next to zero Ecells. I remember one game I did a lot of those build station missions and built a lot of SPPs. The problem then was that they required crystals and at a later stage with lots of SPPs GoD removed a lot of the SPPs that didn't require the crystals, see where I'm going with this...I ended up with a lot of the economy collapsing. I tend to be a bit more thoughtful when taking those missions now.

[Ormac]

My Main Terran Defender Start (TC 3.2 Vanilla + BP) has a couple of Player built SPP for the local NPCs already.

So I could Test This if you still need too.

[Timsup2nothin]

My Main Terran Defender Start (TC 3.2 Vanilla + BP) has a couple of Player built SPP for the local NPCs already.

So I could Test This if you still need too.

That would be great. I was playing my game this afternoon thinking that if I saw a SPP build mission I would save real fast and build it, but I never saw one.

[glenmcd]

Player SPPs are unique in that their production rate is sensitive to where they are built. The key here is the "suns" percentage, which in AP ranges from 0% in LooManckStrat's Legacy to 450% in Homily of Perpetuity.
An "M" sized SPP:

SUNS: NPC rate/hr, Player rate/hr
------
000%: NPC = 7920, Player = 13,054
100%: NPC = 7920, Player = 16,659
150%: NPC = 7920, Player = 18,519
300%: NPC = 7920, Player = 23,985
400%: NPC = 7920, Player = 27,459
450%: NPC = 7920, Player = 29,276

I got the figures above by either measuring existing stations or creating new ones in various sectors. I'm surprised at the figures too, had no idea before I read this thread.

[Timsup2nothin]

Player SPPs are unique in that their production rate is sensitive to where they are built. The key here is the "suns" percentage, which in AP ranges from 0% in LooManckStrat's Legacy to 450% in Homily of Perpetuity.
An "M" sized SPP:

SUNS: NPC rate/hr, Player rate/hr
------
000%: NPC = 7920, Player = 13,054
100%: NPC = 7920, Player = 16,659
150%: NPC = 7920, Player = 18,519
300%: NPC = 7920, Player = 23,985
400%: NPC = 7920, Player = 27,459
450%: NPC = 7920, Player = 29,276

I got the figures above by either measuring existing stations or creating new ones in various sectors. I'm surprised at the figures too, had no idea before I read this thread.

Which calls up another question...were those NPC SPPs all original, or were any of them mission built...and would mission built stations produce the same as a player owned station, using sun percentage bonus?

[glenmcd]

Which calls up another question...were those NPC SPPs all original

All NPC SPPs were original. I did try creating Boron SPPs in the Script Editor, using a waretype that I got from an existing NPC SPP in Queens Harbour. But it still created an SPP that needed crystals so there must be some funny business going on in the X3 engine itself in regard to SPPs. That requirement for crystals can be removed in a script but then we're dealing with something that we can no longer confidently call an NPC SPP.

[Ormac]

I have Mission Built SPPs in:

Treasure Chest
Wastelands
Rolks Legacy
Scale Plate Green (along with oringinal)

and two or three in Shore of Infinity (along with original 2 or three)

I think GoD added a SPP requiring Crystal and shortly removed the starting XL at Heretics End but I can exclude that sector from the experiment

I can also build a player owned SPP in Wastelands if you would like a direct player -NPC Mission comparison sun comparison

I was considering focusing on each of the built sector SPP for 20-30 minutes or so, but I can comeback with the experiment particulars later.

I can see Shore of Infinitiy is going to be difficult to control

[Timsup2nothin]

I have Mission Built SPPs in:

Treasure Chest
Wastelands
Rolks Legacy
Scale Plate Green (along with oringinal)

and two or three in Shore of Infinity (along with original 2 or three)


I can see Shore of Infinitiy is going to be difficult to control

I think one example should prove the case, and it's a quick test. Just pick one mission built NPC SPP, make sure it has enough crystals to last six minutes, and buy out the entire inventory of cells. Wait six minutes and see how many it has in stock. Price will be high so no worries about any having been sold.

Multiply by ten and you have (roughly) hourly production. It will either be the same as other NPC SPPs, or the same as a player owned SPP in that sector. Every sector you mentioned has 150% sun so they're all the same in that regard.

[Ormac]

I've run the experiment Out of Sector at Wastelands and Out of Sector at Treasure Chest.

Ran for 6 minutes and recorded a second reading at 12 minutes plus my own reading at 20 minutes


Suns(%) SPP 6m 12m 20m Sector
150% XL 3960 7920 13200 Wastelands
150% L 1980 3960 6600 Treasure Chest

I got a projected E-cell output of
39.6K/h for the XL SPP and
19.8K/h for the L SPP

Do you need me to test any other configurations?

[Timsup2nothin]

I've run the experiment Out of Sector at Wastelands and Out of Sector at Treasure Chest.

Ran for 6 minutes and recorded a second reading at 12 minutes plus my own reading at 20 minutes


Suns(%) SPP 6m 12m 20m Sector
150% XL 3960 7920 13200 Wastelands
150% L 1980 3960 6600 Treasure Chest

I got a projected E-cell output of
39.6K/h for the XL SPP and
19.8K/h for the L SPP

Do you need me to test any other configurations?

Wow. So those mission built SPPs have production rates that are the same as other NPC SPPs, but they require crystals! It takes over 18,000 e-cells to produce the crystals required to run an L SPP, so the real effective output of that L plant is less than 2000 cells per hour, and the XL plant puts out less than 4000, so it can't power one additional L size fab in the universe.

All of a sudden player owned SPPs are making a lot more sense.

Thanks for the effort Ormac.

[Ormac]

Was not a problem.

Now I'm wondering how many extra factories the universe can normally support without the Player running their factories off their own SPPs.


So is it now

Welcome to the X-Universe

We Welcome careful drivers.
Say goodbye to your social life.
Enjoy your stay.
(Batteries not Included)

[Cycrow]

Which calls up another question...were those NPC SPPs all original

All NPC SPPs were original. I did try creating Boron SPPs in the Script Editor, using a waretype that I got from an existing NPC SPP in Queens Harbour. But it still created an SPP that needed crystals so there must be some funny business going on in the X3 engine itself in regard to SPPs. That requirement for crystals can be removed in a script but then we're dealing with something that we can no longer confidently call an NPC SPP.

creating stations in the script editor doesn't usually add the products, you do that by calling the add default products commands.
This will add products/resoruces based on the players stations.

The NPC's stations are controlled via the maps file which determines what products and resources to use, and doesn't use the defaults.

IIRC removing cystals from a SPP and restarting its task should start producing at the lower rate simlar to NPC stations

[Timsup2nothin]

The question isn't about GD generated SPPs...they produce at the NPC rate (8000/hr for M size) and don't use crystals. The question isn't about player owned SPPs, they use crystals and produce at the much higher and well documented rates. I hadn't even considered script added SPPs.

What I'm trying to get a definite answer on is mission built SPPs. They use crystals, like a player owned SPP, so do they produce at the rate a player owned SPP would? Or since they are NPC owned do they produce at the much lower NPC SPP rate?