Trading influence on race and economic ranks

Old Drullo321 · Post by **Old Drullo321** » Thu, 4. Jul 13, 21:46

Simple question, does every trading increase the race and economic rank, regardless how it was performed (manually [player controlled] or automatically (Mk3, Commercial Agent, etc.)]

If it increases, is the amount the same, regardless which method is used?

Examples:
1. Manual trade with your own playership at npc stations
2. Mk3 trader
3. Commerical agent?
4. NPC traders buying at your own stations?
5. Automatically selling wares with station assigned ships (non bonus package method)

Green color indicates it will increase race and ecnomic ranks.

Yellow color indicates that I don't know and a qualified answer would be helpful

Hemmingfish · Post by **Hemmingfish** » Thu, 4. Jul 13, 22:06

Doesn't matter the method. If materials change hands, you will gain rank and reputation.

Post by **Geek** » Thu, 4. Jul 13, 22:24

You will only gain rank though if you sell above average price, or buy below average price. IE selling spacefuel at -1 does not increase the trade rank.

Old Drullo321 · Post by **Old Drullo321** » Thu, 4. Jul 13, 23:06

That is an interesting fact. Does selling below average price (e.g. spacefuel at -1) increase race rank?

Post by **Geek** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 01:05

Indeed. There is a random chance for every trade (even a losing one) that it does. That is the difference.

nap_rz · Post by **nap_rz** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 05:02

Geek wrote:You will only gain rank though if you sell above average price, or buy below average price. IE selling spacefuel at -1 does not increase the trade rank.

1st time I ever read it, where did you get that info?

Lord Dakier · Post by **Lord Dakier** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 05:46

Hemmingfish wrote:Doesn't matter the method. If materials change hands, you will gain rank and reputation.

Pretty sure that's not true. Surely I'd of noticed something like that as I quite often brought things when not economically clever.

SIMON POPPLEWELL · Post by **SIMON POPPLEWELL** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 11:26

nap_rz wrote:
Geek wrote:You will only gain rank though if you sell above average price, or buy below average price. IE selling spacefuel at -1 does not increase the trade rank.
1st time I ever read it, where did you get that info?

That information is incorrect, you gain trade rank from all sales, the price only effects how much of an increase you get for each sale.

GCU Grey Area · Post by **GCU Grey Area** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 12:14

Having nothing better to do decided to conduct a little test.
Started a new game (AP 3.0 Humble Merchant) so any increase in trade and/or rep ranks would have maximum effect.
Starting ranks: Opportunist 0%, Argon Citizen 50%.

Looked for the worst possible thing to buy in Herron's Nebula - bought 52 ore at 187cr (average +59).
Results: No change to trade rank, Argon rep increased to Federation Member 0%

Flew south to Argon Prime & looked for somewhere to sell it at a loss - sold 52 ore at 115cr (average -13)
Results: No change to either trade rank or Argon rep.

Restarted same scenario. Looked instead for a profitable trade - bought 29 silicon wafers at 307cr (average -197)
Results: Trade rank increased to Profiteer 40%, Argon rep increased to Federation Member 0%

Flew south to Argon Prime & looked for somewhere to sell it at a profit - sold 29 silicon wafers at 756cr (average +252)
Results: Trade rank increased to Hawker 60%, Argon rep increased to Federation Member 57%

Conclusions:
(1) Trade rank only increased when buying below average & selling above average prices - non-profitable trading had no effect on trade rank.
(2) Argon rep usually improved when trading, irrespective of the profitability of the trade run.

SIMON POPPLEWELL · Post by **SIMON POPPLEWELL** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 12:32

GCU Grey Area wrote:Having nothing better to do decided to conduct a little test.
Started a new game (AP 3.0 Humble Merchant) so any increase in trade and/or rep ranks would have maximum effect.
Starting ranks: Opportunist 0%, Argon Citizen 50%.

Looked for the worst possible thing to buy in Herron's Nebula - bought 52 ore at 187cr (average +59).
Results: No change to trade rank, Argon rep increased to Federation Member 0%

Flew south to Argon Prime & looked for somewhere to sell it at a loss - sold 52 ore at 115cr (average -13)
Results: No change to either trade rank or Argon rep.

Restarted same scenario. Looked instead for a profitable trade - bought 29 silicon wafers at 307cr (average -197)
Results: Trade rank increased to Profiteer 40%, Argon rep increased to Federation Member 0%

Flew south to Argon Prime & looked for somewhere to sell it at a profit - sold 29 silicon wafers at 756cr (average +252)
Results: Trade rank increased to Hawker 60%, Argon rep increased to Federation Member 57%

Conclusions:
(1) Trade rank only increased when buying below average & selling above average prices - non-profitable trading had no effect on trade rank.
(2) Argon rep usually improved when trading, irrespective of the profitability of the trade run.

It seems to be hit and miss, some commodities improve trade/rep for one race but nothing for another. Probably should have done this test in Teladi space, they tend to improve rep more than most other races. I've speaking from the experience of a pirate game, selling only to Teladi seemed to improve trade/rank with selling just about anything I looted from npc traders.

GCU Grey Area · Post by **GCU Grey Area** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 13:27

SIMON POPPLEWELL wrote:It seems to be hit and miss, some commodities improve trade/rep for one race but nothing for another. Probably should have done this test in Teladi space, they tend to improve rep more than most other races. I've speaking from the experience of a pirate game, selling only to Teladi seemed to improve trade/rank with selling just about anything I looted from npc traders.

As requested, repeated the same test sequence in Seizewell (Teladi Trafficker start).
Essentially the same results as the Argon test.
In case the actual numbers are of interest to anyone:

Starting ranks: Opportunist 0%, Profit Initiate 85%

1st trade run (loss):
Bought 70 ore at 179cr (average +51)
Results: no change to either trade rank or Teladi rep.
Sold 70 ore at 102cr (average -26)
Results: no change to trade rank, Teladi rep increased to Profit Opportunity 43%.

2nd trade run (profit):
Bought 162 ore at 78cr (average -50)
Results: Trade rank increased to Hawker 0%, Teladi rep increased to Profit Opportunity 43%.
Sold 162 ore at 193cr (average +65)
Results: Trade rank increased to Petty Vendor 30%, Teladi rep increased to Profit Opportunity 82%.

Post by **Geek** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 13:42

nap_rz wrote: 1st time I ever read it, where did you get that info?

This is not the first time this question is raised.
For example : http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... sc&start=0

SIMON POPPLEWELL wrote:That information is incorrect, you gain trade rank from all sales, the price only effects how much of an increase you get for each sale.

Read the test results above or (better) test it yourself.

BurningMan · Post by **BurningMan** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 13:45

GCU is correct every trade with a race increases the rep with them even Freight Extension and other Equipments. It doesn't even matter how much of a ware you sell or for what price selling 1000 Ore for max price gets you the same rep increase as selling one E-Cell at minimum price. However after reaching rank 3 the reputation increase barely matters anymore and if you would try to increase your rep just by trading with a race it would propably take ages or lots of remote traders.

I am not 100% sure on how exactly trading ranks work, however you only get trading rep by selling above average and buying below. I am also sure that it is affected by how much profit you make so more profitable trades get you more Trade Rank increase. So for example selling Micro Chips, 1MJ Shields etc. for -1 avg won't gain you any trade rank, CAGs and UT/STs however will get you a trade rank increase.

Old Drullo321 · Post by **Old Drullo321** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 14:36

Thanks for some answers and testing.

The last question would be, does this mechanism works the same way when neutral NPCs buy at your station (for race ranks).

Would test it, I have an X3 AP drug complex constantly bought empty buy pirate local traders (shrouded as normal friendly AI ships) but I don't know the script commands for reading race rep

A quote from Geek in the other thread:

If you want to test, start a new game (easy). Just buy a cheap station. Buy only at average or above, sell only at average or less (you need to exclude npc traders)

Does that mean there won't be any change for race and economic rank when dealing with NPC traders?

Post by **Geek** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 15:31

I said that to keep the test simple. NPC traders works the same way than your own.

You can slowly get race rep this way. Trade rank is more difficult as NPC will generally buy below average/sell above average only (they are trying to make a profit). Some people claim to sell rare goods (ie chips) at maximum price to NPC traders, but I never been successful in doing it myself.

BurningMan · Post by **BurningMan** » Fri, 5. Jul 13, 16:12

Geek is right if a NPC trader buys or sells at your station you also get the same trade/race rank increase as if you or one of your trades sold or bought it at a NPC station. This can be used to slowly increase your reputation with a rae (eg selling drugs to pirates/yaki), however since NPC traders rarely buy above or sell below average increasing your trade rank with this way is pretty hard. It can work with Micro Chips and other similar rare products, but it would help to take out the competition in that Area

IMO UT/LT and CAGs are the best way to increase your trade rank.

ajax34i · Post by **ajax34i** » Sat, 6. Jul 13, 05:15

Actually, for ranks 0-3 the best way is a programmable keyboard with:

left arrow, enter, right arrow, enter
or
end, enter, home, enter

programmed with 25 ms delay in between each, and the key set to repeat until toggled off. Takes about 5-10 minutes; find an equipment dock and set it on the most expensive thing you can buy/resell.

Also, the Teladi

Spoiler

Show

do not limit access to ship extensions based on your rep with them

apparently they are truly interested in all customers.

Deathtoll666 · Post by **Deathtoll666** » Sat, 6. Jul 13, 05:44

could moving items from one races trading dock to another races trading dock have any effect on notoriety? i'm doubting it since it will always be bought and sold at average price.