what ship after M6+
Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum
what ship after M6+
Hi there
I'm just looking for my next ship after M6+ but they seems to be awful weak compared to the heavy centaur.
M7-s doesnt have either weapon recharge or firepower (I dont play ammo based weapons for that i have CS:S )
while my heavy centaur can fire 12 HEPT without depleting 1% of laser energy, an M7 cant fire with 6 or it takes its laser energy in moments (and i didnt even think about bigger guns) or the ones have some more laser recharge cant have any better gun so why to buy an m7 if my m6 can do the same just with better agility?
TL-s are total useless as they have no dock for TS only m3-m5. any tiny
TS is better for any support reason and CANT RUN A SINGLE GUN maybe other than IRE without getting dry...
what did i miss and what is it worth to get next?
I remember back in reunion i've cleared up emperors mine with an albatros, now even capitalships cant do that??? or maybe titan could...
I'm just looking for my next ship after M6+ but they seems to be awful weak compared to the heavy centaur.
M7-s doesnt have either weapon recharge or firepower (I dont play ammo based weapons for that i have CS:S )
while my heavy centaur can fire 12 HEPT without depleting 1% of laser energy, an M7 cant fire with 6 or it takes its laser energy in moments (and i didnt even think about bigger guns) or the ones have some more laser recharge cant have any better gun so why to buy an m7 if my m6 can do the same just with better agility?
TL-s are total useless as they have no dock for TS only m3-m5. any tiny
TS is better for any support reason and CANT RUN A SINGLE GUN maybe other than IRE without getting dry...
what did i miss and what is it worth to get next?
I remember back in reunion i've cleared up emperors mine with an albatros, now even capitalships cant do that??? or maybe titan could...
well, i dont play missions, i run my little empire and i thought its time to get some decent firepower to attack some pirate bases but nothing can run even 2 or 3 decent guns long enough to shoot a station down... its a joke if i will need a fleet of titans to take down a station while 2 elite can do the same
-
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Wed, 8. Aug 12, 15:56
I think you missed something an the heavy Centaur has a laser Capacity of 14.500 and a recharge rate of 435.. M7s have around 50-60000 Laser capacity and a recharge rate around 1500. M7s also have way better shields and most can dock some Fighters they also have more turrets and can mount a lot better weapons like Flak and IBL. One of the best M7s are the Split Tiger/Panther, the Tealdi Shrike and the Paranid Deimos.
maybe you looked at M7Ms wich are Missile Frigates that as the name suggests only use Missiles so they obviously have a bad Laser Generator, however they are the most dealiest Thing out there if you can support them with Missiles.
maybe you looked at M7Ms wich are Missile Frigates that as the name suggests only use Missiles so they obviously have a bad Laser Generator, however they are the most dealiest Thing out there if you can support them with Missiles.
-
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Wed, 26. Jun 13, 10:01
M7s are mostly anti-fighter ships so they are not suited for taking enemy capitals or stations unless you can get incendiary bomb launchers for them.
You are forgetting that they also have higher shields (3-6GJ), more turrets and ability to use flak guns or even capital ship weapons like the Incendiary Bomb Launcher. The Boron Thresher can even use Photon Pulse cannons in main gun slots. Some of them also have the ability to dock 5 or more fighters. They are not even much slower than Heavy centaur. I think most of them are about same speed or even faster.
If you want firepower buy the Deimos. It can equip Phased Shockwave Generators which is really devastating weapon. It also has speed of 107m/s, 6GJ shields and it can dock 6 fighters.
TLs and TSs are not combat ships so of course they are not going to very well in combat.
You are forgetting that they also have higher shields (3-6GJ), more turrets and ability to use flak guns or even capital ship weapons like the Incendiary Bomb Launcher. The Boron Thresher can even use Photon Pulse cannons in main gun slots. Some of them also have the ability to dock 5 or more fighters. They are not even much slower than Heavy centaur. I think most of them are about same speed or even faster.
If you want firepower buy the Deimos. It can equip Phased Shockwave Generators which is really devastating weapon. It also has speed of 107m/s, 6GJ shields and it can dock 6 fighters.
TLs and TSs are not combat ships so of course they are not going to very well in combat.
Last edited by Timesitheus on Thu, 18. Jul 13, 14:20, edited 1 time in total.
erm, I see the problem now. in AP heavy centaur has 1750 MW recharge while a shrike has 979 only. also that 979 means if i put 2 FAA on it (only 2, not more) it can shoot for 39sec then it need 49sec to reload its cap or it will just shoot stupid once in every 2 seconds with only 1 turret... and it has 18 weapon slots... what guns can i mount on it to keep fireing with all its turrets?
if i could just put PAC in every slot it would still deplete the laser energy...
if i could just put PAC in every slot it would still deplete the laser energy...
Also, in X3TC, with the M7 ships that can install IBL guns (from the pirates / Yaki), you don't need a lot of laser recharge because those guns are powerful enough to take out other capital ships in about one pass, if you fly them and overcharge the weapons.
So basically the M7's that can install IBL weapons (Shrike, Tiger, Agamemnon, etc.) are usually regarded as very good. A Tiger with IBLs piloted by you is pretty amazing; the Shrike is slower but versatile, with a cargo bay big enough to carry everything and the kitchen sink and hangars for a small wing of fighters. Agamemnon is very good for remote fights where you're not in the sector, with its big shields and first strike IBL capabilities able to take out big enemy ships very fast.
In X3AP, ships have a lot more HP so the combat equation is different, but, the Shrike can install Gauss Cannons on its sides and you should definitely put them in because they are an ammo-based big gun that does more damage than the IBL and doesn't use energy (uses ammo - you have a big cargo for it).
I typically open with IBL shots from the front guns until the laser energy is depleted, then make sure the enemy ship passes to my right or left to be in range of the Gauss Cannons (which can fire forward too by the way), and if there are any fighters for my FAA turrets to shoot at, they will keep my lasers depleted but FAA takes care of them, and the Shrike has the shields to take them on.
If not, launch fighters, order them to attack enemy fighters. Wing of 8 M3's can be pretty amazing.
So basically the M7's that can install IBL weapons (Shrike, Tiger, Agamemnon, etc.) are usually regarded as very good. A Tiger with IBLs piloted by you is pretty amazing; the Shrike is slower but versatile, with a cargo bay big enough to carry everything and the kitchen sink and hangars for a small wing of fighters. Agamemnon is very good for remote fights where you're not in the sector, with its big shields and first strike IBL capabilities able to take out big enemy ships very fast.
In X3AP, ships have a lot more HP so the combat equation is different, but, the Shrike can install Gauss Cannons on its sides and you should definitely put them in because they are an ammo-based big gun that does more damage than the IBL and doesn't use energy (uses ammo - you have a big cargo for it).
I typically open with IBL shots from the front guns until the laser energy is depleted, then make sure the enemy ship passes to my right or left to be in range of the Gauss Cannons (which can fire forward too by the way), and if there are any fighters for my FAA turrets to shoot at, they will keep my lasers depleted but FAA takes care of them, and the Shrike has the shields to take them on.
If not, launch fighters, order them to attack enemy fighters. Wing of 8 M3's can be pretty amazing.
Last edited by ajax34i on Thu, 18. Jul 13, 14:18, edited 1 time in total.
Pfft. If I had to guess, "your M7" is either a Cerberus or an Astreus, neither of which equips real M7 weapons.
Look for any of the Teladi Shrike, Split Tiger, Split Panther, Paranid Deimos, or Paranid Agamemnon. The Argon entry into the M7 class is astonishingly weak compared to any of the Profit Guild entries, it's probably why they had OTAS invent the M7M class and went to work themselves on the M7C.
I mean, I'm all for OTAS with most of their ship models, but even they can't improve on the Argon idea of what an M7 is supposed to be all that much.
I mean heck, even the Thresher is better than the Argon offerings and it's as overthought and undertested as any other Boron design.
Look for any of the Teladi Shrike, Split Tiger, Split Panther, Paranid Deimos, or Paranid Agamemnon. The Argon entry into the M7 class is astonishingly weak compared to any of the Profit Guild entries, it's probably why they had OTAS invent the M7M class and went to work themselves on the M7C.
I mean, I'm all for OTAS with most of their ship models, but even they can't improve on the Argon idea of what an M7 is supposed to be all that much.
I mean heck, even the Thresher is better than the Argon offerings and it's as overthought and undertested as any other Boron design.
Last edited by Imgran on Thu, 18. Jul 13, 14:20, edited 1 time in total.
OTAS -- it's like 42, the answer to life, the universe, and everything
It's not my ground any more (AP, not TC), but the answer is: ammo based.vargata wrote:... what guns can i mount on it to keep fireing with all its turrets?
Set up a TM or M6 for support ship role (a CLS pilot can do this for ships as I recall from TC) and you will hardly notice any difference (except the devastating firepower).
well, im hunting pirates all around so i will hardly have any ibl soon... just checked the deimos... it can shoot for an awful 18 sec with its 8 front turret before gets empty. it seems game has some op weapons and the rest is just useless or i will have to switch for ammo based weapons and bring a fleet of haulers with every bigger ship :/
-
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Mon, 7. Sep 09, 15:26
great but i hate op things... why to have bigger and bigger ships if they are pointless? with heavy centaur AP is dead. until titan no point to buy anything as HC is op compared to near anything...oceanmist667 wrote:if you'll play AP I would recommend a free M6 the only one in the universe..it s perfect to kill anything...the trouble is to find it )
You're underestimating the Deimos severely. The PSG is the capital ship version of the PBG. It really doesn't need to fire for that long to get the job done against any ship in the game, and with the kind of shielding it can mount, and the way PSG fire eats through shields, it can take a lot less than 18 seconds to decide the battle even against, say, a Xenon K. It's designed to get in real close, shred the shields of the enemy ship and then ram for massive hull damage. And its fighterbays make it useful against more minor threats that its big slow self might otherwise be ill suited for.vargata wrote:well, im hunting pirates all around so i will hardly have any ibl soon... just checked the deimos... it can shoot for an awful 18 sec with its 8 front turret before gets empty. it seems game has some op weapons and the rest is just useless or i will have to switch for ammo based weapons and bring a fleet of haulers with every bigger ship :/
And if you're hunting Pirates you can still access IBL's -- if you're not going out of your way to cheese off the Yaki as well. Pass all the way through their sectors and you'll find one with 2 IBL forges. Set up an economy to supply them and they'll come through eventually.
The advantage of the Deimos is that it can keep firing its weapons at about half power even with the batteries dry, it has a very good recharge rate. And if you don't have access to the IBL, that limits your options effectively to the Deimos or the Shrike, of the purchaseable M7's as theyre the only ships with reliable frontline capital weapons that are not IBL's.
Shrike's not a bad choice at all. It's a bit slow, but it's well defended, and if you're concerned about being able to keep firing, that's your ship -- its ammo based Gauss Cannons can be manufactured by the player, and so can the ammo, and it'll fire forever as long as your hold holds up.
Last edited by Imgran on Thu, 18. Jul 13, 14:27, edited 1 time in total.
OTAS -- it's like 42, the answer to life, the universe, and everything
Ok, first of all, please confirm are you talking X3TC or X3AP?
Second of all, where are you getting your stats for the ships? The game categorizes EVERYTHING as an M7, but if you look at a fan site like Roguey's, you'll see that there are M7's, M7M, M7C categories, and not all the ships are designed to hunt big capital ships.
Third, these ships are NOT dogfighters. You can't expect to hold down the trigger and just spray bullets for hours while being on target because your ship can spin like a ballerina. You're, at best, going to get some shots on target as you head in, then you're passing the target and getting some broadsides in, then it's minutes of trying to turn around and re-approach for another pass.
0.9 RPM turn speed, what does that mean? Means it takes 30 seconds to almost turn around. You can grab coffee and go to the bathroom in that time. Your guns will recharge.
Second of all, where are you getting your stats for the ships? The game categorizes EVERYTHING as an M7, but if you look at a fan site like Roguey's, you'll see that there are M7's, M7M, M7C categories, and not all the ships are designed to hunt big capital ships.
Third, these ships are NOT dogfighters. You can't expect to hold down the trigger and just spray bullets for hours while being on target because your ship can spin like a ballerina. You're, at best, going to get some shots on target as you head in, then you're passing the target and getting some broadsides in, then it's minutes of trying to turn around and re-approach for another pass.
0.9 RPM turn speed, what does that mean? Means it takes 30 seconds to almost turn around. You can grab coffee and go to the bathroom in that time. Your guns will recharge.
... well it depends on the M7 to an extent, different ships have different tactics. Like I said, a Shrike CAN sit back and pick an opponent apart with extended sustained fire -- and the Deimos is designed to make the idea of repeated close passes against an individual M2 a laughable concept, at least in TC. Shred the shields and ram. Ends a lot of fights very quickly.
OTAS -- it's like 42, the answer to life, the universe, and everything
-
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Wed, 26. Jun 13, 10:01
You are looking too much at the numbers I think... Without trying yourself. If there are still ships alive after 18 seconds of Phased Shockwave generators then you are doing something wrong. (Not to mention your game would have probably crashed at that point because of the lag ) For the FAA you are assuming that your turret fires nonstop for 39 seconds which doesn't seem to be very realistic scenario. There would have to be fighters all around you. Usually the fighter your flak turret is firing will die very quickly.vargata wrote:well, im hunting pirates all around so i will hardly have any ibl soon... just checked the deimos... it can shoot for an awful 18 sec with its 8 front turret before gets empty. it seems game has some op weapons and the rest is just useless or i will have to switch for ammo based weapons and bring a fleet of haulers with every bigger ship :/
Agreed. The Deimos looks underwhelming on paper because it looks as light on the big guns as the Argon offerings, but learning how to use PSG's effectively (in other words, how to get close enough to a big capital to use them effectively without getting blasted to smithereens) makes all the difference.
That said, I'm probably going to the Boreas for my M2 offering. I do not trust PSG's on turrets. But as an M7 weapon it's hard to match the PSG for sheer damage output.
That said, I'm probably going to the Boreas for my M2 offering. I do not trust PSG's on turrets. But as an M7 weapon it's hard to match the PSG for sheer damage output.
OTAS -- it's like 42, the answer to life, the universe, and everything
If it weren't for the annoying friendly fire issues with the PSGs, the Diemos might be one of the most overpowered ships in the game. Essentially, the PSG does the same basic job as a PBG, only on a capital ship scale and with an even wider field of fire. 18 seconds with 8 PSGs should melt the shields off of any ship in the game, and do massive hull damage on top of that. What's left won't survive ramming by the Diemos. I've simply "flown through" Qs while firing, demolishing them in a matter of a few seconds. It was eventually the downfall of my last game when I ended up with every race but one out gunning for me mainly because of "friendly fire" accidents.
The Boron Thresher does have seriously underpowered weapon generators. You fire the guns once or twice, then jump to the opposite side of the sector; by the time you get back to the target (if there's anything left of it after the first volley), you'll have enough energy for one more shot to complete the job. Against multiple targets.....not so good.
The Cerberus is under-everything'ed, except for anti-fighter weapons. It's purely an escort ship for M1/M2 capitals, but is very good at that role. I wouldn't want to take one up against most other capitals one-on-one.
Numbers alone don't tell the full tale; you've got to fly the ships for a while to find out what they're good for, and what they're weak at, before you can really judge them.
The Boron Thresher does have seriously underpowered weapon generators. You fire the guns once or twice, then jump to the opposite side of the sector; by the time you get back to the target (if there's anything left of it after the first volley), you'll have enough energy for one more shot to complete the job. Against multiple targets.....not so good.
The Cerberus is under-everything'ed, except for anti-fighter weapons. It's purely an escort ship for M1/M2 capitals, but is very good at that role. I wouldn't want to take one up against most other capitals one-on-one.
Numbers alone don't tell the full tale; you've got to fly the ships for a while to find out what they're good for, and what they're weak at, before you can really judge them.