Using a TM for OOS defense force?

[brownthomasw]

I hear TM's do a decent job of sector defense for much less price than an m6. Does it have to be the zephyrus with the hept on the front or will a variety of TM's work just as well?

I'll have to give them some m4's even if only for role playing purposes. I usually use single m6's by themselves but have lost them to groups of fighters. Would it matter if I have my fighters escorting the TM or keep them in the docking bay and set to be owned by the mini carrier?

[ajax34i]

There are no TM's in X-BTF.

Which game are you talking about?

[Imgran]

It's polite to mention whether you're playing TC or AP but I'm not sure it matters in this case, since the answer is roughly the same: anything that can kill an M6 will kill a TM and they're good in OOS combat for a transport, meaning they're cheap, can deploy in numbers inexpensively, and can deploy fighters in even greater numbers, somewhat less inexpensively.

If there was a script that forced any ship that had fighter drones and was under attack to launch them in OOS combat they'd be much more useful.

[brownthomasw]

obviously not btf then, its tc. i don't expect them to do better than an m6 and haven't lost an m6 this game. i figure they're cheaper to fill needed oos defense roles and less costly if they die. I tried one as a transport itself but he can't bring in enough ecells, maybe if i could get another chokaro.

I'm sure the zephyrus is plain better but any with decent shielding will make a nice center piece for a defense force. though some blastclaws and some m3's have 200mj shields.

[ajax34i]

X3TC OOS combat is very much a turn-based math thing, with each ship assumed to hit with all its weapons, one salvo per turn.

As a result, the best OOS defense ships have big shields and biggest guns in all the possible slots, even if a fitting like that wouldn't make sense based on weapon energy levels, weapon generators, AoE considerations, and need for defense against fighters. The best patrol ships have, in addition to the above, enough speed to catch the invaders if they come in at a different gate.

Depending on the TM used, some could be taken out by a single M3, especially since the 4 PACs they can fit don't make the same dent into an M3's shields as the 9 HEPTs the M3 could fit.

You haven't lost any M6's yet probably because you've been lucky. People have lost factories and M2's to Xenon M7 Q, due to that ship typically carrying a full load of IBLs and shooting first in the turn-based math.

[Imgran]

Basically in any situation in which you might guard a sector with M6, you probably don't even need to guard it at all.

Me attempting to secure hatikvah's Faith with M6 usually resulted in nothing except me losing M6 whenever the Pirate Brigantine showed up. Since if I left the brig alone it was generally content to leave me alone, it wasn't worth the investment in a "proper" garrison. I rebuilt my system into a closed loop and reassigned my corvettes.

[BurningMan]

Basically in any situation in which you might guard a sector with M6, you probably don't even need to guard it at all.

Seconding this, everything below mulitple M2s will evntually get blow up if big ships show up and you usually have more than enough time to just jump in and protect it yourself or send in an interception fleet to prevent stations from getting destroyed sometimes a freighter gets blown up, but just replacing it is usually a lot cheaper than replacing the ships that get blown up protecting it.

[brownthomasw]

thanks for the info, i was considering giving any tm's thier respective special weapons to try to beef them up and use those few concussion grenade luanchers or whatever that you find in some of the free ships that are no good in sector but may be a little more powerful math wise.

I'm still not sure how the level progression and spawning of random pirates goes. I think my factories have been safe becuase i'm relatively early in this playthrough. I've got a tiger but no m7m and only recently saw roaming q's and only near xenon space.

I'm more worried about small groups of m4, possibly m3 usually pirates harassing my local supply ships, harassing my complexes, annoying me in other ways and to make some of my local space a bit safer for my lone ut and fleet of rastar and bofu galactic traders.

In past playthroughs i've had pirate m6 wandering deep into common wealth territory. I think they can come from pirate bases and seem more common later in the game but idk, and maybe eventually more wandering brigantines and q's find thier way to odd places. they probably can appear in or make thier way to secure-ish space even early on but i'm still feeling like random wanderers level up. so later i will have more big ships to worry about? I have seen khaak destroyers leveling whole sectors early on in my 1st game. I had to avoid them forever. I havn't seen them at all this time but my explorer bot only found 2 stations in the sector next to pranid prime. I'm sure the tm's will eventually be useless and the m6 will only have a 50/50 chance when they likely soon come into even a pirate hydra.

I heard tm's do it better for less. My chokaro got blown up by an m8 helping me defend a station when i was still in a fighter and had set his rear turret to attack cause i got self assured but the zephyrus has been keeping the area around antigone memorial safe all by himself though he could meet some unpleseantries in the hole eventually i guess.

Could keep one docked at a complex to avoid hydras and use him for fighters who decide to attack my station. but i do like feeling like i am in control of and patroling some amount of territory.

[Timsup2nothin]

I have seen khaak destroyers leveling whole sectors early on in my 1st game. I had to avoid them forever. I havn't seen them at all this time but my explorer bot only found 2 stations in the sector next to pranid prime.

Even though you haven't seen them, they are somewhere. The 'Kha'ak invasion target sector' is randomly selected and when the invaders are destroyed there will be another, though I don't know how long it delays. Early in the game killing said invasion is a job for the race defense forces, and later on when I have the wherewithal to do it I usually still won't. If they are in some sector I don't have much use for I'd rather just let them have it than take a chance on where they will respawn.

[ajax34i]

Your cheapest option (in terms of the cost of destroyed combat ships) is to create for yourself a Rapid Response task force:

- A fast, well shielded M6, like the Skiron, with CIGs and HEPTs.

- One of the better shielded M7's with the maximum amount of IBLs, like the Agamemnon (huge blind spots in-sector, very nice OOS), or if not the Tiger or the Shrike.

- Later, one of the better shielded M2's (Tyr, if not, Boreas) with big guns in all the slots.

You wait for the threat to materialize, either pirates attacking or Xenon or Kha'ak invasion or whatever, and then you send the smallest ship that can deal with the threat to take care of it.

The advantages are:

- you usually get notified when something is attacked by a beep, log message, and flashing red ships/icons, so you do have time to respond.

- you don't need to buy many ships, and you don't lose many ships to attackers that are too powerful.

- if your ship has orders to attack a specific enemy, it will often get to shoot first, in the math-based combat encounter. M7 ships and up, whoever shoots first wins, because 12 IBL (for an M7) or 24+ PPC can one-shot pretty much any size target in X3TC.

- if it's something that's dangerous OOS, like the Q or an M2, you also can get in-sector and pilot the ship, using the strafe, missiles, etc etc. to win the fight.

[AgamemnonArgon]

A Rapid Deployment Force should always consist of the best of ones Fleet, but must be extra to any exisiting Fleet commitments.

Its no use pulling ships from the front line or off Patrol to send those somewhere else to firefight, and cause more issues by not being where they should be.

I like to maintain eight or more M7s in my own RDF.

Usually Shrikes, carrying fighters, Class M3. Send them where they may be needed, try to always have starships in reserve to jump in to the rescue.
Once the mission is completed refuel and rearm the ships and ensure they can be ready again as soon as possible.

This is usually an expensive force to maintain and sometimes losses occur.

[firestorm79]

Basically in any situation in which you might guard a sector with M6, you probably don't even need to guard it at all.

Seconding this, everything below mulitple M2s will evntually get blow up if big ships show up and you usually have more than enough time to just jump in and protect it yourself or send in an interception fleet to prevent stations from getting destroyed sometimes a freighter gets blown up, but just replacing it is usually a lot cheaper than replacing the ships that get blown up protecting it.

best advice I have seen regarding OOS patrolling... next time I load up x3, the firs thing I'm going to do is stick all my OOS fighters into solar panel stations, then whenever I need them they can just jump to wherever.

In fact is there ANY advantage of having OOS ships flying about??!?

[Honved]

From what I understand of OOS combat, each weapon fires a set number of shots, and each shot has a fixed chance to hit or miss, regardless of target speeds, turret angles, etc. Faster ships get to shoot first.

That means, a fast ship like a Q gets to unleash its full arsenal (including rear-facing turrets) at its target, and resolve damage before any return fire is even launched. If it gets enough lucky "hit" rolls, it can vaporize even a heavily shielded M2, and take no damage in return. There are only a couple of ships in the game that have sufficient shielding to handle the maximum possible volley a fully-loaded Q can deliver. In other cases, the invisible "dice" are kinder, and the target may survive to return fire with whatever it has left.

The system rewards weapons with a high "per shot" damage, compared to those with a high rate of fire but lower damage per shot. Power usage is not even considered, so a full complement of slow-firing energy-hungry guns like the HEPT in every possible gun slot are excellent for OOS combat, despite being nearly useless after the first volley in IS combat.

[Triaxx2]

Also the damage is modified by the length of the 'round'. If you're OOS and not watching, it's 30 seconds. If you're OOS but watching via the map it's 5 seconds. There is rate of fire taken into account, but it's an even more complex calculation.