MK 3 Trader Problem [X3 Ap]

BurningMan · Post by **BurningMan** » Tue, 30. Jul 13, 19:36

Okay so in my recently started Pirate game i bailed a few TS from the Paranid and wanted to use them as LTs in Teladi, Argon and Split Space since i am at war with the Terrans, Paranid and Borons. So far everything went well i leveled them up to 6 and started them as local Traders in Argon Prime, Profit Share and Rhonkars Fire with a jump range of 1 and expected that there would be plenty of trade opportunities.
However after i left them on 10xseta for about an hour the ones in Rhonkars Fire and Argon Prime are still on standby in space doing nothing. They are equiped with Nav Software MK1, trade software 1,2 and 3, Fight Software 1 and 2 as well as a Jump Drive.
Am i just unlucky that they weren't able to find anything to sell for under average buy/above average sell or is it maybe a problem that there are Boron and Paranid Ships traveling through the sector ( i am at lowest rank with both of them)?

Thanks in advance.

ajax34i · Post by **ajax34i** » Tue, 30. Jul 13, 19:46

"Standby" = typically no profitable trades to be found

"Idle" = some sort of issue such as enemies present or missing prerequisite or other problem

BurningMan · Post by **BurningMan** » Tue, 30. Jul 13, 20:16

So i just looked and in Argon Prime they sell Silkworms at a Silkworm Fab for under average and buy them at the EQ dock for average shouldn't my LT take this trade?
When i start the trader it only says buy Quantum Tubes shortly and then goes straight to standby is it maybe an issue that i capped these ships and they maybe only trade in Wares they used to trade when they were owned by the Paranid, or is it because they are Haulers/Super Freighters and maybe only take the trades when they can fill up their Cargo Space?

I just sended an Helios with MK 3 i boarded into Argon Prime and he immideatly tried to take the Silkworm deal so there has to be something wrong with the Ships :/ I am completly vanilla except for the Bonus pack, Advanced Complex Hub and extented Mission briefing however my game doesn't shows any modified and i doubt it has something to do with this.

Gregorovitch · Post by **Gregorovitch** » Tue, 30. Jul 13, 21:12

One other thing to check is that they haven't got stock in the hold they bought and got beaten to the deal over by an NPC so can't sell- sometimes that stops them - if so sell it manually and restart.

I'd be tempted to move the Argon Prime one to Power Circle so it can shift ecells to Three worlds and Antogone and the Rhonkar's Fire one to Family Rhonkar where there are 3 SPPs so it should shift ecells to Rhonkar's Fire and Thurrock's Beard.

If they don't, you'll be certain somethings wrong.

BurningMan · Post by **BurningMan** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 02:46

Nope their freight bays are empty and as i said even if there is a deal they won't take it. I left them on 10x seta for like 5 Hours and only one got promoted to seven.

I seriously think that there might be a Problem because they are bailed freighters and that they maybe can't trade wares they weren't trading before.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 03:29

At risk of having the crowd leap to the defense of the sacred cow, IMO the problem with your Mk3 traders is that they are Mk3 traders. Do a search for 'st/ut vs cls' and similar strings.

BurningMan · Post by **BurningMan** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 13:57

Timsup2nothin wrote:At risk of having the crowd leap to the defense of the sacred cow, IMO the problem with your Mk3 traders is that they are Mk3 traders. Do a search for 'st/ut vs cls' and similar strings.

I know that CLS is better than MK3, however there is something wrong with the ships seeing how they don't take deals that they should take. I have used MK3 traders often and they never ever have performed so poorly.

ajax34i · Post by **ajax34i** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 14:30

Unfortunately, there's not much we can do to troubleshoot, since the Mk3 script is like a blackbox with no configuration options. You're getting the "standby" mode not the "idle" mode, so theoretically it's working as intended.

The only things I can think of are:

- Check the ship's command console to make sure the race or station(s) are not set to red. This sometimes happens if the ship gets shot at but escapes.

- You've already checked that their cargo hold has room. I assume it can hold the type of ware you're trying to trade (XL type cargo?).

- Dock both ships to the same station and freight-exchange between them, so you can compare and see if there are any differences in the software extensions that are installed. These can get destroyed if the ship has been in combat.

- Instead of leaving them in space, dock them at a station THEN give the Start Sector Trader command and see if they still Standby.

- Make sure you still have the trained pilots in them. If you started CLS external or internal logistics on a ship with a trained Mk3 pilot, the trained Mk3 pilot will be gone, and you'll have the Apprentice CLS pilot instead.

- The enemies in sector could be the problem. The Helios is a TM, and perhaps the Mk3 script feels more confident in taking a TM out with enemies nearby, than taking a TS out.

- Immediately when you order Start Sector Trader, look at the info page for the ship. You should see it cycle through products before going to Standby. This at least would tell you that it's trying (and thus the script is working), but just not finding any deals or enemies are nearby.

BurningMan · Post by **BurningMan** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 15:34

ajax34i wrote:Unfortunately, there's not much we can do to troubleshoot, since the Mk3 script is like a blackbox with no configuration options. You're getting the "standby" mode not the "idle" mode, so theoretically it's working as intended.

The only things I can think of are:

- Check the ship's command console to make sure the race or station(s) are not set to red. This sometimes happens if the ship gets shot at but escapes.

Did that everything was alright with the Friend Foe settings (only Xenon were set to foe)

ajax34i wrote: - You've already checked that their cargo hold has room. I assume it can hold the type of ware you're trying to trade (XL type cargo?).

They are Demeter Super freighthers and a Caiman so they should be able to haul everything in the Universe except for statons

ajax34i wrote: - Dock both ships to the same station and freight-exchange between them, so you can compare and see if there are any differences in the software extensions that are installed. These can get destroyed if the ship has been in combat.

The Ships have all necessary upgrades installed i checked that.

ajax34i wrote: - Instead of leaving them in space, dock them at a station THEN give the Start Sector Trader command and see if they still Standby.

Also tried that but it didn't help. I also tried to dock them at a station where they should be able to make a deal, but nothing happens.

ajax34i wrote: - Make sure you still have the trained pilots in them. If you started CLS external or internal logistics on a ship with a trained Mk3 pilot, the trained Mk3 pilot will be gone, and you'll have the Apprentice CLS pilot instead.

I know that as i said they are lvl 6 MK3 traders and don't even have CLS software installed.

ajax34i wrote: - The enemies in sector could be the problem. The Helios is a TM, and perhaps the Mk3 script feels more confident in taking a TM out with enemies nearby, than taking a TS out.

Even without enemies in the sector they don't do anything and even if it were because of that it would say idle and not standby.

ajax34i wrote: - Immediately when you order Start Sector Trader, look at the info page for the ship. You should see it cycle through products before going to Standby. This at least would tell you that it's trying (and thus the script is working), but just not finding any deals or enemies are nearby.

This is the problem i think, they are not checking through wares it just flashes through the ware they made their last deal with and then goes straight to standby.

I really think it is because the TS are bailed and they still have some of their old scripts running that seem to block the MK 3 software. I will try to Home base them at a Station once i can cap a TL and then try to restart them or maybe i just start the CLS software and then run MK 3 again to see if that maybe resets their commands.

Baratheon79 · Post by **Baratheon79** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 16:09

When the trader's status is "standby" it just means they can't find any good trade opportunities within their jump range. In that case, I usually just move the trader in question elsewhere.

In my current game, I have 4 local traders running in different areas, with a jump radius of 3 to 5 (depending on the location), all homebased to a military outpost I've got in Gunne's Crusade (using Pirate Guild 3, so I can buy them though from the pirate shipyards added by that script - a trade dock or any complex hub would work just as well as a homebase). They mostly run around in capped/salvaged ships (a caiman, a baldric, a mercury, and a mistral). I check on them occasionally, but they never seem to run into trouble, even when they venture into pirate sectors, though most pirates are non-hostile in my game. Those that do decide to cause problems seem to find themselves facing the business end of a stolen Hyperion's main guns pretty quick.

I should mention that 4 mk3 traders don't make anywhere near the income of the open-loop weed/booze complex I've got in Split Fire (with 2 CAGs in mistral superfreighters bringing in energy). But they have built up a nice cash reserve in my military outpost.

I would suggest not using superfreighter-variant TS ship for mk3 traders, however, as they tend to be too slow. I realize you're making do with random ships you've captured, but it's something to think about. Slower ships are more likely to be beaten to good deals. Standard caimans and mistrals are good options, as they're reasonably fast. Another good (and certainly more resilient) option could be a TM with a decent cargo bay, like the Chokaro.

Imgran · Post by **Imgran** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 16:46

Set that one in Argon's Prime to Herron's Nebula instead, with a range of 1 they'll supply the facs in Argon Prime from mines and SPP's in Power Circle and the Nebula (as well as The Hole and CBSW IIRC), and funnel all those supplies into Argon Prime's facs.

When training an LT abundant supply is more important than abundant demand. You NEED to keep supply prices low in the limited area you're dealing with while the trader levels.

Once you can manage a range of 2, THEN shift down to Argon Prime and that'll allow you to fill more demand from the same suppliers.

If I'm training LT I start in power Circle and as my trader's range expands I move him steadily south. It works well enough.

ajax34i · Post by **ajax34i** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 16:50

Could be that they are captured and a script is running.

I don't have access to the game right now, but if you enable the script editor with "Thereshallbewings" and then turn on the "Show additional info", I think that shows you what scripts are running in the info page for the ship. You could, at least, compare the trader that works to the one that does not.

I don't have experience with scripting, and it's more of a S&M issue at this point.

BurningMan · Post by **BurningMan** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 18:59

ajax34i wrote:Could be that they are captured and a script is running.

I don't have access to the game right now, but if you enable the script editor with "Thereshallbewings" and then turn on the "Show additional info", I think that shows you what scripts are running in the info page for the ship. You could, at least, compare the trader that works to the one that does not.

I don't have experience with scripting, and it's more of a S&M issue at this point.

I tried this and it shows nothing out of the ordinary. I also just bought a Mercury and outfitted it with MK3 and it also failed to deliver Silkworms that were sold below average to an EQ Dock wich should be a deal an lvl 1 trader should be able to take.
Again my problems isn't that the sectors have no suitable deals there are ones, my problem is that my trade command software MK 3 seems to be broken and unable to find these trading opportunities for some reason.
I tried it on another save game that uses the same Game folder and the MK3 seems to work just fine there wich seems to be pretty odd :/

Sabrina Bergin · Post by **Sabrina Bergin** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 19:30

I would suggest then that the last usable save game folder is the one to use it's not uncommon for save games to get borked when scripts are installed.

Sabrina Bergin · Post by **Sabrina Bergin** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 19:30

sorry double entry deleted

BurningMan · Post by **BurningMan** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 19:34

shaun bergin wrote:I would suggest then that the last usable save game folder is the one to use it's not uncommon for save games to get borked when scripts are installed.

There are no scripts installed except for the Bonus Pack and the other save game i tried was from a different game start.

Sabrina Bergin · Post by **Sabrina Bergin** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 21:16

Unfortunate then:

It seems it must be related to an incomplete or defective save have you tried going back through your auto saves and salvage saves to find one that works in your current game ?.

BurningMan · Post by **BurningMan** » Wed, 31. Jul 13, 22:16

shaun bergin wrote:Unfortunate then:

It seems it must be related to an incomplete or defective save have you tried going back through your auto saves and salvage saves to find one that works in your current game ?.

Nope it never really worked on this game start.

joemancxl · Post by **joemancxl** » Sun, 4. Aug 13, 21:06

I think your key issue is that you expect a relatively low level trader to trade wares with an equipment dock, which only buys at exactly average prices. Higher level traders can do that more efficiently but I don't think level six-ish as you describe is enough.

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MK 3 Trader Problem [X3 Ap]

MK 3 Trader Problem [X3 Ap]